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>I am not a Tesla-hater though — I just thought it was odd that the company was playing quite so fast and loose with their safety claims. If you're still surpr

>I am not a Tesla-hater though — I just thought it was odd that the company was playing quite so fast and loose with their safety claims. If you're still surprised by this you've not been paying attention to how Telsa operates.

mdoms 5y ago
He never said he was surprised.
maxdo 5y ago
- simplyaccont 5y ago
  >Facts: Tesla was the first to introduce such wide range of safety features in every car they sold. They don't make safety a premium feature. They invest in own crash test facilities. Only Volvo is kind of on par. Volvo built their crash test facilities before Tesla came to existence.
- FireBeyond 5y ago
  > Facts: Tesla was the first to introduce such wide range of safety features in every car they sold. Please itemize these "wide range of safety features" for us that other manufacturers do not have or did not have until Tesla innovated them. > They invest in own crash test facilities. Only Volvo is kind of on par. Audi owns one, for just one.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - maxdo 5y ago
    Sure, https://www.tesla.com/safety https://www.tesla.com/safety https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KR2N_Q8ep8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KR2N_Q8ep8 Tesla roll out cars in generations. So just take a $40k Model 3/Y platform was introduced in 2017 and compare it with any car been introduced that year. My friend bought a BMW in 2019 for similar money, it doesn't have half of that. Maybe you can have them but you have to buy extra packages for extra money. Tesla don't sell safety features for extra price. The only extra feature is Autopilot. But hardware, camera's , lane departure avoidance, blind spot collision warning etc in every car. You can even take such a simple feature as forward collision warning system. When you drive it is super accurate it uses the same data and models from Autopilot to predict when there is a crash. If your slowing down dynamic is not good or the car in front/back change it dynamics it will warn you immediately. Only this feature saved me several times from collision. I'm not a good driver. As I said in 2022 there are many car brands that catching up in some cases they doing better. And this is good. Human is a bad, constantly distracted driver. Technology is the only way to make our life safer.
    - vel0city 5y ago
      Literally every safety feature listed on that site is on my 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe, which brand new was thousands of dollars less than a Model 3.
    - FireBeyond 5y ago
      Automatic emergency braking is a required standard feature in the US. Forward collision warning became standard in 2016 by at least ten manufacturers: Audi, BMW, Ford, General Motors, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Tesla, Toyota, Volkswagen, and Volvo. Without speaking to Blind Spot, my Audi does similar intelligent things. If you change lanes next to a vehicle or just in front of it, but you have a positive speed differential, it won't activate. If there is a vehicle in your blind spot approaching you but their speed differential to you is low, it will activate later. If there's a much higher speed differential (say they're in a HOV lane, and you're in a much slower regular lane), it will activate much earlier.
      - macintux 5y ago
        > Automatic emergency braking is a required standard feature in the US. Not currently; I just bought a 2022 Jeep Wrangler that doesn’t have anything of the sort.
        dsl 5y ago
        It is standard on the Cherokee and Compass. On the Wrangler it is part of the Advanced Safety Group with adaptive cruise control. I think it might have to do with false positives when off-road.
      - maxdo 5y ago
        It's not about how to calculate it. It' about how can you understand what's around. And Audi is not super good about it. Tesla is far better at understanding the context. This year they will switch to FSD stack. The car will not drive me itself. But security features while driver engaged will have a huge boost. And that will be available for any car that was released from 2015-17 with some minor exceptions. That's how security should be handled. And yes for these minor exceptions Tesla offers a retrofit.
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > Autopilot is a tool. You can miss use it, sure. But if you care about safety it's hard to match with what they offer. 1. It's not autopilot, by any measurable criteria 2. As the adjusted data clearl shows, it's not that hard to match it. And since you mention Volvo, they definitely match it. They are honest enough though not to call it "autopilot", or "full safe driving" or pin the plame for its failures on the driver.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    > It's not autopilot, by any measurable criteria It does seem quite comparable in capabilities to the actual autopilot in aircraft. And that’s what’s confusing to people; most don’t realize that an autopilot is a control used by a driver or pilot to reduce their workload. (As a pilot, I am still logging flight time as the “sole manipulator of controls” during the time the autopilot is engaged.)
    - ummonk 5y ago
      The kind of environment that a car is in (and the kind of monitoring required by the driver) is much more akin to autoland than autopilot.
    - watwut 5y ago
      And that "confusion" was created intentionally by Tesla. So that it is easy to pretend it was not deliberately pretending higher capabilities while giving yourself option to pretend you are not. You know like that claim about human being there just because of pesky regulations and laws. Not because human would be needed.
    - mellavora 5y ago
      >It does seem quite comparable in capabilities to the actual autopilot in aircraft. including the system's assumption that the operator of the vehicle is doing so as a trained professional in that skill, including the extensive continuous training requirements required to maintain professional-level expertise?
  - ummonk 5y ago
- ummonk 5y ago
  It wasn't much of an accomplishment for Tesla to introduce safety features across its lineup, when its lineup consisted of luxury cars. Today, other car manufacturers are standardizing safety features across their model lineups while manufacturing cars that are a third the price of the cheapest Tesla.
  - jliptzin 5y ago
    A third the price but still pouring disgusting fumes into our neighborhoods
    - ummonk 5y ago
      The disgusting fumes are almost exclusively from diesel trucks and very old cars. Manufacturing affordable (no, the Model 3 is not affordable) new cars helps take old cars off the streets and make our neighborhoods cleaner.
      - jliptzin 5y ago
        Those are just more disgusting fumes, I prefer no fumes entering the cabin of my car and into my lungs from the car in front of me
        avereveard 5y ago
        Funny, most of the pollution of modern cars comes from tires and brakes. Tesla may remove particulates from brakes, but any mild hybrid+ does.
        jliptzin 5y ago
        You are never going to convince me that a car emitting gray or black smoke out the back is somehow not any worse than one that has no emissions at all.
        5y ago
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago
  > But because other brands release millions of boring cars with 0 innovation they are not criticized. That's not actually why. It's because carmakers are huge advertisers. You get on their bad side, they pull their advertising. Tesla's advertising consists of Elon Musk's Twitter account, so Tesla gets the reporting the others would get if the authors weren't reliant on the subjects of those stories for their paychecks.
- rurp 5y ago
  > Tesla was first to introduce over the air updates of software and firmware. I want the controls on my car to constantly change out from under me as much as I want my miter saw and power drill to startle me with a new interface. Screwing with safety critical controls does NOT make people safer.
  - gnicholas 5y ago
    I would like OTA updates that are opt-in. That would be a happy medium between Tesla and traditional automakers.
    - rurp 5y ago
      I think opt-in updates are fine. I want nothing to do with them myself, but have no problem with others making a different decision.
    - kaba0 5y ago
      Big no. Every such update should require a complete re-licensing/safety and crash tests and what-not before they can be pushed. It is not a goddamn webpage where fking up the fonts will make it temporarily miss some icons.
- gnicholas 5y ago
  > Tesla has lots of measures to return distracted customer back to the driving as opposed to any car on the road 10 years ago Perhaps true, but I've seen more people asleep at the wheel in Teslas in the last 2 years (two) than the rest of my life combined (zero).

mdoms 5y ago

He never said he was surprised.

maxdo 5y ago

simplyaccont 5y ago
>Facts: Tesla was the first to introduce such wide range of safety features in every car they sold. They don't make safety a premium feature. They invest in own crash test facilities. Only Volvo is kind of on par. Volvo built their crash test facilities before Tesla came to existence.
FireBeyond 5y ago
> Facts: Tesla was the first to introduce such wide range of safety features in every car they sold. Please itemize these "wide range of safety features" for us that other manufacturers do not have or did not have until Tesla innovated them. > They invest in own crash test facilities. Only Volvo is kind of on par. Audi owns one, for just one.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- maxdo 5y ago
  Sure, https://www.tesla.com/safety https://www.tesla.com/safety https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KR2N_Q8ep8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KR2N_Q8ep8 Tesla roll out cars in generations. So just take a $40k Model 3/Y platform was introduced in 2017 and compare it with any car been introduced that year. My friend bought a BMW in 2019 for similar money, it doesn't have half of that. Maybe you can have them but you have to buy extra packages for extra money. Tesla don't sell safety features for extra price. The only extra feature is Autopilot. But hardware, camera's , lane departure avoidance, blind spot collision warning etc in every car. You can even take such a simple feature as forward collision warning system. When you drive it is super accurate it uses the same data and models from Autopilot to predict when there is a crash. If your slowing down dynamic is not good or the car in front/back change it dynamics it will warn you immediately. Only this feature saved me several times from collision. I'm not a good driver. As I said in 2022 there are many car brands that catching up in some cases they doing better. And this is good. Human is a bad, constantly distracted driver. Technology is the only way to make our life safer.
  - vel0city 5y ago
    Literally every safety feature listed on that site is on my 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe, which brand new was thousands of dollars less than a Model 3.
  - FireBeyond 5y ago
    Automatic emergency braking is a required standard feature in the US. Forward collision warning became standard in 2016 by at least ten manufacturers: Audi, BMW, Ford, General Motors, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Tesla, Toyota, Volkswagen, and Volvo. Without speaking to Blind Spot, my Audi does similar intelligent things. If you change lanes next to a vehicle or just in front of it, but you have a positive speed differential, it won't activate. If there is a vehicle in your blind spot approaching you but their speed differential to you is low, it will activate later. If there's a much higher speed differential (say they're in a HOV lane, and you're in a much slower regular lane), it will activate much earlier.
    - macintux 5y ago
      > Automatic emergency braking is a required standard feature in the US. Not currently; I just bought a 2022 Jeep Wrangler that doesn’t have anything of the sort.
      - dsl 5y ago
        It is standard on the Cherokee and Compass. On the Wrangler it is part of the Advanced Safety Group with adaptive cruise control. I think it might have to do with false positives when off-road.
    - maxdo 5y ago
      It's not about how to calculate it. It' about how can you understand what's around. And Audi is not super good about it. Tesla is far better at understanding the context. This year they will switch to FSD stack. The car will not drive me itself. But security features while driver engaged will have a huge boost. And that will be available for any car that was released from 2015-17 with some minor exceptions. That's how security should be handled. And yes for these minor exceptions Tesla offers a retrofit.
dmitriid 5y ago
> Autopilot is a tool. You can miss use it, sure. But if you care about safety it's hard to match with what they offer. 1. It's not autopilot, by any measurable criteria 2. As the adjusted data clearl shows, it's not that hard to match it. And since you mention Volvo, they definitely match it. They are honest enough though not to call it "autopilot", or "full safe driving" or pin the plame for its failures on the driver.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  > It's not autopilot, by any measurable criteria It does seem quite comparable in capabilities to the actual autopilot in aircraft. And that’s what’s confusing to people; most don’t realize that an autopilot is a control used by a driver or pilot to reduce their workload. (As a pilot, I am still logging flight time as the “sole manipulator of controls” during the time the autopilot is engaged.)
  - ummonk 5y ago
    The kind of environment that a car is in (and the kind of monitoring required by the driver) is much more akin to autoland than autopilot.
  - watwut 5y ago
    And that "confusion" was created intentionally by Tesla. So that it is easy to pretend it was not deliberately pretending higher capabilities while giving yourself option to pretend you are not. You know like that claim about human being there just because of pesky regulations and laws. Not because human would be needed.
  - mellavora 5y ago
    >It does seem quite comparable in capabilities to the actual autopilot in aircraft. including the system's assumption that the operator of the vehicle is doing so as a trained professional in that skill, including the extensive continuous training requirements required to maintain professional-level expertise?
- ummonk 5y ago
ummonk 5y ago
It wasn't much of an accomplishment for Tesla to introduce safety features across its lineup, when its lineup consisted of luxury cars. Today, other car manufacturers are standardizing safety features across their model lineups while manufacturing cars that are a third the price of the cheapest Tesla.
- jliptzin 5y ago
  A third the price but still pouring disgusting fumes into our neighborhoods
  - ummonk 5y ago
    The disgusting fumes are almost exclusively from diesel trucks and very old cars. Manufacturing affordable (no, the Model 3 is not affordable) new cars helps take old cars off the streets and make our neighborhoods cleaner.
    - jliptzin 5y ago
      Those are just more disgusting fumes, I prefer no fumes entering the cabin of my car and into my lungs from the car in front of me
      - avereveard 5y ago
        Funny, most of the pollution of modern cars comes from tires and brakes. Tesla may remove particulates from brakes, but any mild hybrid+ does.
        jliptzin 5y ago
        You are never going to convince me that a car emitting gray or black smoke out the back is somehow not any worse than one that has no emissions at all.
        5y ago
AnthonyMouse 5y ago
> But because other brands release millions of boring cars with 0 innovation they are not criticized. That's not actually why. It's because carmakers are huge advertisers. You get on their bad side, they pull their advertising. Tesla's advertising consists of Elon Musk's Twitter account, so Tesla gets the reporting the others would get if the authors weren't reliant on the subjects of those stories for their paychecks.
rurp 5y ago
> Tesla was first to introduce over the air updates of software and firmware. I want the controls on my car to constantly change out from under me as much as I want my miter saw and power drill to startle me with a new interface. Screwing with safety critical controls does NOT make people safer.
- gnicholas 5y ago
  I would like OTA updates that are opt-in. That would be a happy medium between Tesla and traditional automakers.
  - rurp 5y ago
    I think opt-in updates are fine. I want nothing to do with them myself, but have no problem with others making a different decision.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    Big no. Every such update should require a complete re-licensing/safety and crash tests and what-not before they can be pushed. It is not a goddamn webpage where fking up the fonts will make it temporarily miss some icons.
gnicholas 5y ago
> Tesla has lots of measures to return distracted customer back to the driving as opposed to any car on the road 10 years ago Perhaps true, but I've seen more people asleep at the wheel in Teslas in the last 2 years (two) than the rest of my life combined (zero).