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It’s not serious at all imho. People roll stop signs all the time, it’s part of driving culture. If you feel obligated to obey the letter of every driving law y
by valine 5y ago
It’s not serious at all imho. People roll stop signs all the time, it’s part of driving culture. If you feel obligated to obey the letter of every driving law you could have turned it off in settings.
Tesla also has an option to override the speed limit, you want to remove that too?
- acdha 5y agoPeople are also killed or injured by drivers all of the time, too. Remember when the selling point of AVs was that they’d reducr the ~40k / 300k Americans so impacted annually? Telling manufacturers that it’s okay to ignore laws if it gets you there faster will have the opposite effect.
- pmorici 5y agoSafety is measured in accidents per mile driven, lower being better. While there maybe a loose correlation strict obedience to the law is not in itself a measure of safety.
- acdha 5y agoThat metric is misleading since it’s skewed by highway driving where people cover lots of mileage with far fewer points of contention. A better metric would be something like operating time but even there you’d probably want more nuance since different environments have different safety characteristics (someone stuck in traffic on the freeway just doesn’t have as many things to get right as a driver on a city street even if they’re both averaging 5mph). The law actually does have a fairly strong correlation with safety — this is the basis of the claims that something over 90% of collisions are due to driver error – but there is a growing recognition that it’s not enough, and design changes to streets and cars are needed to reduce the number of times where obedience to the law is the only thing protecting someone else.
- pmorici 5y agoYou can use whatever denominator you want but blind obedience to the law isn’t ever going to be a measure of safety.
- Xylakant 5y ago> Tesla also has an option to override the speed limit, you want to remove that too? Yes. The Alternative is to encode “break the law” in software and that makes for a very bad option. Stick to the law, computer.
- judge2020 5y agoThe human driver is the one that told the car to disobey the stop sign[0]. Should every cruise control on every car with speed limit detection forbid the cruise/adaptive cruise to go above the speed limit? 0: the chill setting doesn't roll stop signs https://twitter.com/cooperlund/status/1488549356873695232?s=20&t=wpGxPKT1enE2q-uAyh1IbA https://twitter.com/cooperlund/status/1488549356873695232?s=...
- Xylakant 5y ago> Should every cruise control on every car with speed limit detection forbid the cruise/adaptive cruise to go above the speed limit? Certainly. Why should cruise control be set to above speed limit? Adaptive cruise control should reduce speed to remain within legal boundaries.
- valine 5y agoSpeed limits change, signs are obstructed, some speed limits are only valid for certain times of day. There’s plenty of legal reasons to override the posted speed limit.
- Xylakant 5y agoDrive on manual then, if your computer is not clever enough.
- chipotle_coyote 5y agoI have a car with adaptive cruise control and speed limit detection, and this would absolutely drive me nuts. Not for any philosophical reasons, but because speed limit detection is fallible. On the expressway my apartment is a block away from, which has a speed limit of 50 mph, my car fairly frequently tells me the speed limit is actually 30. It's fairly common for it to read speed limit signs that have conditions on them -- only in effect certain hours, or during school hours, or when light is flashing, or if you're driving a truck -- and incorrectly assume that's the speed limit. Maybe you'd be perfectly happy with "if you don't want the cruise control to make mistakes, just never use it, because gosh darn it, that's better than allowing people to set the adaptive cruise control five miles an hour over the speed limit like they've been able to do with non-adaptive cruise control since it was a thing." I would not, and I would argue I am not the one taking an unreasonable stance.
- gyc 5y ago> People roll stop signs all the time Those people are called bad drivers.
- changoplatanero 5y agono i don't think so. i think if you tried to strictly obey the law at all stop signs you would have a lot of trouble
- smeyer 5y agoWhen does obeying stop signs cause a lot of trouble?
- notch656a 5y agoSpread out over millions of drivers, it can cause many lifetimes worth of time lost from wasteful and inefficient practices, more damage to transmissions and driveshaft from stop-and-go, and increased environment destroying pollution.
- hunterb123 5y agoJust stop at the stop sign so you don't kill a random pedestrian you didn't see while California coasting.
- Teever 5y ago> It’s not serious at all imho. People roll stop signs all the time, it’s part of driving culture This is a terrible line of reasoning. If Tesla ever releases their vaporware humanoid bot would you expect them to program it to rape women in cultures where women rape is part of the culture?
- valine 5y agoI’m gonna go out on a limb and say that rolling stop signs is not a slippery slope to robot rapists.
- Teever 5y agoI think you're right. Programming a several ton machine to disregard laws and potentially kill many pedestrians without warning isn't really comparable to programming a machine to rape -- it's unfathomable worse. I've worked in factories and the idea that a car company can release a machine onto the streets that wouldn't be allowed anywhere near a factory floor is flabbergasting. If a company tried to release a product that had this safety profile in a factory setting the governments and unions would be all over them. The fact that some jackass yokel or senile old lady routinely roll through stop signs daily doesn't justify Tesla releasing a product that does the same.
- valine 5y agoEquating rolling stops to rape has to be the worst argument against FSD I’ve ever heard. I’m honestly at a loss for words. Safely proceeding through an intersection without coming to a complete stop hurts nothing, except maybe the feelings of traffic law puritans.
- caf 5y agoIf a company tried to release a product that had this safety profile in a factory setting the governments and unions would be all over them. I think the same is probably true of cars/trucks in general.
- beepbooptheory 5y agoA tingling feeling that this general argument will become very popular and determining in the future...
- TheCoelacanth 5y agoYes, and not only that, Elon Musk should be in prison for vehicular homicide. If a human chooses to speed and kills someone as a result, they are going to jail. Tesla has willfully chosen to violate traffic laws resulting in numerous deaths. Where is the accountability?
- rsj_hn 5y agoI'd normally disagree since most of these systems ask you to keep paying attention or keep your hands on the wheel and they make it clear that this is assistive technology and not a replacement for an alert, licensed, driver being ultimately in control. But Elon's statements, and calling it "fully self driving", is really asking for a lawsuit or legal trouble. It's incredibly irresponsible and reckless, and also is the one big negative on an otherwise pretty awesome car. I really wish we could divorce all the self-driving/big brother electronic stuff from electric cars, and make available a dumb electric car.
- TheCoelacanth 5y agoThe idea that a driver can anticipate when a self-driving car is going to fuck up and do anything to prevent it is bullshit and the charlatans pushing these cars know it. These cars need to be taken off the roads until they can safely drive unattended.
- rsj_hn 5y ago> The idea that a driver can anticipate when a self-driving car is going to fuck up and do anything to prevent it is bullshit and the charlatans pushing these cars know it. There is no factual basis for this claim. Cruise control and adaptive cruise control have been in use for a long time, require this type of attention, and are safe to use.