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Israel was attacked pretty quickly after its founding.

littlestymaar 5y ago
It's way more complicated than that, but anyway for the past 30 years Israel has been at peace with their neighboring countries and isn't realistically being threatened (yes I know Iran talks a lot, but in practice they are completely unable to strike Israel, while the opposite isn't true, so it's not really as if the threat was meaningful). All that remains is a colonial war against Palestinian people to put hold on the entire region, based on a supremacist vision of what Zionism should be (and it's not what the founders of Israel had in mind when the country was formed). The Palestinians from the West bank are completely unable to defend themselves from the rampant colonization and Gaza is conveniently left unchecked in the hands of a terror group, who albeit causing little practical damage[1] exert enough terror[2] to keep the Israeli population in a mind-state of perpetual war. This is 1984 taken as an instruction manual. Honestly, it deeply saddens me that the Jewish people, after suffering two crimes against humanity in the twentieth century (the holocaust, then the mass deportation of Jewish people living in the Arab world, after the creation of Israel) are now involved a third time, now as the tormentor. [1]: a war in which you lose no military, nor infrastructure and only a handful of civilians isn't a war. [2]: hundreds of flying rockets that can blow up your house and will kill a dozen of your citizen is a powerful terror attack.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  I disagree profoundly. You say that it wasn't a war because Israel didn't lose too many people? Perhaps the aggressor should have thought about that before starting a war. Israel put a lot of effort in defending itself, so your premise isn't even correct. It is a perverse rationalization that doesn't even warrant a serious response. Frame it as colonial as you wish, the fact is a systematic prosecution of Jews in almost all surrounding countries. That was never caught up upon. Maybe start now. It would have been better to start yesterday, but it is never too late.
  - littlestymaar 5y ago
    > I disagree profoundly. You say that it wasn't a war because Israel didn't lose too many people? Perhaps the aggressor should have thought about that before starting a war. Its not a war, there is no state involved, just a terror group in Gaza, conveniently left in charge there, while curiously Tsahal is perfectly capable of shutting down any uprising in the territory they want to annex (the West bank), intriguing isn't it? Gaza isn't any harder to occupy than the West bank, but having Hamas as an enemy is just too convenient. (So convenient it would be too bad if Hamas collapsed [1]). > Frame it as colonial as you wish, the fact is a systematic prosecution of Jews in almost all surrounding countries. There's two different things: - The currently Israeli government is currently pushing a colonization project in the west bank (and it's not even hidden). - Jews living in the Arab world for centuries have been persecuted by Arabs in (in “retaliation to Israel's activity” as if those people had anything to do with any of it…). Sadly enough since those Mizrahi Jews fled to Israel, they have been discriminated against and are still somewhat treated as second-class citizens[2]. [1]: https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-netanyahu-israel-mossad-chief-doha-qatar-continue-hamas-gaza-money-transfer-1.8564993 https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-netanyahu-... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel#Sephardim_and_Mizrahim_(Middle_Eastern_and_North_African_Jews) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel#Sephardim_and...
    - raxxorrax 5y ago
      I agree that settling in the west bank is illegal, but hearing excuses for the prosecution doesn't lead to any fruitful discussion. If you think it justified, why should the settlers see it differently? If you are incapable of self-reflection there is no road to any peace. And of course there were states involved...
      - littlestymaar 5y ago
        There were states involved. But there has not been for more than 30 years now! Yet the current Israeli government wants his population to believe that they are still at war, still threatened but an outnumbering army of Arab people on the verge of slaughtering them all. It was the case for a good 40 years after the creation of Israel, but now it isn't. But the military-industrial complex and the far-right extremists won too much from the situation to let it go. No wonder Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated… The war is no more, but they want the citizens to feel as if it was still ongoing, as it is a great way to keep people under control, and to push their supremacist agenda. And leaving Hamas doing a bit of terror from time to time is a really efficient way to do so.

It's way more complicated than that, but anyway for the past 30 years Israel has been at peace with their neighboring countries and isn't realistically being threatened (yes I know Iran talks a lot, but in practice they are completely unable to strike Israel, while the opposite isn't true, so it's not really as if the threat was meaningful). All that remains is a colonial war against Palestinian people to put hold on the entire region, based on a supremacist vision of what Zionism should be (and it's not what the founders of Israel had in mind when the country was formed). The Palestinians from the West bank are completely unable to defend themselves from the rampant colonization and Gaza is conveniently left unchecked in the hands of a terror group, who albeit causing little practical damage[1] exert enough terror[2] to keep the Israeli population in a mind-state of perpetual war. This is 1984 taken as an instruction manual. Honestly, it deeply saddens me that the Jewish people, after suffering two crimes against humanity in the twentieth century (the holocaust, then the mass deportation of Jewish people living in the Arab world, after the creation of Israel) are now involved a third time, now as the tormentor. [1]: a war in which you lose no military, nor infrastructure and only a handful of civilians isn't a war. [2]: hundreds of flying rockets that can blow up your house and will kill a dozen of your citizen is a powerful terror attack.

raxxorrax 5y ago
I disagree profoundly. You say that it wasn't a war because Israel didn't lose too many people? Perhaps the aggressor should have thought about that before starting a war. Israel put a lot of effort in defending itself, so your premise isn't even correct. It is a perverse rationalization that doesn't even warrant a serious response. Frame it as colonial as you wish, the fact is a systematic prosecution of Jews in almost all surrounding countries. That was never caught up upon. Maybe start now. It would have been better to start yesterday, but it is never too late.
- littlestymaar 5y ago
  > I disagree profoundly. You say that it wasn't a war because Israel didn't lose too many people? Perhaps the aggressor should have thought about that before starting a war. Its not a war, there is no state involved, just a terror group in Gaza, conveniently left in charge there, while curiously Tsahal is perfectly capable of shutting down any uprising in the territory they want to annex (the West bank), intriguing isn't it? Gaza isn't any harder to occupy than the West bank, but having Hamas as an enemy is just too convenient. (So convenient it would be too bad if Hamas collapsed [1]). > Frame it as colonial as you wish, the fact is a systematic prosecution of Jews in almost all surrounding countries. There's two different things: - The currently Israeli government is currently pushing a colonization project in the west bank (and it's not even hidden). - Jews living in the Arab world for centuries have been persecuted by Arabs in (in “retaliation to Israel's activity” as if those people had anything to do with any of it…). Sadly enough since those Mizrahi Jews fled to Israel, they have been discriminated against and are still somewhat treated as second-class citizens[2]. [1]: https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-netanyahu-israel-mossad-chief-doha-qatar-continue-hamas-gaza-money-transfer-1.8564993 https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-netanyahu-... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel#Sephardim_and_Mizrahim_(Middle_Eastern_and_North_African_Jews) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel#Sephardim_and...
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    I agree that settling in the west bank is illegal, but hearing excuses for the prosecution doesn't lead to any fruitful discussion. If you think it justified, why should the settlers see it differently? If you are incapable of self-reflection there is no road to any peace. And of course there were states involved...
    - littlestymaar 5y ago
      There were states involved. But there has not been for more than 30 years now! Yet the current Israeli government wants his population to believe that they are still at war, still threatened but an outnumbering army of Arab people on the verge of slaughtering them all. It was the case for a good 40 years after the creation of Israel, but now it isn't. But the military-industrial complex and the far-right extremists won too much from the situation to let it go. No wonder Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated… The war is no more, but they want the citizens to feel as if it was still ongoing, as it is a great way to keep people under control, and to push their supremacist agenda. And leaving Hamas doing a bit of terror from time to time is a really efficient way to do so.