6 ms·

> This is a whole another blog post, so I'll paint with broad strokes for now. My city, Seattle, is crumbling. We don't have the energy to maintain the roads, a

by dvt 5y ago

> This is a whole another blog post, so I'll paint with broad strokes for now. My city, Seattle, is crumbling. We don't have the energy to maintain the roads, and our bridges are literally falling apart. We can't even maintain what our grandparents built, let alone make any grand new projects. What in the world does this have to do with people creating art? Maybe the crumbling infrastructure is emblematic of poor leadership (N.B. we aren't allowed to blame Democrats for running Seattle into the ground in tech circles), corrupt politicians, poor city planning, etc. I get it, let's blame the musicians (what?)! The point is genuinely completely devoid of any through-line. > The reason a young, enterprising indie dev can churn out product is because that person is surrounded by cheap products made overseas in punishing conditions by people we never see. These are the delicious fruits of Empire. What a "college freshman" take on things, I wouldn't even know where to start.

ModernMech 5y ago
I really think this post is best read as the author trying to convince himself that he should abandon his own indie video game project.
- bloodyplonker22 5y ago
  He has probably already abandoned it and he's trying to convince himself it was the right decision.
- kzrdude 5y ago
  He's been doing those games for life (ok, for 25 years now), so I have a hard time thinking that he would quit now.
micromacrofoot 5y ago
I mean if you want to point at anything for blame... at least point at government spending. More than half of federal discretionary spending is on the military. Put a few % of that towards infrastructure... For reference .003% of the federal budget goes towards the national endowment for the arts'
- dvt 5y ago
  This is very convenient buck-passing. Local governments have a lot more impact on my day-to-day life than D.C. does.
  - Melatonic 5y ago
    Local governments also many times rely on federal government investment however.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    I'm responding to a blog post that's doing much more absurd buck-passing. I'm at least putting the buck in the same universe.
- SllX 5y ago
  I mean why have a local or State government if you’re just going to treat them as a convenient receptacle for tax money that originated locally with basically no responsibility over the local status quo?
throwaway13337 5y ago
It’s about cultural values. We don’t respect grunt work. We only respect art. Our society’s values do not align with our society’s needs. I’d like to see more praise and recognition of plumbers, builders, and, well, people that keep the wheels of society moving. Instead, everyone must go to college and be some artist or otherwise high society. Trade schools are looked down on. And it’s hurting us. As a game developer that grew up in Seattle, what he says resonates with me.
- sorry_outta_gas 5y ago
  sure for a vague definition of "we"
- verve_rat 5y ago
  Fuck praise and recognition, you want more of this type of thing to be done? Pay them. Pay them more.
  - Melatonic 5y ago
    The average plumber isnt looking for praise - they literally works with shit everyday. Also is any of this really ever the end workers fault? Pay a fair wage and people will do the work - but it still has to get organized higher up
  - throwaway13337 5y ago
    Game devs are the lowest paid developers. And, in my experience, the most talented. Something is compelling us to do it beyond money. This is doubly true of careers in academia. Conversely, it’s quite smart to be a plumber or builder in Seattle today monetarily. We play down the role of cultural values in the choices people make. Very good builders might not exist today because of the lack of social incentive to get them into the right place. They'll work towards making yet another crud app.
  - tormeh 5y ago
    AFAIK, plumbers are typically paid more than game devs.
WaxProlix 5y ago
> we aren't allowed to blame Democrats for running Seattle into the ground in tech circles I exist almost exclusively in tech circles in and around Seattle, and we blame existing leadership for tons of problems. This seems so weirdly divorced from reality that it smacks of ideologue speak.
- dvt 5y ago
  I work exclusively in tech circles around L.A. and even being remotely sympathetic to Republican views is anathema. San Francisco is ideologically way more entrenched even though, ironically, their city is a mess, much like Seattle.
  - WaxProlix 5y ago
    Again, that doesn't mirror my experience around any of those areas at all. I lived in LA and the bay area for almost a decade. Plenty of people wanted different tax structures, reduced regulatory burden on businesses (especially small businesses), reevaluation of existing expenditures over increased taxation, etc. Are there specific Republican views that you think are anathema?
    - e4e78a06 5y ago
      Not OP, but any of the following will immediately get you labeled as a Republican (said with disgust), racist, Trump supporter, or bootlicker: - support for deporting illegal immigrants - opposition against affirmative action / DEI programs with forced quotas - opposition against defunding police - support for stronger punishments for property crime - disdain for homeless encampments - disdain for the combination of higher taxes + increasing welfare programs - support for building more housing that doesn't require a years-long environmental review and low-income units (although this is changing) - opposition against redistributing local K-12 school funds state-wide - any suggestion that the higher poverty and crime rates seen in [insert race/ethnicity/sex/gender/religion/etc] could possibly even 1% be caused by culture and not 100% caused by systemic discrimination Any of these will immediately get you labeled as an alt-right nutjob even though I personally think many are quite reasonable positions to have.
skeaker 5y ago
I think the author has his whole idea backwards here. We should be looking to lift everyone out of having to work in sweatshops so that everyone can follow their passion, be it making games or other art. The author instead believes we should tear down everyone who has achieved their passion and drag them back to the sweatshops. Both scenarios might be "equal" in terms of how much labor gets done, but one is clearly worse than the other when it comes to quality of life.
- legostormtroopr 5y ago
  > We should be looking to lift everyone out of having to work in sweatshops so that everyone can follow their passion Except this is a fantasy - no ones passion is being a garbage worker, road worker, or plumber. They are hard dirty jobs. Hell, I'd even argue no one really wants to be a doctor or a nurse - because they are equally hard, dirty jobs - often dealing with death. Without the promise of payment, none of those jobs would be done. The reality is we need to better compensate "hard jobs", so that people strive to do them.
happytoexplain 5y ago
>we aren't allowed to blame Democrats for running Seattle into the ground in tech circles We certainly are allowed. And others are allowed to disagree with us, even harshly. Too often criticism is painted as being "shouted down". What we are not "allowed" to do is be sarcastic/snarky about it, which is, theoretically, good. That way lies political shitposting.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by dvt 5y ago

ModernMech 5y ago

I really think this post is best read as the author trying to convince himself that he should abandon his own indie video game project.

bloodyplonker22 5y ago
He has probably already abandoned it and he's trying to convince himself it was the right decision.
kzrdude 5y ago
He's been doing those games for life (ok, for 25 years now), so I have a hard time thinking that he would quit now.

micromacrofoot 5y ago

I mean if you want to point at anything for blame... at least point at government spending. More than half of federal discretionary spending is on the military. Put a few % of that towards infrastructure... For reference .003% of the federal budget goes towards the national endowment for the arts'

dvt 5y ago
This is very convenient buck-passing. Local governments have a lot more impact on my day-to-day life than D.C. does.
- Melatonic 5y ago
  Local governments also many times rely on federal government investment however.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  I'm responding to a blog post that's doing much more absurd buck-passing. I'm at least putting the buck in the same universe.
SllX 5y ago
I mean why have a local or State government if you’re just going to treat them as a convenient receptacle for tax money that originated locally with basically no responsibility over the local status quo?

throwaway13337 5y ago

It’s about cultural values. We don’t respect grunt work. We only respect art. Our society’s values do not align with our society’s needs. I’d like to see more praise and recognition of plumbers, builders, and, well, people that keep the wheels of society moving. Instead, everyone must go to college and be some artist or otherwise high society. Trade schools are looked down on. And it’s hurting us. As a game developer that grew up in Seattle, what he says resonates with me.

sorry_outta_gas 5y ago
sure for a vague definition of "we"
verve_rat 5y ago
Fuck praise and recognition, you want more of this type of thing to be done? Pay them. Pay them more.
- Melatonic 5y ago
  The average plumber isnt looking for praise - they literally works with shit everyday. Also is any of this really ever the end workers fault? Pay a fair wage and people will do the work - but it still has to get organized higher up
- throwaway13337 5y ago
  Game devs are the lowest paid developers. And, in my experience, the most talented. Something is compelling us to do it beyond money. This is doubly true of careers in academia. Conversely, it’s quite smart to be a plumber or builder in Seattle today monetarily. We play down the role of cultural values in the choices people make. Very good builders might not exist today because of the lack of social incentive to get them into the right place. They'll work towards making yet another crud app.
- tormeh 5y ago
  AFAIK, plumbers are typically paid more than game devs.

WaxProlix 5y ago

> we aren't allowed to blame Democrats for running Seattle into the ground in tech circles I exist almost exclusively in tech circles in and around Seattle, and we blame existing leadership for tons of problems. This seems so weirdly divorced from reality that it smacks of ideologue speak.

dvt 5y ago
I work exclusively in tech circles around L.A. and even being remotely sympathetic to Republican views is anathema. San Francisco is ideologically way more entrenched even though, ironically, their city is a mess, much like Seattle.
- WaxProlix 5y ago
  Again, that doesn't mirror my experience around any of those areas at all. I lived in LA and the bay area for almost a decade. Plenty of people wanted different tax structures, reduced regulatory burden on businesses (especially small businesses), reevaluation of existing expenditures over increased taxation, etc. Are there specific Republican views that you think are anathema?
  - e4e78a06 5y ago
    Not OP, but any of the following will immediately get you labeled as a Republican (said with disgust), racist, Trump supporter, or bootlicker: - support for deporting illegal immigrants - opposition against affirmative action / DEI programs with forced quotas - opposition against defunding police - support for stronger punishments for property crime - disdain for homeless encampments - disdain for the combination of higher taxes + increasing welfare programs - support for building more housing that doesn't require a years-long environmental review and low-income units (although this is changing) - opposition against redistributing local K-12 school funds state-wide - any suggestion that the higher poverty and crime rates seen in [insert race/ethnicity/sex/gender/religion/etc] could possibly even 1% be caused by culture and not 100% caused by systemic discrimination Any of these will immediately get you labeled as an alt-right nutjob even though I personally think many are quite reasonable positions to have.

skeaker 5y ago

I think the author has his whole idea backwards here. We should be looking to lift everyone out of having to work in sweatshops so that everyone can follow their passion, be it making games or other art. The author instead believes we should tear down everyone who has achieved their passion and drag them back to the sweatshops. Both scenarios might be "equal" in terms of how much labor gets done, but one is clearly worse than the other when it comes to quality of life.

legostormtroopr 5y ago
> We should be looking to lift everyone out of having to work in sweatshops so that everyone can follow their passion Except this is a fantasy - no ones passion is being a garbage worker, road worker, or plumber. They are hard dirty jobs. Hell, I'd even argue no one really wants to be a doctor or a nurse - because they are equally hard, dirty jobs - often dealing with death. Without the promise of payment, none of those jobs would be done. The reality is we need to better compensate "hard jobs", so that people strive to do them.

happytoexplain 5y ago

>we aren't allowed to blame Democrats for running Seattle into the ground in tech circles We certainly are allowed. And others are allowed to disagree with us, even harshly. Too often criticism is painted as being "shouted down". What we are not "allowed" to do is be sarcastic/snarky about it, which is, theoretically, good. That way lies political shitposting.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]