8 ms·
Microsoft milks Casio for using Linux
- thedeuce 15y agoI would do this too. Hell if companies are going to lay down and take it all while giving your company money..DO IT! If these companies were all that concerned some of them would fight the claims, it's not like they are small guys who can't afford lawyers. So until they step up; I say go Microsoft! Always good to explore all avenues for revenue, they clearly employ the right people.
- rbanffy 15y agoI really fear the day when Microsoft, without any valuable products, becomes nothing more than a patent troll... An NPE with Microsoft's patent portfolio is something very, very dangerous.
- bergie 15y agoCringely thinks that will happen unless Windows 8 flies: We’ll start with Microsoft and Windows 8, which I’ll argue are going to be formidable competitors in the tablet space, primarily because it’s that or start spending all that cash on diversified investments to turn Microsoft into a Berkshire Hathaway. This is probably Ballmer’s last stand as a high tech CEO. http://www.cringely.com/2011/09/ballmers-last-stand/ http://www.cringely.com/2011/09/ballmers-last-stand/
- sliverstorm 15y agoLast stand? That implies a track record of failure, and last I checked Windows 7 was very successful.
- rbanffy 15y agoDefine "very successful".
- sliverstorm 15y agoWidely adopted? Not causing a mass Windows Exodus? Almost entirely supplanting XP? Sure, it didn't get the press coverage that OSX gets every time it adds a forgettable feature, but look around. If it's not a Mac and it's not a server, the smart money is betting it's Windows 7. FWIW I am typing this in Firefox on Redhat.
- rbanffy 15y ago> Almost entirely supplanting XP? Can people still buy computers capable of running XP without extensive tweaking? Last time I saw someone installing XP on a modern, post-Vista, PC the process included downloading stuff into usb drives so that the PC could use the network. Windows 7 sells because Dell, HP and Acer sell and the machines that were in service running XP had to break some day. Normal people use whatever their computers come with and almost nobody buys boxed Windows. Vista was an exception - it was so bad people preferred using XP, even if installing it took a whole day of boots and downloads. When OEMs start to integrate 8 into their boxes you'll see 8's adoption match OEM shipments very closely. Microsoft even declared Vista was very successful based on that kind of number. > FWIW I am typing this in Firefox on Redhat. I don't see what effect this has on your reasoning. You won't be "more right" because you don't use Windows.
- maratd 15y ago> Can people still buy computers capable of running XP without extensive tweaking? That has nothing to do with current hardware. I had to do that back in the day too. You people have been spoiled with Vista and Windows 7.
- rbanffy 15y agoSo, if you are perfectly happy with XP and don't want Win7, I assume it's really easy to buy a new computer and install XP on it, right?
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- pointyhat 15y agoThe products are, but considering the "dance monkeyboy" moment, he is a failure as a human being.
- technoslut 15y agoThere doesn't need to be a series of failures to predict the future. Both RIM and Nokia were very successful two years ago but anyone could see there were troubles ahead. With MS it's no different. PC growth is declining rapidly in favor of tablets and the consumer market is becoming far more important than the enterprise market. It's a direct attack on MS's core strengths.
- slug 15y agowell, some of microsoft alums seem to have become one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2809544 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2809544
- dramaticus3 15y ago> While Linux is supposed to be open source What an extraordinary statement.
- dmoney 15y agoIt's not a statement, it's a clause.
- brainless 15y agoIf Linux powers such large chunks of the Internet and many other systems, is this not an issue that would ultimately affect every human using such technology? All those companies who have signed, including Amazon, are paying an extra amount, no matter how small, and ultimately it affects how the end user is charged, right? Or am I reading this all wrong?
- fleitz 15y agoMaybe... Amazon doesn't sell a lot of commodities and non-commodity goods are usually priced by consumer surplus, rather than cost. (eg. You're paying $5.00 for a latte because of the convenience rather than the cost of the coffee + overhead) Also, whatever tech they are licensing could reduce costs for the consumer. (eg. it's cheaper to license tech from MSFT than to re-implement major portions of the linux kernel) The issue is muddy enough that you can make a good case either way.
- jwhitlark 15y agoThe main problem is that MS won't state what patents it believes are being violated, so the community can't evaluate that for itself. We just have to take their word for it. "No, really. It's for your own good."
- beagle3 15y agoThe first paragraph is golden, but this: > Also, whatever tech they are licensing could reduce costs for the consumer. (eg. it's cheaper to license tech from MSFT than to re-implement major portions of the linux kernel) Makes no sense. "license" from MS does not reduce the cost of implementation. The cases discussed in the article refer to paying MS to use Linux. There is NO WAY that this reduces costs for the consumer. They did not get anything from Microsoft except the promise not to sue.
- fleitz 15y agoLast time I checked lawsuits cost lots of money, this saves the consumer the expense of paying for the lawsuit. Whether the law should or shouldn't be this way is a matter for another discussion. The current reality is that getting sued for patent infringement can be VERY costly. Assuming Amazon is a reasonably rational economic agent they would probably choose the lawsuit if it had a lower expected cost compared to licensing the patent portfolio, or reimplementing the infringing code in a non-infringing manner. Thus licensing a patent portfolio reduces costs for the consumer, of course it could be argued that with out patents Amazon wouldn't have to pay, but the current situation is that we have patents.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- jsmcgd 15y agoSurely some organization at some point is going to have to start paying licencing deals for using Microsoft products which violate some other organization's patents (I'm looking at you Google).
- m0nastic 15y agoOne of the things customers of Microsoft products "benefit from" is being covered by their IP indemnity policy‡. For large enterprises deploying stuff with Microsoft kit, that's a pretty big benefit. ‡ http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/D/0/9D0A6265-A509-416C-80AE-BB6C0A9D1B99/IP%20Indemnification%20Policy.docx http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/D/0/9D0A6265-A509-4... (link downloads a DOC file, sorry, couldn't find it online)
- 0x12 15y agoThat's shades of SCO and I don't like it one bit.
- m0nastic 15y agoI think indemnifying your customers from IP lawsuits when they use your product/technology isn't a bad thing. It's the carrot at the end of the FUD. "If you buy our stuff, you'll be safe from someone suing." "What's that, still going to use Unix? Well you'd better at least buy from Novell, as they've signed an agreement protecting you from being sued." It's not "shades of SCO", it's the other side of the same coin.
- ZeroGravitas 15y agoHas there been any instance of this patent protection actually coming into effect? I would have thought this would just have led to multiple trolls targetting Microseft customers to access Microsoft's deep pockets. Since I've not heard of this happening I'm inclined to believe this is a hollow offer.
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- billybob 15y agoI wonder whether patent trolling like this isn't just driving businesses to move to countries with weak IP law.
- rbanffy 15y agoFor that to happen, countries with weak (as in "sane") IP law must also provide an environment companies can operate in.
- pmjordan 15y agoI don't think it helps to be located outside the problematic jurisdiction - as soon as you sell your products there, you are once again subject to the laws you're trying to avoid. Avoiding the United States as a market is probably more costly than just putting up with the "patent tax".
- rbanffy 15y ago> as soon as you sell your products there, It's not possible with hard goods, but with services, it looks like the way to go. If my company and my servers are based on someplace sane, it's not that I am exporting it to you, who lives in a crazy place, but it's you who are importing it from me.
- pmjordan 15y agoI don't think it's quite so clear-cut. If you're selling downloadable apps (like mobile or desktop apps) you're almost certainly liable. What about the JavaScript code you're "exporting" to your users? That runs in their jurisdiction.
- beagle3 15y agoUnfortunately, what matters is where you want to do your business, rather than where you are incorporated. And the patent supports (like MS) are better at exporting strong IP law than other business can do to use those weak IP laws.
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- nkassis 15y agoI thought the TomTom case was about FAT and not about linux itself. This article makes bold claims that it's due to Linux that Casio had to sign a deal. This is flamebait.
- majika 15y agoMicrosoft profiting from Linux by extorting companies who use it is just plain wrong. But then, show me a patent system that wouldn't permit this kind of behaviour. Software patents need to go. Microsoft is a prime example of why.
- WildUtah 15y agoshow me a patent system that wouldn't permit this kind of behaviour. There are about 40 first world countries, all with patent systems. Ridiculous software patent abuses seem to be limited to the USA.
- guelo 15y agoAlso 90%[1] of software innovation come from the USA. [1] Wild ass guess.
- guelo 15y agoTo the down-voters, I tried to Google some data and the best I could come up with is that 63% of the top 100 software companies are in the US [1]. That isn't 90%, but I said it was a wild ass guess, and there's no denying that the US is by far the biggest software producer. [1] http://www.softwaretop100.org/global-software-top-100-edition-2011-the-highlights http://www.softwaretop100.org/global-software-top-100-editio...
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- pointyhat 15y agoDon't the Mafia use tactics like this? It's a protection racket!
- niels_olson 15y agoCan someone explain what the technical basis for Microsoft's claims against Linux companies is?
- ineedtosleep 15y agoAre all these MS threads going to be trolled now with people incessantly spurting out visions of MS's doom? HN, you're turning into Reddit, except Reddit gives me a hide button and a collapse thread button.
- yason 15y agoSoon they can start giving Windows for free because they can charge patent royalties for using anything else.