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> Autopilot is a tool. You can miss use it, sure. But if you care about safety it's hard to match with what they offer. 1. It's not autopilot, by any measurabl

> Autopilot is a tool. You can miss use it, sure. But if you care about safety it's hard to match with what they offer. 1. It's not autopilot, by any measurable criteria 2. As the adjusted data clearl shows, it's not that hard to match it. And since you mention Volvo, they definitely match it. They are honest enough though not to call it "autopilot", or "full safe driving" or pin the plame for its failures on the driver.

sokoloff 5y ago
> It's not autopilot, by any measurable criteria It does seem quite comparable in capabilities to the actual autopilot in aircraft. And that’s what’s confusing to people; most don’t realize that an autopilot is a control used by a driver or pilot to reduce their workload. (As a pilot, I am still logging flight time as the “sole manipulator of controls” during the time the autopilot is engaged.)
- ummonk 5y ago
  The kind of environment that a car is in (and the kind of monitoring required by the driver) is much more akin to autoland than autopilot.
- watwut 5y ago
  And that "confusion" was created intentionally by Tesla. So that it is easy to pretend it was not deliberately pretending higher capabilities while giving yourself option to pretend you are not. You know like that claim about human being there just because of pesky regulations and laws. Not because human would be needed.
- mellavora 5y ago
  >It does seem quite comparable in capabilities to the actual autopilot in aircraft. including the system's assumption that the operator of the vehicle is doing so as a trained professional in that skill, including the extensive continuous training requirements required to maintain professional-level expertise?
ummonk 5y ago
Yup. Autopilot on aircraft is very different because pilots don't have to be ready to take over on a moment's notice. Of course they have to be monitoring the flight but they can be generally assured that the autopilot won't decide to just fly into a mountain with only fractions of a second for the pilots to intervene.
- dzader 5y ago
  "Boeing instructed pilots to take corrective action in case of a malfunction, when the airplane would enter a series of automated nosedives. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings
  - ummonk 5y ago
    Indeed, Tesla's autopilot behaves a lot more like MCAS than like an airplane autopilot.
  - jgeada 5y ago
    And that is why the whole 737 Max fleet got grounded and none of those planes were allowed to be operational until Boeing put in place a fix for the problem. And most airlines ended up cancelling pending orders for the 737 Max and switched to a different brand that didn't play nearly as fast and loose with safety.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- laen 5y ago
  There are moments a pilot has seconds to react and disengage autopilot. Example: Traffic Resolution advisories require a 5 second reaction time and 2.5 seconds for any follow-on reactions. This reaction time includes the time to disengage autopilot and also put the aircraft into a climb-or-dive. Studies show that a situationally aware pilot takes at least 2 seconds to start the reaction, and another second to achieve the proper climb/descent. There are other times on e.g. approach, or ground collision warnings with even narrower margins for disengaging autopilot. Pilots generally know when they need to be hyper-aware with autopilot and so do competent Tesla drivers. If there are issues with the name "autopilot" for Tesla, the same argument needs to be made for aircraft manufacturers.
maxdo 5y ago
The author is projecting his assumptions based on 400 people questioned. Is it fair. Most Cars volvo produced is not as safe simply because Volvo is still making most of the money on Gasoline car, and they are less safe vs electric. Do we need to create a screaming article "Vovlo is deliberately making money on old tech that kills people"? Again volvo is a premium brand, so they don't want to invest more in EV to make your car more safe. They also promote hybrid Cars that has highest chances to catch on fire compares to EV and regular ICE cars. But yeah, naming of an optional feature is so much more important compares to real tech, crash tests etc. That's a logic media is trying to put in our head. Don't think.
- ummonk 5y ago
  What makes you say gasoline cars are much less safe than electric?
  - nikau 5y ago
    Hollywood movie explosions
- oblio 5y ago
  > Again volvo is a premium brand, so they don't want to invest more in EV to make your car more safe. Dude, really? https://group.volvocars.com/company/innovation/electrification https://group.volvocars.com/company/innovation/electrificati...
  - maxdo 5y ago
    Volvo's plans all in the future, it's just a commitment. today is there in 2025, tomorrow web designer put another beautiful article with 2030. Gasoline cars is less safe to the same car with the same set of airbags just because of It's physics e.g. lower center of gravity, no engine in the front that can kill you during forward collision, battery at the bottom serve as a protection layer during other type of crashes. In fact tesla is about to release structural batteries cars, that will use battery as part of the cars body, makes it even more safe. Model Y with structural pack will be out in March 2022. Volvo at this moment promoting hybrids and ICE that doesn't have this features, because it's bloody business. And money is money. Just compare real actions of Volvo who claim one of the safest brand and Tesla.

sokoloff 5y ago

> It's not autopilot, by any measurable criteria It does seem quite comparable in capabilities to the actual autopilot in aircraft. And that’s what’s confusing to people; most don’t realize that an autopilot is a control used by a driver or pilot to reduce their workload. (As a pilot, I am still logging flight time as the “sole manipulator of controls” during the time the autopilot is engaged.)

ummonk 5y ago
The kind of environment that a car is in (and the kind of monitoring required by the driver) is much more akin to autoland than autopilot.
watwut 5y ago
And that "confusion" was created intentionally by Tesla. So that it is easy to pretend it was not deliberately pretending higher capabilities while giving yourself option to pretend you are not. You know like that claim about human being there just because of pesky regulations and laws. Not because human would be needed.
mellavora 5y ago
>It does seem quite comparable in capabilities to the actual autopilot in aircraft. including the system's assumption that the operator of the vehicle is doing so as a trained professional in that skill, including the extensive continuous training requirements required to maintain professional-level expertise?

ummonk 5y ago

Yup. Autopilot on aircraft is very different because pilots don't have to be ready to take over on a moment's notice. Of course they have to be monitoring the flight but they can be generally assured that the autopilot won't decide to just fly into a mountain with only fractions of a second for the pilots to intervene.

dzader 5y ago
"Boeing instructed pilots to take corrective action in case of a malfunction, when the airplane would enter a series of automated nosedives. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings
- ummonk 5y ago
  Indeed, Tesla's autopilot behaves a lot more like MCAS than like an airplane autopilot.
- jgeada 5y ago
  And that is why the whole 737 Max fleet got grounded and none of those planes were allowed to be operational until Boeing put in place a fix for the problem. And most airlines ended up cancelling pending orders for the 737 Max and switched to a different brand that didn't play nearly as fast and loose with safety.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
laen 5y ago
There are moments a pilot has seconds to react and disengage autopilot. Example: Traffic Resolution advisories require a 5 second reaction time and 2.5 seconds for any follow-on reactions. This reaction time includes the time to disengage autopilot and also put the aircraft into a climb-or-dive. Studies show that a situationally aware pilot takes at least 2 seconds to start the reaction, and another second to achieve the proper climb/descent. There are other times on e.g. approach, or ground collision warnings with even narrower margins for disengaging autopilot. Pilots generally know when they need to be hyper-aware with autopilot and so do competent Tesla drivers. If there are issues with the name "autopilot" for Tesla, the same argument needs to be made for aircraft manufacturers.

maxdo 5y ago

The author is projecting his assumptions based on 400 people questioned. Is it fair. Most Cars volvo produced is not as safe simply because Volvo is still making most of the money on Gasoline car, and they are less safe vs electric. Do we need to create a screaming article "Vovlo is deliberately making money on old tech that kills people"? Again volvo is a premium brand, so they don't want to invest more in EV to make your car more safe. They also promote hybrid Cars that has highest chances to catch on fire compares to EV and regular ICE cars. But yeah, naming of an optional feature is so much more important compares to real tech, crash tests etc. That's a logic media is trying to put in our head. Don't think.

ummonk 5y ago
What makes you say gasoline cars are much less safe than electric?
- nikau 5y ago
  Hollywood movie explosions
oblio 5y ago
> Again volvo is a premium brand, so they don't want to invest more in EV to make your car more safe. Dude, really? https://group.volvocars.com/company/innovation/electrification https://group.volvocars.com/company/innovation/electrificati...
- maxdo 5y ago
  Volvo's plans all in the future, it's just a commitment. today is there in 2025, tomorrow web designer put another beautiful article with 2030. Gasoline cars is less safe to the same car with the same set of airbags just because of It's physics e.g. lower center of gravity, no engine in the front that can kill you during forward collision, battery at the bottom serve as a protection layer during other type of crashes. In fact tesla is about to release structural batteries cars, that will use battery as part of the cars body, makes it even more safe. Model Y with structural pack will be out in March 2022. Volvo at this moment promoting hybrids and ICE that doesn't have this features, because it's bloody business. And money is money. Just compare real actions of Volvo who claim one of the safest brand and Tesla.