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This has been going on for a few months now, and will probably spread in Europe. Remains to be seen what happens in the US, since Tesla has their own charging c

This has been going on for a few months now, and will probably spread in Europe. Remains to be seen what happens in the US, since Tesla has their own charging connector here. European Teslas use CCS, but obviously that wasn't an option for the first years of the US supercharger built-out, so it seems we're stuck with their proprietary connector here. Tesla does appear to be planning some superchargers in Texas with CCS connectors available, because they're required as a condition of grant money: https://insideevs.com/news/556749/tesla-grant-application-superchargers-texas/ https://insideevs.com/news/556749/tesla-grant-application-su... Could be they'll start doing that at other new construction if they want to bring non-Tesla supercharger access to the US. Or maybe they can make a Tesla-to-CCS cable adapter and sell it to people who want to join the supercharger club. Or maybe they won't do anything.

rosstex 5y ago
>European Teslas use CCS, but obviously that wasn't an option for the first years of the US supercharger built-out Why not?
- jefftk 5y ago
  CCS didn't exist yet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System
  - wlesieutre 5y ago
    Doing a bit of looking, CCS was standardized in 2011 and first couple charging stations went up in 2012, which is actually similar timing to Tesla's superchargers. But I would assume the Supercharger system was designed in-concert with the Model S and they were well along in development. If they really wanted to they probably could have got on board in 2011 with the other manufacturers and made it happen. I thought CCS came along a couple of years later. Add that alongside the UX to reasons I don't want a Tesla.
    - InTheArena 5y ago
      CCS type 1 was one standard among many. It wasn't until CCS type 2, and many many many years later (my recollection was the EU mandated it's use in 2018 or so?) that it became viable. Chadamo (IIRC) was the evident standard at the time, and couldn't do supercharging.
- saynay 5y ago
  Predates the standard, I think?
- Bayart 5y ago
  CSS type 2 became the EU standard in 2014.
- w0m 5y ago
  Tesla needed to create the Supercharger network to ~exist - Unfortunate that it didn't get adopted as standard.
- anonu 5y ago
  Build Back Better bill, in addition to subsidizing non-tesla chargers everywhere, is trying to standardize the charging tech in the US. [1] [1] https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/11/29/2021-25868/development-of-guidance-for-electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-deployment https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/11/29/2021-25...
HWR_14 5y ago
Tesla announced they plan on selling a Tesla to CSS plug and opening up the supercharger network. However, timing is always an issue. It could happen tomorrow or in twenty years and neither would surprise me.
msoad 5y ago
The Superchargers have two cables[1]. One CCS and one Tesla standard. In the US, they can start upgrading the supercharger network with that system. [1] https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/tesla-ccs-superchargers.jpg https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/tesla-c...
phkahler 5y ago
>> European Teslas use CCS, but obviously that wasn't an option for the first years of the US supercharger built-out, so it seems we're stuck with their proprietary connector here. The standard connector for DC chargers in the us is IMHO horrible. The cables are heavy, they have redundant connections - 2 (unused in a fast charger) for AC, 2 for DC. They use an overly complex PLC (powerline communication) interface over signal wires. The whole notion of "charging networks" is stupid too. People end up having a whole bunch of different phone apps so they can use whatever network they are closest to when they need to charge. I'm not sure why investors think there's going to be big money in charging networks. IMHO the end game will be charges at McDonalds along the major highways, so people can eat and poop while their car charges on long trips. The rest of the time people will charge at home. Back to connectors, the Tesla connectors are really nice compared to the standard. But politics defined the standard.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  > IMHO the end game will be charges at McDonalds along the major highways, so people can eat and poop while their car charges on long trips Somebody has to manage/monetize those chargers at McDonalds. The "free EV charge while you are at our store" is going away quickly. Hopefully that is an existing charging network, but in the worst case McDonalds will start their own. Hopefully we can get some location/bluetooth based app activation, or maybe just a QR code.
- panick21_ 5y ago
  One of Tesla biggest mistakes was not to make that charger an open standard. It might have been an industry standard if they had.
  - ajross 5y ago
    They did, actually. But the patent grant involved a reciprocity agreement (very much along the lines of what was pioneered by open source outfits like Red Hat in the early 2000's), and the industry took a pass. The Japanese CHAdeMO standard was likewise rejected by western automakers in favor of CCS. Which is not one but two incompatible standards. CCS is just awful. It just is. They literally decided to implement the worst available choice two different ways. But the CHAdeMO example is what gives away the strategy. CHAdeMO was a "real" standard, not a proprietary product, with documents available from real standards organizations publishing it (FWIW: it's better than CCS but not as good as Tesla). But that still wasn't acceptable. Which tells you that the idea that "standards" wasn't ever the requirement. No one wanted to give Nissan a win any more than they did Tesla. Basically: CCS is bad because it was designed to be bad, because no one wanted EVs to succeed and one tactic picked was to make their charging experience a mess.
r00fus 5y ago
Tesla would have CCS everywhere in the US if the BBB federal $$ would come their way as a result. Due to that bill not passing, it's not a priority.
- hnburnsy 5y ago
  Not to mention how angry Musk is at Biden for snubbing Tesla... "Biden is a damp sock puppet in human form" https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1486767109275328516#m https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1486767109275328516#m

rosstex 5y ago

>European Teslas use CCS, but obviously that wasn't an option for the first years of the US supercharger built-out Why not?

jefftk 5y ago
CCS didn't exist yet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System
- wlesieutre 5y ago
  Doing a bit of looking, CCS was standardized in 2011 and first couple charging stations went up in 2012, which is actually similar timing to Tesla's superchargers. But I would assume the Supercharger system was designed in-concert with the Model S and they were well along in development. If they really wanted to they probably could have got on board in 2011 with the other manufacturers and made it happen. I thought CCS came along a couple of years later. Add that alongside the UX to reasons I don't want a Tesla.
  - InTheArena 5y ago
    CCS type 1 was one standard among many. It wasn't until CCS type 2, and many many many years later (my recollection was the EU mandated it's use in 2018 or so?) that it became viable. Chadamo (IIRC) was the evident standard at the time, and couldn't do supercharging.
saynay 5y ago
Predates the standard, I think?
Bayart 5y ago
CSS type 2 became the EU standard in 2014.
w0m 5y ago
Tesla needed to create the Supercharger network to ~exist - Unfortunate that it didn't get adopted as standard.
anonu 5y ago
Build Back Better bill, in addition to subsidizing non-tesla chargers everywhere, is trying to standardize the charging tech in the US. [1] [1] https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/11/29/2021-25868/development-of-guidance-for-electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-deployment https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/11/29/2021-25...

HWR_14 5y ago

Tesla announced they plan on selling a Tesla to CSS plug and opening up the supercharger network. However, timing is always an issue. It could happen tomorrow or in twenty years and neither would surprise me.

msoad 5y ago

The Superchargers have two cables[1]. One CCS and one Tesla standard. In the US, they can start upgrading the supercharger network with that system. [1] https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/tesla-ccs-superchargers.jpg https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/tesla-c...

phkahler 5y ago

>> European Teslas use CCS, but obviously that wasn't an option for the first years of the US supercharger built-out, so it seems we're stuck with their proprietary connector here. The standard connector for DC chargers in the us is IMHO horrible. The cables are heavy, they have redundant connections - 2 (unused in a fast charger) for AC, 2 for DC. They use an overly complex PLC (powerline communication) interface over signal wires. The whole notion of "charging networks" is stupid too. People end up having a whole bunch of different phone apps so they can use whatever network they are closest to when they need to charge. I'm not sure why investors think there's going to be big money in charging networks. IMHO the end game will be charges at McDonalds along the major highways, so people can eat and poop while their car charges on long trips. The rest of the time people will charge at home. Back to connectors, the Tesla connectors are really nice compared to the standard. But politics defined the standard.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
> IMHO the end game will be charges at McDonalds along the major highways, so people can eat and poop while their car charges on long trips Somebody has to manage/monetize those chargers at McDonalds. The "free EV charge while you are at our store" is going away quickly. Hopefully that is an existing charging network, but in the worst case McDonalds will start their own. Hopefully we can get some location/bluetooth based app activation, or maybe just a QR code.
panick21_ 5y ago
One of Tesla biggest mistakes was not to make that charger an open standard. It might have been an industry standard if they had.
- ajross 5y ago
  They did, actually. But the patent grant involved a reciprocity agreement (very much along the lines of what was pioneered by open source outfits like Red Hat in the early 2000's), and the industry took a pass. The Japanese CHAdeMO standard was likewise rejected by western automakers in favor of CCS. Which is not one but two incompatible standards. CCS is just awful. It just is. They literally decided to implement the worst available choice two different ways. But the CHAdeMO example is what gives away the strategy. CHAdeMO was a "real" standard, not a proprietary product, with documents available from real standards organizations publishing it (FWIW: it's better than CCS but not as good as Tesla). But that still wasn't acceptable. Which tells you that the idea that "standards" wasn't ever the requirement. No one wanted to give Nissan a win any more than they did Tesla. Basically: CCS is bad because it was designed to be bad, because no one wanted EVs to succeed and one tactic picked was to make their charging experience a mess.

r00fus 5y ago

Tesla would have CCS everywhere in the US if the BBB federal $$ would come their way as a result. Due to that bill not passing, it's not a priority.

hnburnsy 5y ago
Not to mention how angry Musk is at Biden for snubbing Tesla... "Biden is a damp sock puppet in human form" https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1486767109275328516#m https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1486767109275328516#m