5 ms·

Part of me has difficulties understanding why wearing a mask has had so much backlash. It is a trivial thing to do, and something people in many countries were

Part of me has difficulties understanding why wearing a mask has had so much backlash. It is a trivial thing to do, and something people in many countries were already doing pre pandemic. My experience has been that many people who are not in favour of masks think that they are being enforced for reasons other than public safety.

bell-cot 5y ago
Imagine that you were loudly proclaiming yourself to be an Irish Protestant, in a rather rough Catholic neighborhood in Northern Ireland. Or vice versa. No, it's not particularly rational. But when there are distrustful, angry, or hostile groups of humans involved, "rational" describes very little of how things usually go.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
andrewflnr 5y ago
I haven't fully figured it out, but yes, I think people doubt masking was really a public health measure. My hypothesis about what's going on in people's subconscious, based in part on my own thoughts: your face is a key part of your identity, and pressure or mandate to cover your face is in no small part a demand to cover your identity in the name of conformity. Some people react to this very strongly, if they're inclined to believe "the authorities" want to enforce conformity that way. Add the plain physical discomfort and some flip flopping from the CDC, and you've got a mess.
rkk3 5y ago
Masks in March of 2020 vs 2022 are kind of different. What is "Trivial" to you isn't to everybody... my covid-vaccinated ESL 5 year old has to cover their face & learn from a covid-vaccinated teacher who's face is covered all day. My child's speech, social & emotional learning isn't trivial to me.
- markandrewj 5y ago
  I should have said 'trivial for most people'. I am not referring to people who can't wear masks in public spaces for legitimate reasons.
  - aakresearch 5y ago
    But who decides which reasons are "legitimate" and which are not?
  - lupire 5y ago
    It's not just ESL folks. It's everyone they talk too also. Masks are a burden wherever people. speak.
nradov 5y ago
There might have been some reason for masks early in the pandemic but at this point there is no valid scientific or medical reason for most people to be wearing masks. It's pure politics and virtue signaling with no significant public health benefit. https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/ https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/
- smackeyacky 5y ago
  The non appearance of flu season says you are wrong.
  - nradov 5y ago
    Flu isn't a serious concern for most people, especially if they're vaccinated.
    - smackeyacky 5y ago
      Flu and covid are spread similarly. The masks slow down the transmission of covid and flu, so you don't die. The indication that flu transmission has virtually stopped is an indicator that the transmission rate of covid could be much higher than it is. Put on a damn mask and stop crying about it.
throwaway22032 5y ago
Because we can't see each other's faces. It's a step along the spectrum of why this textual interaction is not the same as a real world interaction. Another example would be the plexiglass screens in shops. Theoretically it's just a clear thing that blocks spit. In practice it means there's a psychological barrier which "others" you from each other. They're also physically uncomfortable. Describing this as "trivial" is needlessly provocative. You might not care about it, that's not the same as it being irrelevant.
krylon 5y ago
As a German, I find this particular strange among my fellow Germans, because - jokes and prejudice aside - we really like to regulate things and err on the side of caution a lot of the time. And often enough said laws and regulations are ignored if people perceive them to be overly restrictive, overly cautious, or just pointless. Sometimes people find out the hard way there was a very good reason for those (i.e. get seriously injured or killed), sometimes people get punished for ignoring them (ranging from fines to prison), but a lot of the time there are no real consequences unless something bad happens as a result. Drive a car without wearing a seat belt? Unless you run into a police officer or an accident, there are no negative consequences[0]. I suspect that part of the reason is the backlash people who refuse to wear masks or get vaccinated face from the rest of society. If you ride the bus or train without a mask, those who do may perceive you as putting them at risk and call you out on it. In fact, over here, you are required to wear a mask to use public transportation - if you don't, the bus driver will refuse to go, ask you to leave, and call the police unless you comply one way or the other. Same goes for pretty much any business. Someone who refuses to wear a mask may think it's just another one of those pointless rules, except that this time, everyone else is totally up in arms about enforcing it to the letter. I am certain there's a lot more to it, but I have a hunch this plays into it. It is very strange, though. I don't like wearing a mask, either, but even if I was seriously opposed to it, at some point I would just comply so I don't have to deal with people nagging me or bus drivers throwing me off the bus. [0] Of course, no one ever entered a car and thought, "Today feels like an accident-prone day, I'd better wear my seat belt just this once."
- throwaway22032 5y ago
  This is a good description of how I see it. There's also the social signalling effect, right. Imagine that you think that the (made up) Yellow Party are arseholes. They pass a law that makes it a legal requirement to wear the little yellow pin badge. Their reasoning is that advertising their presence is a good thing, because they stand for good in the world, and so by wearing their pin society improves as more people learn and are reminded they exist. Is it a huge imposition? No, it's trivial. You won't _physically_ notice it. But if you think the Yellows are wrong, then wearing a little badge is really going to piss you off. At best you might try to make parody of it - maybe you'll write "I hate Yellows" with the little yellow badge and wear that. Masks are like that. If you don't want to wear one for whatever reason, you're going to resent being forced. I make an active point of not wearing a mask because I think everyone is going to get coronavirus and that "slowing the spread" is no longer a meaningful concept. It's already spread, it's everywhere, almost everyone I know has had it and if that's too anecdotal you can look at the UK stats.

bell-cot 5y ago

Imagine that you were loudly proclaiming yourself to be an Irish Protestant, in a rather rough Catholic neighborhood in Northern Ireland. Or vice versa. No, it's not particularly rational. But when there are distrustful, angry, or hostile groups of humans involved, "rational" describes very little of how things usually go.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

andrewflnr 5y ago

I haven't fully figured it out, but yes, I think people doubt masking was really a public health measure. My hypothesis about what's going on in people's subconscious, based in part on my own thoughts: your face is a key part of your identity, and pressure or mandate to cover your face is in no small part a demand to cover your identity in the name of conformity. Some people react to this very strongly, if they're inclined to believe "the authorities" want to enforce conformity that way. Add the plain physical discomfort and some flip flopping from the CDC, and you've got a mess.

rkk3 5y ago

Masks in March of 2020 vs 2022 are kind of different. What is "Trivial" to you isn't to everybody... my covid-vaccinated ESL 5 year old has to cover their face & learn from a covid-vaccinated teacher who's face is covered all day. My child's speech, social & emotional learning isn't trivial to me.

markandrewj 5y ago
I should have said 'trivial for most people'. I am not referring to people who can't wear masks in public spaces for legitimate reasons.
- aakresearch 5y ago
  But who decides which reasons are "legitimate" and which are not?
- lupire 5y ago
  It's not just ESL folks. It's everyone they talk too also. Masks are a burden wherever people. speak.

nradov 5y ago

There might have been some reason for masks early in the pandemic but at this point there is no valid scientific or medical reason for most people to be wearing masks. It's pure politics and virtue signaling with no significant public health benefit. https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/ https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/

smackeyacky 5y ago
The non appearance of flu season says you are wrong.
- nradov 5y ago
  Flu isn't a serious concern for most people, especially if they're vaccinated.
  - smackeyacky 5y ago
    Flu and covid are spread similarly. The masks slow down the transmission of covid and flu, so you don't die. The indication that flu transmission has virtually stopped is an indicator that the transmission rate of covid could be much higher than it is. Put on a damn mask and stop crying about it.

throwaway22032 5y ago

Because we can't see each other's faces. It's a step along the spectrum of why this textual interaction is not the same as a real world interaction. Another example would be the plexiglass screens in shops. Theoretically it's just a clear thing that blocks spit. In practice it means there's a psychological barrier which "others" you from each other. They're also physically uncomfortable. Describing this as "trivial" is needlessly provocative. You might not care about it, that's not the same as it being irrelevant.

krylon 5y ago

As a German, I find this particular strange among my fellow Germans, because - jokes and prejudice aside - we really like to regulate things and err on the side of caution a lot of the time. And often enough said laws and regulations are ignored if people perceive them to be overly restrictive, overly cautious, or just pointless. Sometimes people find out the hard way there was a very good reason for those (i.e. get seriously injured or killed), sometimes people get punished for ignoring them (ranging from fines to prison), but a lot of the time there are no real consequences unless something bad happens as a result. Drive a car without wearing a seat belt? Unless you run into a police officer or an accident, there are no negative consequences[0]. I suspect that part of the reason is the backlash people who refuse to wear masks or get vaccinated face from the rest of society. If you ride the bus or train without a mask, those who do may perceive you as putting them at risk and call you out on it. In fact, over here, you are required to wear a mask to use public transportation - if you don't, the bus driver will refuse to go, ask you to leave, and call the police unless you comply one way or the other. Same goes for pretty much any business. Someone who refuses to wear a mask may think it's just another one of those pointless rules, except that this time, everyone else is totally up in arms about enforcing it to the letter. I am certain there's a lot more to it, but I have a hunch this plays into it. It is very strange, though. I don't like wearing a mask, either, but even if I was seriously opposed to it, at some point I would just comply so I don't have to deal with people nagging me or bus drivers throwing me off the bus. [0] Of course, no one ever entered a car and thought, "Today feels like an accident-prone day, I'd better wear my seat belt just this once."

throwaway22032 5y ago
This is a good description of how I see it. There's also the social signalling effect, right. Imagine that you think that the (made up) Yellow Party are arseholes. They pass a law that makes it a legal requirement to wear the little yellow pin badge. Their reasoning is that advertising their presence is a good thing, because they stand for good in the world, and so by wearing their pin society improves as more people learn and are reminded they exist. Is it a huge imposition? No, it's trivial. You won't _physically_ notice it. But if you think the Yellows are wrong, then wearing a little badge is really going to piss you off. At best you might try to make parody of it - maybe you'll write "I hate Yellows" with the little yellow badge and wear that. Masks are like that. If you don't want to wear one for whatever reason, you're going to resent being forced. I make an active point of not wearing a mask because I think everyone is going to get coronavirus and that "slowing the spread" is no longer a meaningful concept. It's already spread, it's everywhere, almost everyone I know has had it and if that's too anecdotal you can look at the UK stats.