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Yup. Autopilot on aircraft is very different because pilots don't have to be ready to take over on a moment's notice. Of course they have to be monitoring the

by ummonk 5y ago

Yup. Autopilot on aircraft is very different because pilots don't have to be ready to take over on a moment's notice. Of course they have to be monitoring the flight but they can be generally assured that the autopilot won't decide to just fly into a mountain with only fractions of a second for the pilots to intervene.

dzader 5y ago
"Boeing instructed pilots to take corrective action in case of a malfunction, when the airplane would enter a series of automated nosedives. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings
- ummonk 5y ago
  Indeed, Tesla's autopilot behaves a lot more like MCAS than like an airplane autopilot.
- jgeada 5y ago
  And that is why the whole 737 Max fleet got grounded and none of those planes were allowed to be operational until Boeing put in place a fix for the problem. And most airlines ended up cancelling pending orders for the 737 Max and switched to a different brand that didn't play nearly as fast and loose with safety.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
laen 5y ago
There are moments a pilot has seconds to react and disengage autopilot. Example: Traffic Resolution advisories require a 5 second reaction time and 2.5 seconds for any follow-on reactions. This reaction time includes the time to disengage autopilot and also put the aircraft into a climb-or-dive. Studies show that a situationally aware pilot takes at least 2 seconds to start the reaction, and another second to achieve the proper climb/descent. There are other times on e.g. approach, or ground collision warnings with even narrower margins for disengaging autopilot. Pilots generally know when they need to be hyper-aware with autopilot and so do competent Tesla drivers. If there are issues with the name "autopilot" for Tesla, the same argument needs to be made for aircraft manufacturers.
- JaimeThompson 5y ago
  > If there are issues with the name "autopilot" for Tesla, the same argument needs to be made for aircraft manufacturers. If a drivers license required as much training as a pilots license then you might have a point.
- Someone 5y ago
  A sailboat autopilot is even simpler. The simplest ones maintain compass direction, but don’t compensate for drift due to water currents or side winds, or for the difference between magnetic and true north. An IMO important difference with pilots is that pilots are professionals that get trained and periodically retrained on how specific planes and their autopilots work. Tesla drivers, on the other hand, hear Tesla’s at times optimistic marketing, and may just learn how to switch autopilot on and off without understanding when to use it and when not to use it.
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > If there are issues with the name "autopilot" for Tesla, the same argument needs to be made for aircraft manufacturers. Pilots require extensive training (an re-training). The must meet certain criteria to even fly certain types of plains. And they have to go through additional training if they have to switch planes (going from Airbus to Boeing for example). So, if we're making "teh same argument" for Tesla, then Tesla needs all that to call its system an autopilot.
- ummonk 5y ago
  5 seconds (or the 2 seconds that pilots require) is a lot more time than you’re afforded to take action while driving a Tesla in autopilot. And when driving the Tesla you often won’t get a clear warning signaling that you have to take over and do something - it can fail silently and swerve straight into an obstacle.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  "Example: Traffic Resolution advisories require a 5 second reaction time" When the Autopilot swerves into a concrete wall for no reason, you will have 0.5 seconds left to live. Rwacting in the last 0.1 secons bwf9re collision will not save you - you must react in like 200ms. It is physically impossible to react in time to some autopilot mistakes, stop defending this idiocy. https://futurism.com/the-byte/tesla-drivers-autopilot-swerved-barrier-killed https://futurism.com/the-byte/tesla-drivers-autopilot-swerve...

by ummonk 5y ago

dzader 5y ago

"Boeing instructed pilots to take corrective action in case of a malfunction, when the airplane would enter a series of automated nosedives. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings

ummonk 5y ago
Indeed, Tesla's autopilot behaves a lot more like MCAS than like an airplane autopilot.
jgeada 5y ago
And that is why the whole 737 Max fleet got grounded and none of those planes were allowed to be operational until Boeing put in place a fix for the problem. And most airlines ended up cancelling pending orders for the 737 Max and switched to a different brand that didn't play nearly as fast and loose with safety.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

laen 5y ago

There are moments a pilot has seconds to react and disengage autopilot. Example: Traffic Resolution advisories require a 5 second reaction time and 2.5 seconds for any follow-on reactions. This reaction time includes the time to disengage autopilot and also put the aircraft into a climb-or-dive. Studies show that a situationally aware pilot takes at least 2 seconds to start the reaction, and another second to achieve the proper climb/descent. There are other times on e.g. approach, or ground collision warnings with even narrower margins for disengaging autopilot. Pilots generally know when they need to be hyper-aware with autopilot and so do competent Tesla drivers. If there are issues with the name "autopilot" for Tesla, the same argument needs to be made for aircraft manufacturers.

JaimeThompson 5y ago
> If there are issues with the name "autopilot" for Tesla, the same argument needs to be made for aircraft manufacturers. If a drivers license required as much training as a pilots license then you might have a point.
Someone 5y ago
A sailboat autopilot is even simpler. The simplest ones maintain compass direction, but don’t compensate for drift due to water currents or side winds, or for the difference between magnetic and true north. An IMO important difference with pilots is that pilots are professionals that get trained and periodically retrained on how specific planes and their autopilots work. Tesla drivers, on the other hand, hear Tesla’s at times optimistic marketing, and may just learn how to switch autopilot on and off without understanding when to use it and when not to use it.
dmitriid 5y ago
> If there are issues with the name "autopilot" for Tesla, the same argument needs to be made for aircraft manufacturers. Pilots require extensive training (an re-training). The must meet certain criteria to even fly certain types of plains. And they have to go through additional training if they have to switch planes (going from Airbus to Boeing for example). So, if we're making "teh same argument" for Tesla, then Tesla needs all that to call its system an autopilot.
ummonk 5y ago
5 seconds (or the 2 seconds that pilots require) is a lot more time than you’re afforded to take action while driving a Tesla in autopilot. And when driving the Tesla you often won’t get a clear warning signaling that you have to take over and do something - it can fail silently and swerve straight into an obstacle.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"Example: Traffic Resolution advisories require a 5 second reaction time" When the Autopilot swerves into a concrete wall for no reason, you will have 0.5 seconds left to live. Rwacting in the last 0.1 secons bwf9re collision will not save you - you must react in like 200ms. It is physically impossible to react in time to some autopilot mistakes, stop defending this idiocy. https://futurism.com/the-byte/tesla-drivers-autopilot-swerved-barrier-killed https://futurism.com/the-byte/tesla-drivers-autopilot-swerve...