23 ms·

Bottles – Run Windows software and games on Linux

174 points by maydemir 5y ago

WaxProlix 5y ago
Recently posted (~1.5mo ago) with 237 comments. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29612976 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29612976
capableweb 5y ago
More fitting title would be "Easily manage wineprefix using environments" or "Easily manage wine prefixes in a new way" as this is just using Wine, which is what actually does the "Run Windows software and games on Linux" (current title) part. If anyone has experience, and since the repository doesn't mention it, how is Bottles different from let's say Lutris, Q4Wine and PlayOnLinux that already exists and does something similar?
- azalemeth 5y ago
  I find the lutris is actually a pretty excellent experience. Most games have a method to install themselves with it, it integrates nicely with my gog library, and it really does just work. You can edit the prefix dosdevices to deny access to the filesystem outside of the prefix.
- WaxProlix 5y ago
  It's a little "cleaner" than Lutris, but lacks the ecosystem of init scripts afaict.
  - capableweb 5y ago
    "Cleaner" in what way? The UI? The workflow? How it deals with things on disk? Resource-usage-wise?
    - WaxProlix 5y ago
      UI, and the way it presents options for your various wine settings (imo).
- outworlder 5y ago
  Not everyone understands what a 'wineprefix' even is.
  - Normal_gaussian 5y ago
    Further to the point, I would hazard that the majority of linux users don't use wine because its too complex to justify the effort. Very few users for this want to know how they would configure wine to do the same thing, they just want to 'run windows software and games on linux'.
    - 6LLvveMx2koXfwn 5y ago
      I don't use Wine as there is no hole in my software landscape that an exclusively Windows application will fill.
    - shrimp_emoji 5y ago
      This. I've been using Linux for years, and the last time I had to mess with Wine prefixes I was super confused and it ended up not working (of course). :p CrossOver and Proton ftw.
    - tvb12 5y ago
      I do the opposite, but for the exact same reason. I couldn't figure out how to use Lutris at all when I first installed Linux, but I happened upon a very detailed guide for setting up a wine prefix (it's just a folder) for the game I was installing. Now when I install a new game I mostly just scroll back through my shell history to see what I did back then. I just opened Lutris for the first time since then and I think I can see how to use it now. But I'll probably stick to my current ways because it works and really all of it's a pain anyway. Lutris is still invaluable for peeking through the installer scripts, though.
  - 0x6c6f6c 5y ago
    That's fair. But even the quick description of the project is "Easily manage wineprefix using environments".
  - 5y ago
- gpderetta 5y ago
  AFAIK "bottle" is just a commonly used alias for a wine prefix. It predates this project.
smoldesu 5y ago
If you intend to use this, reach for the AppImage version. The AUR installation script appears to be broken, and the Flatpak version of the app is feature-incomplete (and, yunno, a Flatpak).
- ghostly_s 5y ago
  The download page says of Flatpak: > This is the most supported and tested release of Bottles. and AppImage: > AppImage is broken, we are investigating, please use Flatpak in the meantime.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    Parent is right though: Flatpak version doesn't allow the creation of .desktop files for Windows applications. It's a mysteriously silly decision, as you don't even get the option even if you manually give the flatpak the correct permissions. Even worse: a bug in the Flatpak version prevents the launching of Windows applications directly from the commandline, so you can't even manually create .desktop files for it!
- marcodiego 5y ago
  I use the flatpak version. What am I losing?
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Unstable FS APIs, obfuscated data storage directories, and the app itself cannot generate launch shortcuts for any of your bottled programs.
- ijlx 5y ago
  > and, yunno, a Flatpak What's wrong with Flatpak? I've had fewer problems with flatpak than with AppImage personally.
  - ddtaylor 5y ago
    Some peoples opinion of Flatpak has been heavily warped by websites like FlatKill.org
fouc 5y ago
Is there an OSS equivalent of this for MacOS?
- IncRnd 5y ago
  There are several. See https://wiki.winehq.org/Third_Party_Applications https://wiki.winehq.org/Third_Party_Applications
collegeburner 5y ago
How does it compare with Crossover? Crossover is the only software I ever used where new MS Office works.
- AtlasBarfed 5y ago
  Crossover is the commercial version of WINE, which this is using.
  - sa1 5y ago
    It's not just that, it is also a prefix manager, which this is competing with.
    - AtlasBarfed 5y ago
      This is a strange HN post (the parent, not yours). I recall playing with bottles and prefixes ... 10 years ago I think? Back when I was in my emulation craze and wanted to setup a huge swathe of games with WINE.
ddtaylor 5y ago
Lutris, PlayOnLinux, Proton, etc. are all really cool. But, if you value your time and security, just keep a dedicated Windows system for gaming. I keep all the things I actually care about or don't want stolen on my Linux system with full drive encryption and I keep a gaming PC that has absolutely nothing I care about on it. The Windows system is never allowed to access my email, credit cards, or anything I care about in any way. The small price I pay for having to manually type a Steam authentication code from my phone into the gaming PC is worth it to never have to worry about the insane level of insecurity and bugs from the gaming sphere. The amount of RCE in gaming is pretty bad. And, you know, sometimes your friends message you and want to play a game that is new and from a developer nobody can really trust. Combine that with the fact that the first thing almost every game does is phone home to try and download new executable content and IMO you would be irresponsible to keep your important documents/credentials on a system that is also used for gaming.
- badsectoracula 5y ago
  > if you value your time and security, just keep a dedicated Windows system for gaming Not everyone has the space and money for this. In fact most people don't and when you buy a powerful PC for games you most likely also want to use it for your other PC tasks too - especially if you are a developer. Even if one has both the space and money, they may just not want to "task switch" between different machines (e.g. i do have a bunch of computers in my place but 99% of the time i use just one). Also switching between games and work in a different virtual desktop or whatever is way faster and more convenient than even rolling your chair to some other desk to another PC. > I keep all the things I actually care about or don't want stolen on my Linux system with full drive encryption and I keep a gaming PC that has absolutely nothing I care about on it. The Windows system is never allowed to access my email, credit cards, or anything I care about in any way. Neat, but the same applies if you are running games under Wine since everything is running under Linux and not Windows. You do not even need to have Windows installed. If you are too paranoid to even touch an EXE because it might access other stuff in your home directory you can run the games under a different user with access only to that user's files. > worry about the insane level of insecurity and bugs from the gaming sphere. The amount of RCE in gaming is pretty bad.And, you know, sometimes your friends message you and want to play a game that is new and from a developer nobody can really trust. If you do not trust a developer it is much easier and safer to not download and run the game. If there is any issue with the game, it'll be quickly figured out. It is not any different than a game targeting Linux or really any other piece of software. > Combine that with the fact that the first thing almost every game does is phone home to try and download new executable content and IMO you would be irresponsible to keep your important documents/credentials on a system that is also used for gaming. This is what pretty much EVERY software - game related or not - for pretty much EVERY OS that has some form of automatic updates does! Singling out Windows games is a bit of a double standard when your browser could be updated right tomorrow with a brand new bug that enables sites to access your SSH keys (AFAIK this has actually happened with Firefox on Linux). If anything, at least if you are playing singleplayer games, it is much easier to keep games to a known well working version when you stick with DRM-free games like those you can buy from GOG, Zoom Platform, GamersGate (not all are DRM-free there but there is a filter), Humble Bundle (similar case, not all are DRM-free), etc instead of Steam. Though even if you stick with Steam, i doubt Valve (or any other game store) wants to distribute actual malware from their service and things will either be fixed or removed.
Snetry 5y ago
The best part of Bottles for those that like to tinker and contribute is their installer format. Compared to alternatives like Lutris is nice to use and has little redundancy
qwerty456127 5y ago
I always disliked the concept of bottles as offered by CrossOver and probably the alternatives. I strongly prefer to have a single Windows subsystem with all the relevant DLLs installed and well-integrated with my Linux environment. Perhaps I never tried any particularly weird Windows apps/games but having them all in just one well-tweaked default "wineprefix" never caused a problem for me - apparently they don't conflict so unnecessary isolation means just unnecessary duplication of files and effort.
raffraffraff 5y ago
I use wine every single day, but never for gaming. I'm a 100% Linux user for over 15 years, but I have to admit that beyond the system config, package management and desktop (XFCE), I find Linux native apps on the desktop to be crap. Nothing in music land can touch MusicBee or mp3tag.de. I also just tried to rip a bunch of audio CDs and the default (and most recommended) ripper, 'Asunder', doesn't handle disc numbers. Seriously. EasyTag is anything but easy. It's like the developers never used any of the decent software available since the 90s on other platforms. So wine is a godsend, even if it is impossible to update without breaking a whole wine prefix. These days I bundle the wine version and the prefix together and don't bother upgrading them because it's just too brittle.

174 points by maydemir 5y ago

Recently posted (~1.5mo ago) with 237 comments. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29612976 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29612976

capableweb 5y ago

More fitting title would be "Easily manage wineprefix using environments" or "Easily manage wine prefixes in a new way" as this is just using Wine, which is what actually does the "Run Windows software and games on Linux" (current title) part. If anyone has experience, and since the repository doesn't mention it, how is Bottles different from let's say Lutris, Q4Wine and PlayOnLinux that already exists and does something similar?

azalemeth 5y ago
I find the lutris is actually a pretty excellent experience. Most games have a method to install themselves with it, it integrates nicely with my gog library, and it really does just work. You can edit the prefix dosdevices to deny access to the filesystem outside of the prefix.
WaxProlix 5y ago
It's a little "cleaner" than Lutris, but lacks the ecosystem of init scripts afaict.
- capableweb 5y ago
  "Cleaner" in what way? The UI? The workflow? How it deals with things on disk? Resource-usage-wise?
  - WaxProlix 5y ago
    UI, and the way it presents options for your various wine settings (imo).
outworlder 5y ago
Not everyone understands what a 'wineprefix' even is.
- Normal_gaussian 5y ago
  Further to the point, I would hazard that the majority of linux users don't use wine because its too complex to justify the effort. Very few users for this want to know how they would configure wine to do the same thing, they just want to 'run windows software and games on linux'.
  - 6LLvveMx2koXfwn 5y ago
    I don't use Wine as there is no hole in my software landscape that an exclusively Windows application will fill.
  - shrimp_emoji 5y ago
    This. I've been using Linux for years, and the last time I had to mess with Wine prefixes I was super confused and it ended up not working (of course). :p CrossOver and Proton ftw.
  - tvb12 5y ago
    I do the opposite, but for the exact same reason. I couldn't figure out how to use Lutris at all when I first installed Linux, but I happened upon a very detailed guide for setting up a wine prefix (it's just a folder) for the game I was installing. Now when I install a new game I mostly just scroll back through my shell history to see what I did back then. I just opened Lutris for the first time since then and I think I can see how to use it now. But I'll probably stick to my current ways because it works and really all of it's a pain anyway. Lutris is still invaluable for peeking through the installer scripts, though.
- 0x6c6f6c 5y ago
  That's fair. But even the quick description of the project is "Easily manage wineprefix using environments".
- 5y ago
gpderetta 5y ago
AFAIK "bottle" is just a commonly used alias for a wine prefix. It predates this project.

smoldesu 5y ago

If you intend to use this, reach for the AppImage version. The AUR installation script appears to be broken, and the Flatpak version of the app is feature-incomplete (and, yunno, a Flatpak).

ghostly_s 5y ago
The download page says of Flatpak: > This is the most supported and tested release of Bottles. and AppImage: > AppImage is broken, we are investigating, please use Flatpak in the meantime.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Parent is right though: Flatpak version doesn't allow the creation of .desktop files for Windows applications. It's a mysteriously silly decision, as you don't even get the option even if you manually give the flatpak the correct permissions. Even worse: a bug in the Flatpak version prevents the launching of Windows applications directly from the commandline, so you can't even manually create .desktop files for it!
marcodiego 5y ago
I use the flatpak version. What am I losing?
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Unstable FS APIs, obfuscated data storage directories, and the app itself cannot generate launch shortcuts for any of your bottled programs.
ijlx 5y ago
> and, yunno, a Flatpak What's wrong with Flatpak? I've had fewer problems with flatpak than with AppImage personally.
- ddtaylor 5y ago
  Some peoples opinion of Flatpak has been heavily warped by websites like FlatKill.org

fouc 5y ago

Is there an OSS equivalent of this for MacOS?

IncRnd 5y ago
There are several. See https://wiki.winehq.org/Third_Party_Applications https://wiki.winehq.org/Third_Party_Applications

collegeburner 5y ago

How does it compare with Crossover? Crossover is the only software I ever used where new MS Office works.

AtlasBarfed 5y ago
Crossover is the commercial version of WINE, which this is using.
- sa1 5y ago
  It's not just that, it is also a prefix manager, which this is competing with.
  - AtlasBarfed 5y ago
    This is a strange HN post (the parent, not yours). I recall playing with bottles and prefixes ... 10 years ago I think? Back when I was in my emulation craze and wanted to setup a huge swathe of games with WINE.

ddtaylor 5y ago

Lutris, PlayOnLinux, Proton, etc. are all really cool. But, if you value your time and security, just keep a dedicated Windows system for gaming. I keep all the things I actually care about or don't want stolen on my Linux system with full drive encryption and I keep a gaming PC that has absolutely nothing I care about on it. The Windows system is never allowed to access my email, credit cards, or anything I care about in any way. The small price I pay for having to manually type a Steam authentication code from my phone into the gaming PC is worth it to never have to worry about the insane level of insecurity and bugs from the gaming sphere. The amount of RCE in gaming is pretty bad. And, you know, sometimes your friends message you and want to play a game that is new and from a developer nobody can really trust. Combine that with the fact that the first thing almost every game does is phone home to try and download new executable content and IMO you would be irresponsible to keep your important documents/credentials on a system that is also used for gaming.

badsectoracula 5y ago
> if you value your time and security, just keep a dedicated Windows system for gaming Not everyone has the space and money for this. In fact most people don't and when you buy a powerful PC for games you most likely also want to use it for your other PC tasks too - especially if you are a developer. Even if one has both the space and money, they may just not want to "task switch" between different machines (e.g. i do have a bunch of computers in my place but 99% of the time i use just one). Also switching between games and work in a different virtual desktop or whatever is way faster and more convenient than even rolling your chair to some other desk to another PC. > I keep all the things I actually care about or don't want stolen on my Linux system with full drive encryption and I keep a gaming PC that has absolutely nothing I care about on it. The Windows system is never allowed to access my email, credit cards, or anything I care about in any way. Neat, but the same applies if you are running games under Wine since everything is running under Linux and not Windows. You do not even need to have Windows installed. If you are too paranoid to even touch an EXE because it might access other stuff in your home directory you can run the games under a different user with access only to that user's files. > worry about the insane level of insecurity and bugs from the gaming sphere. The amount of RCE in gaming is pretty bad.And, you know, sometimes your friends message you and want to play a game that is new and from a developer nobody can really trust. If you do not trust a developer it is much easier and safer to not download and run the game. If there is any issue with the game, it'll be quickly figured out. It is not any different than a game targeting Linux or really any other piece of software. > Combine that with the fact that the first thing almost every game does is phone home to try and download new executable content and IMO you would be irresponsible to keep your important documents/credentials on a system that is also used for gaming. This is what pretty much EVERY software - game related or not - for pretty much EVERY OS that has some form of automatic updates does! Singling out Windows games is a bit of a double standard when your browser could be updated right tomorrow with a brand new bug that enables sites to access your SSH keys (AFAIK this has actually happened with Firefox on Linux). If anything, at least if you are playing singleplayer games, it is much easier to keep games to a known well working version when you stick with DRM-free games like those you can buy from GOG, Zoom Platform, GamersGate (not all are DRM-free there but there is a filter), Humble Bundle (similar case, not all are DRM-free), etc instead of Steam. Though even if you stick with Steam, i doubt Valve (or any other game store) wants to distribute actual malware from their service and things will either be fixed or removed.

Snetry 5y ago

The best part of Bottles for those that like to tinker and contribute is their installer format. Compared to alternatives like Lutris is nice to use and has little redundancy

qwerty456127 5y ago

I always disliked the concept of bottles as offered by CrossOver and probably the alternatives. I strongly prefer to have a single Windows subsystem with all the relevant DLLs installed and well-integrated with my Linux environment. Perhaps I never tried any particularly weird Windows apps/games but having them all in just one well-tweaked default "wineprefix" never caused a problem for me - apparently they don't conflict so unnecessary isolation means just unnecessary duplication of files and effort.

raffraffraff 5y ago

I use wine every single day, but never for gaming. I'm a 100% Linux user for over 15 years, but I have to admit that beyond the system config, package management and desktop (XFCE), I find Linux native apps on the desktop to be crap. Nothing in music land can touch MusicBee or mp3tag.de. I also just tried to rip a bunch of audio CDs and the default (and most recommended) ripper, 'Asunder', doesn't handle disc numbers. Seriously. EasyTag is anything but easy. It's like the developers never used any of the decent software available since the 90s on other platforms. So wine is a godsend, even if it is impossible to update without breaking a whole wine prefix. These days I bundle the wine version and the prefix together and don't bother upgrading them because it's just too brittle.