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I'm surprised they are using "conscientiousness" exclusively in the sense of being careful and nothing about knowing right from wrong. There are so many jobs in

I'm surprised they are using "conscientiousness" exclusively in the sense of being careful and nothing about knowing right from wrong. There are so many jobs in the tech industry that a truly conscientious person should steer clear of. If you plan on hiring from the world's precious pool of conscientious people, please make damn sure that the job warrants that quality. Take a hard look at your employer's effect on the world before hiring a conscientious person who will find those sore spots eventually, at great personal cost.

Jensson 5y ago
Conscientiousness means you do your duty, knowing right from wrong is called "conscience".
- francisofascii 5y ago
  Agree they are not the same thing, but often can be related. If you get lazy or slack off on things like testing, handling edges cases, properly documenting. Your conscience will bother you when you are not being conscientious.
- brigandish 5y ago
  From the Oxford English dictionary: > conscientious | ˌkɒnʃɪˈɛnʃəs | adjective > 1 wishing to do one's work or duty well and thoroughly: a conscientious man, he took his duties very seriously. > 2 relating to a person's conscience: the individual is denied even the opportunity to break the law on conscientious grounds.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    It means you follow the laws and do what you are supposed to do, but it isn't conscience in the other senses. A soldier carrying out orders is conscientious, but his conscience might not be clean. This works for both of those definitions.
    - zepto 5y ago
      No it doesn’t. It violates definition 2.
      - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
        Generally, when people talk about conscientiousness in this sense (certainly the article), they're talking about the psychological construct (i.e. a named pattern of correlations that emerges from self report questionnaire analysis) rather than the dictionary definition.
        zepto 5y ago
        Sure, but the two are not neatly separated.
    - brigandish 5y ago
      I can read, thanks. In fact, we all can. Why are you continuing to argue? The definition is right there in black and white, I'm willing to bet that no one here is interested in semantic arguments for their own sake nor for the sake of your ego so please don't continue. Wow, arguing with the Oxford English dictionary…
      - Jensson 5y ago
        But in the context of the article we are talking about the definition found in psychology, and not the definition found in some lexicon. In psychology conscientiousness is only about the organized and responsible part.
        brigandish 5y ago
        If that is so, then that should have been your response. As it is, this is found in the article: > Yasseen worked hard and he cared about his work. In Arabic, we would say Yasseen had Dhameer—“a conscience.” That's a clue as to why conscientiouness is also listed in that dictionary defintion as a derivative - one precedes the other. > Bringing a conscience to your work means working conscientiously—as Dr. George Simon put it, “Conscientiousness is mindfulness guided by conscience.” That's enough of this for me.
- mac-chaffee 5y ago
  Conscientious has more than one definition. Yes, that is one of them. I'm referring to the other definition which does involve right and wrong: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/conscientious https://www.dictionary.com/browse/conscientious
  - Jensson 5y ago
    That is also the same. See the clarified example: "She's a conscientious judge, who does not let personal prejudices influence her decisions." Basically she does her duty as a judge instead of letting her personal feelings influence her judgements. Conscientious people do things by the book.
    - zepto 5y ago
      It’s not anywhere near that simple. A judge not letting one’s feelings influence their decisions can also be a matter of conscience, because they believe that justice should be equal for all. Conscientious people do generally go by the ‘book’ or convention, but it matters to them whether the ‘book’ is ethical or not. That doesn’t mean they have a sense of universal ethics. You could certainly have a conscientious concentration camp commandant who believed that fascism was the most ethical system and that everything else was less honest, but the point is that conscience is part of the equation.
fallingknife 5y ago
Morality is not a solved problem. People who claim to always know right from wrong are sanctimonious, not conscientious.

Jensson 5y ago

Conscientiousness means you do your duty, knowing right from wrong is called "conscience".

francisofascii 5y ago
Agree they are not the same thing, but often can be related. If you get lazy or slack off on things like testing, handling edges cases, properly documenting. Your conscience will bother you when you are not being conscientious.
brigandish 5y ago
From the Oxford English dictionary: > conscientious | ˌkɒnʃɪˈɛnʃəs | adjective > 1 wishing to do one's work or duty well and thoroughly: a conscientious man, he took his duties very seriously. > 2 relating to a person's conscience: the individual is denied even the opportunity to break the law on conscientious grounds.
- Jensson 5y ago
  It means you follow the laws and do what you are supposed to do, but it isn't conscience in the other senses. A soldier carrying out orders is conscientious, but his conscience might not be clean. This works for both of those definitions.
  - zepto 5y ago
    No it doesn’t. It violates definition 2.
    - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
      Generally, when people talk about conscientiousness in this sense (certainly the article), they're talking about the psychological construct (i.e. a named pattern of correlations that emerges from self report questionnaire analysis) rather than the dictionary definition.
      - zepto 5y ago
        Sure, but the two are not neatly separated.
  - brigandish 5y ago
    I can read, thanks. In fact, we all can. Why are you continuing to argue? The definition is right there in black and white, I'm willing to bet that no one here is interested in semantic arguments for their own sake nor for the sake of your ego so please don't continue. Wow, arguing with the Oxford English dictionary…
    - Jensson 5y ago
      But in the context of the article we are talking about the definition found in psychology, and not the definition found in some lexicon. In psychology conscientiousness is only about the organized and responsible part.
      - brigandish 5y ago
        If that is so, then that should have been your response. As it is, this is found in the article: > Yasseen worked hard and he cared about his work. In Arabic, we would say Yasseen had Dhameer—“a conscience.” That's a clue as to why conscientiouness is also listed in that dictionary defintion as a derivative - one precedes the other. > Bringing a conscience to your work means working conscientiously—as Dr. George Simon put it, “Conscientiousness is mindfulness guided by conscience.” That's enough of this for me.
mac-chaffee 5y ago
Conscientious has more than one definition. Yes, that is one of them. I'm referring to the other definition which does involve right and wrong: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/conscientious https://www.dictionary.com/browse/conscientious
- Jensson 5y ago
  That is also the same. See the clarified example: "She's a conscientious judge, who does not let personal prejudices influence her decisions." Basically she does her duty as a judge instead of letting her personal feelings influence her judgements. Conscientious people do things by the book.
  - zepto 5y ago
    It’s not anywhere near that simple. A judge not letting one’s feelings influence their decisions can also be a matter of conscience, because they believe that justice should be equal for all. Conscientious people do generally go by the ‘book’ or convention, but it matters to them whether the ‘book’ is ethical or not. That doesn’t mean they have a sense of universal ethics. You could certainly have a conscientious concentration camp commandant who believed that fascism was the most ethical system and that everything else was less honest, but the point is that conscience is part of the equation.

fallingknife 5y ago

Morality is not a solved problem. People who claim to always know right from wrong are sanctimonious, not conscientious.