7 ms·

>Rather than people owning a car they'll request one via an app, it'll turn up and drive them where they want to be Which will mean turning up to the suburbs a

>Rather than people owning a car they'll request one via an app, it'll turn up and drive them where they want to be Which will mean turning up to the suburbs at 8am to drive downtown by 9am. Without a drastic, permanent change in working hours & commuting (or permanent WFH) the minimum number of cars will barely change.

onion2k 5y ago
Without a drastic, permanent change in working hours & commuting (or permanent WFH)... That's already happening.
- oblio 5y ago
  > That's already happening. Because of a worldwide pandemic. There's no guarantee that these changes will last.
  - onion2k 5y ago
    It was happening long before Covid. Covid just accelerated it.
    - oblio 5y ago
      True, but there are also backlashes, especially when something is forced. And too many remote work enthusiast assume that the steady state for this is majority remote work. I don't buy it. I'd be surprised if we go over 25%, maaaaybe 40% best case scenario.
amelius 5y ago
It could also be a minivan or bus, which can be shared with workers from the same area.
- kiliantics 5y ago
  something like this already exists and carries even more workers from the same area -- trains
  - amelius 5y ago
    Trains don't pick you up at your front door.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- ARandomerDude 5y ago
  Nothing is more enticing than a shared car with other people who are incentivized to push the cleaning and maintenance onto somebody else, while maximizing their own use of the vehicle. It'll be like a public bathroom but with wheels.
  - amelius 5y ago
    Just like rental cars are public bathrooms on wheels?
    - ARandomerDude 5y ago
      Rental cars have someone incentivized to clean and maintain them, namely the rental car company.
shafyy 5y ago
The key is to build cities and surroundings around people and not around cars. Of course people will use cars if it's the best mode of transportation. But, as shown by many cities around the globe, if you make public transit or biking the best modes of transportation, people will not use cars to commute. I think this is something people who have never lived in such cities inherently don't understand. Public transport and bike will always be a better mode of transport for most use cases (not for all, of course) if implemented properly - self-driving cars or not. And no, the solution is also not a hyper loop. Just good old buses, trains, trams, subways and bikes.
- Steltek 5y ago
  It's hard to tell people "just take the bus" when the nearest suitable home to the bus stop starts at $1M. Alt transit is making slow but measurable progress but the housing situation is the real priority if you want people out of cars. Unless you're a believer in urban living, suburban costs are hard to beat, even when factoring in car ownership costs.
  - shafyy 5y ago
    That's why I'm saying in "cities and surroundings". You can absolutely build great public transportation infrastructure in rural areas. For example, in Switzerland public transportation is mostly public, and you can go to every nook and corner of the country reliably. As a stark contrast, in Ireland, a lot of the "public" transport is privatized and there transport options suck in rural areas. Now, I don't want to make this about private vs. public (even though I absolutely think public transport should be public), but just to show that it's just a matter of how you invest money and set incentives to build this infrastructure.
  - acdha 5y ago
    This very much depends on where you live. In SF or NYC, sure, housing is very expensive but that's not the entire country and even there it's exaggerating to say you can't live near transit for less than $1M. We definitely need more attention to urban housing availability and improving transit considerably (i.e. not treating it as a last resort for the poor / disabled) but there's also a lot of inertia and assumption driving those comparisons which leads people to think it's cheaper to live further out even when they end up spending the same amount or more (at least hopefully for a preferred lifestyle choice such as a large lawn).

onion2k 5y ago

Without a drastic, permanent change in working hours & commuting (or permanent WFH)... That's already happening.

oblio 5y ago
> That's already happening. Because of a worldwide pandemic. There's no guarantee that these changes will last.
- onion2k 5y ago
  It was happening long before Covid. Covid just accelerated it.
  - oblio 5y ago
    True, but there are also backlashes, especially when something is forced. And too many remote work enthusiast assume that the steady state for this is majority remote work. I don't buy it. I'd be surprised if we go over 25%, maaaaybe 40% best case scenario.

amelius 5y ago

It could also be a minivan or bus, which can be shared with workers from the same area.

kiliantics 5y ago
something like this already exists and carries even more workers from the same area -- trains
- amelius 5y ago
  Trains don't pick you up at your front door.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
ARandomerDude 5y ago
Nothing is more enticing than a shared car with other people who are incentivized to push the cleaning and maintenance onto somebody else, while maximizing their own use of the vehicle. It'll be like a public bathroom but with wheels.
- amelius 5y ago
  Just like rental cars are public bathrooms on wheels?
  - ARandomerDude 5y ago
    Rental cars have someone incentivized to clean and maintain them, namely the rental car company.

shafyy 5y ago

The key is to build cities and surroundings around people and not around cars. Of course people will use cars if it's the best mode of transportation. But, as shown by many cities around the globe, if you make public transit or biking the best modes of transportation, people will not use cars to commute. I think this is something people who have never lived in such cities inherently don't understand. Public transport and bike will always be a better mode of transport for most use cases (not for all, of course) if implemented properly - self-driving cars or not. And no, the solution is also not a hyper loop. Just good old buses, trains, trams, subways and bikes.

Steltek 5y ago
It's hard to tell people "just take the bus" when the nearest suitable home to the bus stop starts at $1M. Alt transit is making slow but measurable progress but the housing situation is the real priority if you want people out of cars. Unless you're a believer in urban living, suburban costs are hard to beat, even when factoring in car ownership costs.
- shafyy 5y ago
  That's why I'm saying in "cities and surroundings". You can absolutely build great public transportation infrastructure in rural areas. For example, in Switzerland public transportation is mostly public, and you can go to every nook and corner of the country reliably. As a stark contrast, in Ireland, a lot of the "public" transport is privatized and there transport options suck in rural areas. Now, I don't want to make this about private vs. public (even though I absolutely think public transport should be public), but just to show that it's just a matter of how you invest money and set incentives to build this infrastructure.
- acdha 5y ago
  This very much depends on where you live. In SF or NYC, sure, housing is very expensive but that's not the entire country and even there it's exaggerating to say you can't live near transit for less than $1M. We definitely need more attention to urban housing availability and improving transit considerably (i.e. not treating it as a last resort for the poor / disabled) but there's also a lot of inertia and assumption driving those comparisons which leads people to think it's cheaper to live further out even when they end up spending the same amount or more (at least hopefully for a preferred lifestyle choice such as a large lawn).