4 ms·

They? Do you not see how offensive that is to group together 1.7M people like that? When if that same sort of wording happens for almost any other situation, it

They? Do you not see how offensive that is to group together 1.7M people like that? When if that same sort of wording happens for almost any other situation, it’s called out as wrong, which it obviously is, very quickly. There is a common dog whistle and coded word sort of stuff especially recently with China. Instead of specify the authoritarian Govt and elite in China, one may say the Chinese used to be X but now they are doing Y to hurt every one. Or: North Korea was doing well before their famine and the Soviet collapse. Or better than the past 30 years. They screwed everything up and now do silly begging for food and silly missile presentations. Almost no North Korean had a say or any power. Even if most of the population has been tricked into believing the powerful In North Korea are doing fine when they are doing evil things. It’s clear that saying “they” is wrong. The responsible are the elite few in North Korea. —- If it isn’t clear. I believe Hamas sucks. Iran sucks for backing them.

nradov 5y ago
Palestinians literally elected Hamas in a democratic election. So actions by Hamas apparently represent the will of the people. That's hardly comparable to China and North Korea, which are authoritarian dictatorships where the governments were never elected.
- ocschwar 5y ago
  WHile true, it's worth remembering that Hamas has not submitted to new elections in quite some time.
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  Palestinians did that under desperation 15+ years ago. No elections since then. Would you call it democratic still if we didnt hold Senate, House, or Presidential elections in the US for the next 15 years?
littlestymaar 5y ago
> They? Do you not see how offensive that is to group together 1.7M people like that? Unfortunately, The far right Israeli actually do think that way, here's a quote from the current ministry of Interior, Ayelet Shaked > “This is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. The reality is that this is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started it.” And another one: > “Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.” [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayelet_Shaked https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayelet_Shaked
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  That's a sad quote.
LorenPechtel 5y ago
Obviously, I was referring to the people in power--it doesn't make sense otherwise. Note, however, that that leaves two choices: 1) They're responsible for their government. The plight of the people is the result of their action. 2) They are being oppressed by *their* government. Blame that government for their plight, not Israel. In neither case is Israel responsible for cratering the Palestinian economy.
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  - Are all the people in North Korea or Russia or many African countries responsible for their governments? The Gaza govt has not allowed any sort of elections or voting or voice of the people of any kind in 15 years. Add on to everything listed below and the population and people don't have enough consistent basic accommodations to be sure they are well versed enough to be able to properly decide or choose things like govt related things. - Gaza is being oppressed and heavily controlled by Israel and Egypt as well. Gaza's govt, "people in power", do not have the same power as almost any other government. - Your comment does make sense though. You used "they" three times. The way you used it is reminiscent of what I said it is reminiscent of. Your comment was a response to a response that was referring to "they" as all Palestinians, as was as sibling comment of yours. This comment appears to re-inforce that with your (1). -- Re: economy. From wikipedia: "An extensive Israeli buffer zone within the Strip renders much land off-limits to Gaza's Palestinians.[14]" _Note: Gaza is not in control of this_ "According to Al Jazeera, "19 human rights groups urged Israel to lift its siege on Gaza". The UN has also urged the lifting of the blockade,[17][18][19] while a report by UNCTAD, prepared for the UN General Assembly and released on 25 November 2020, said that Gaza's economy was on the verge of collapse and that it was essential to lift the blockade.[20][21]" _Note: seige, blockage are not something Gaza controls. It is Israel and Egypt._ "Due to the Israeli and Egyptian border closures and the Israeli sea and air blockade, the population is not free to leave or enter the Gaza Strip, nor is it allowed to freely import or export goods." _Same as the above Note_ "Israel maintains direct external control over Gaza and indirect control over life within Gaza: it controls Gaza's air and maritime space, as well as six of Gaza's seven land crossings. It reserves the right to enter Gaza at will with its military and maintains a no-go buffer zone within the Gaza territory. Gaza is dependent on Israel for water, electricity, telecommunications, and other utilities.[22]" _Same as the above Note_ "Despite the 2005 Israeli disengagement from Gaza,[22] the United Nations, international human rights organisations, and the majority of governments and legal commentators consider the territory to be still occupied by Israel, supported by additional restrictions placed on Gaza by Egypt." _Same as the above Note_

nradov 5y ago

Palestinians literally elected Hamas in a democratic election. So actions by Hamas apparently represent the will of the people. That's hardly comparable to China and North Korea, which are authoritarian dictatorships where the governments were never elected.

ocschwar 5y ago
WHile true, it's worth remembering that Hamas has not submitted to new elections in quite some time.
skinnymuch 5y ago
Palestinians did that under desperation 15+ years ago. No elections since then. Would you call it democratic still if we didnt hold Senate, House, or Presidential elections in the US for the next 15 years?

littlestymaar 5y ago

> They? Do you not see how offensive that is to group together 1.7M people like that? Unfortunately, The far right Israeli actually do think that way, here's a quote from the current ministry of Interior, Ayelet Shaked > “This is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. The reality is that this is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started it.” And another one: > “Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.” [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayelet_Shaked https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayelet_Shaked

skinnymuch 5y ago
That's a sad quote.

LorenPechtel 5y ago

Obviously, I was referring to the people in power--it doesn't make sense otherwise. Note, however, that that leaves two choices: 1) They're responsible for their government. The plight of the people is the result of their action. 2) They are being oppressed by *their* government. Blame that government for their plight, not Israel. In neither case is Israel responsible for cratering the Palestinian economy.

skinnymuch 5y ago
- Are all the people in North Korea or Russia or many African countries responsible for their governments? The Gaza govt has not allowed any sort of elections or voting or voice of the people of any kind in 15 years. Add on to everything listed below and the population and people don't have enough consistent basic accommodations to be sure they are well versed enough to be able to properly decide or choose things like govt related things. - Gaza is being oppressed and heavily controlled by Israel and Egypt as well. Gaza's govt, "people in power", do not have the same power as almost any other government. - Your comment does make sense though. You used "they" three times. The way you used it is reminiscent of what I said it is reminiscent of. Your comment was a response to a response that was referring to "they" as all Palestinians, as was as sibling comment of yours. This comment appears to re-inforce that with your (1). -- Re: economy. From wikipedia: "An extensive Israeli buffer zone within the Strip renders much land off-limits to Gaza's Palestinians.[14]" _Note: Gaza is not in control of this_ "According to Al Jazeera, "19 human rights groups urged Israel to lift its siege on Gaza". The UN has also urged the lifting of the blockade,[17][18][19] while a report by UNCTAD, prepared for the UN General Assembly and released on 25 November 2020, said that Gaza's economy was on the verge of collapse and that it was essential to lift the blockade.[20][21]" _Note: seige, blockage are not something Gaza controls. It is Israel and Egypt._ "Due to the Israeli and Egyptian border closures and the Israeli sea and air blockade, the population is not free to leave or enter the Gaza Strip, nor is it allowed to freely import or export goods." _Same as the above Note_ "Israel maintains direct external control over Gaza and indirect control over life within Gaza: it controls Gaza's air and maritime space, as well as six of Gaza's seven land crossings. It reserves the right to enter Gaza at will with its military and maintains a no-go buffer zone within the Gaza territory. Gaza is dependent on Israel for water, electricity, telecommunications, and other utilities.[22]" _Same as the above Note_ "Despite the 2005 Israeli disengagement from Gaza,[22] the United Nations, international human rights organisations, and the majority of governments and legal commentators consider the territory to be still occupied by Israel, supported by additional restrictions placed on Gaza by Egypt." _Same as the above Note_