5 ms·

It’s about cultural values. We don’t respect grunt work. We only respect art. Our society’s values do not align with our society’s needs. I’d like to see mor

It’s about cultural values. We don’t respect grunt work. We only respect art. Our society’s values do not align with our society’s needs. I’d like to see more praise and recognition of plumbers, builders, and, well, people that keep the wheels of society moving. Instead, everyone must go to college and be some artist or otherwise high society. Trade schools are looked down on. And it’s hurting us. As a game developer that grew up in Seattle, what he says resonates with me.

sorry_outta_gas 5y ago
sure for a vague definition of "we"
verve_rat 5y ago
Fuck praise and recognition, you want more of this type of thing to be done? Pay them. Pay them more.
- Melatonic 5y ago
  The average plumber isnt looking for praise - they literally works with shit everyday. Also is any of this really ever the end workers fault? Pay a fair wage and people will do the work - but it still has to get organized higher up
- throwaway13337 5y ago
  Game devs are the lowest paid developers. And, in my experience, the most talented. Something is compelling us to do it beyond money. This is doubly true of careers in academia. Conversely, it’s quite smart to be a plumber or builder in Seattle today monetarily. We play down the role of cultural values in the choices people make. Very good builders might not exist today because of the lack of social incentive to get them into the right place. They'll work towards making yet another crud app.
- tormeh 5y ago
  AFAIK, plumbers are typically paid more than game devs.
danShumway 5y ago
> We don’t respect grunt work. We only respect art. The problem with Seattle isn't that plumbers aren't respected, it's political/economic in nature. It's NIMBYism and zoning laws and literally pricing workers into homelessness. I'd like to see more praise of plumbers too, but Seattle's problem is not a shortage of plumbers, it's rent. Particularly: > If you are happy that only 10 people play your game, fine, I guess. However, you should ask if you can't be bringing more people happiness with your limited time in the one life you get on this Earth. The idea that people making video games for 10 people are making so much money that they're skewing the local economy or driving out plumbers, the idea that the reason potholes aren't fixed are because workers are in short supply instead of, I don't know, government spending on public resources -- this is just so silly. People making games/music for niche audiences can't go out and fix potholes because potholes are on public roads. The city needs to pay people to do that. If blue collar workers can't afford to live in Seattle, the city needs to look at high-priced tech companies that are actually making enough money and paying large enough salaries to influence local economies and politics: ie, FAANG tech companies with massive audiences. > Give up your dreams of the easy life sitting and making art indoors. To be clear, nobody stays in indie game development because they want an easy life. The pay is nonexistent. If anyone is looking at indie art as a way of having a comfortable existence they should definitely stop doing that -- not because they're wasting valuable resources, but because actually they're going to be eating ramen for years and then picking up a normal job for a major tech company once they completely hit rock bottom, at which point the overvalued venture-capital space will use them to price all of the plumbers out of the city.

sorry_outta_gas 5y ago

sure for a vague definition of "we"

verve_rat 5y ago

Fuck praise and recognition, you want more of this type of thing to be done? Pay them. Pay them more.

Melatonic 5y ago
The average plumber isnt looking for praise - they literally works with shit everyday. Also is any of this really ever the end workers fault? Pay a fair wage and people will do the work - but it still has to get organized higher up
throwaway13337 5y ago
Game devs are the lowest paid developers. And, in my experience, the most talented. Something is compelling us to do it beyond money. This is doubly true of careers in academia. Conversely, it’s quite smart to be a plumber or builder in Seattle today monetarily. We play down the role of cultural values in the choices people make. Very good builders might not exist today because of the lack of social incentive to get them into the right place. They'll work towards making yet another crud app.
tormeh 5y ago
AFAIK, plumbers are typically paid more than game devs.

danShumway 5y ago

> We don’t respect grunt work. We only respect art. The problem with Seattle isn't that plumbers aren't respected, it's political/economic in nature. It's NIMBYism and zoning laws and literally pricing workers into homelessness. I'd like to see more praise of plumbers too, but Seattle's problem is not a shortage of plumbers, it's rent. Particularly: > If you are happy that only 10 people play your game, fine, I guess. However, you should ask if you can't be bringing more people happiness with your limited time in the one life you get on this Earth. The idea that people making video games for 10 people are making so much money that they're skewing the local economy or driving out plumbers, the idea that the reason potholes aren't fixed are because workers are in short supply instead of, I don't know, government spending on public resources -- this is just so silly. People making games/music for niche audiences can't go out and fix potholes because potholes are on public roads. The city needs to pay people to do that. If blue collar workers can't afford to live in Seattle, the city needs to look at high-priced tech companies that are actually making enough money and paying large enough salaries to influence local economies and politics: ie, FAANG tech companies with massive audiences. > Give up your dreams of the easy life sitting and making art indoors. To be clear, nobody stays in indie game development because they want an easy life. The pay is nonexistent. If anyone is looking at indie art as a way of having a comfortable existence they should definitely stop doing that -- not because they're wasting valuable resources, but because actually they're going to be eating ramen for years and then picking up a normal job for a major tech company once they completely hit rock bottom, at which point the overvalued venture-capital space will use them to price all of the plumbers out of the city.