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One thing I was flabbergasted at recently was Tesla offering, and the government allowing, regular drivers to use a yoke steering wheel like F1 drivers. Not onl

• quartesixte 5y ago
  Elon is weirdly good at getting regulators to just let him do things. FSD beta. The yoke steering wheel. Like a quarter of everything SpaceX does. Does he just have really good lobbyists? Is his force of personality just that good? It’s kind of fascinating.
  • Isinlor 5y ago
    He does not have good lobbyists. Have you seen Tesla being the only company not invited on electric car day in white house? https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a37244461/elon-musk-says-tesla-not-invited-to-white-house-ev-event/ https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a37244461/elon-musk... Do you know that Tesla will be excluded from tax credits for EVs? https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/29/energy-secretary-defends-tesla-ev-tax-credit-exclusion.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/29/energy-secretary-defends-tes... Do you know that Texas where Tesla is building its next factory does not allow to sell Teslas? https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/texas-law-keeps-teslas-made-in-the-state-from-being-sold-directly-to-texans https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/texas-law-keeps-teslas-made...
    • noduerme 5y ago
      Eh, he just needs to touch up his PR when it comes to labor relations. > Do you know that Texas where Tesla is building its next factory does not allow to sell Teslas? You think you can't buy a Tesla in Texas? What planet are you on?
      • Isinlor 5y ago
        Yes, Texas does not allow direct sale of cars. You have to buy your Tesla out of the state and Tesla will deliver the car to Texas. https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/texas-law-keeps-teslas-made-in-the-state-from-being-sold-directly-to-texans https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/texas-law-keeps-teslas-made... https://insideevs.com/news/510302/tesla-no-sales-allowed-texas/ https://insideevs.com/news/510302/tesla-no-sales-allowed-tex... Biden administration is explicitly designing laws to prop up other car companies and exclude Tesla. It's not just about labor PR, they want to force Tesla to unionize. But Tesla will not unionize and they will be the only ones without subsidies. Extremely shitty lobbing. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/29/energy-secretary-defends-tesla-ev-tax-credit-exclusion.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/29/energy-secretary-defends-tes...
      • vel0city 5y ago
        > What planet are you on? Uhh, Texas? You cannot buy a Tesla in Texas. Technically speaking, the transaction happens out of state and the car is shipped to you in Texas. Legally speaking Tesla has never sold a car in Texas. They have Tesla "galleries" where you can look at cars, take test drives, customize your order, and they'll help with the paperwork for you to buy it out of state. I don't think Texas is alone in their dealer franchise laws.
  • tsujp 5y ago
    > it's kind of fascinating. For me I'd replace that with: scary. Full size A4 paper and bigger screens in cars you can stream movies on while driving (distraction leading to accidents); the Las Vegas Loop which is just a tunnel for only one type of car (waste of infrastructure space); pushing untested AI (crashing and killing people). These aren't fascinating things.
    • rektide 5y ago
      I don't like the pedestrian killing murder-machine aspect of their vast In Vehicle Entertainment systems at all. The Vegas Loop tells such a strong tale though, to me, of control over infrastructure itself, in a vulgar & horrific way. Just like Tesla's charging infrastructure! Can you imagine if you had to find a Ford or a Toyota gas station to fill up at? This world used to be able to get along, to find general welfare. Cooperation used to exist. Tesla keeps being more and more an example of anti-cooperative anti-civil market-capture horseshit. A car no one else can repair, with it's own charging infrastructure, it's own roads: this screams "THE ENEMY" to me. It's the most capitalist-lowlife Lawful Evil behaviors writ large here, on display: vulgar & primitive exercises in dominance, with no pretense that there's space for anyone else in the world, no sense in leaving any room for any one else on the planet.
      • ggreer 5y ago
        Tesla's charging is different because they created their charging infrastructure before anyone else. The first supercharger was built in 2012. Despite Tesla open sourcing their patents[1], other EV manufacturers used different standards. Also Tesla is starting to let non-Teslas use their superchargers.[2] All Teslas can use other charging stations, though they'll charge slowly. Newer Teslas (since late 2019) have support for the high speed Combined Charging System standard and Tesla is rolling out CCS adapters.[3] Lastly, most EV charging happens at home using level 1 or level 2 systems, which are standard NEMA plugs that Tesla sells adapters for. If Tesla's goal was to lock-in their customers and exclude other vehicles, they seem to be doing all the wrong things. 1. https://www.tesla.com/legal/additional-resources#patent-pledge https://www.tesla.com/legal/additional-resources#patent-pled... 2. https://www.tesla.com/support/non-tesla-supercharging https://www.tesla.com/support/non-tesla-supercharging 3. https://driveteslacanada.ca/model-y/tesla-ccs-adapter-activated-in-north-america-with-2021-40-6-software-update/ https://driveteslacanada.ca/model-y/tesla-ccs-adapter-activa...
  • bengale 5y ago
    I'm interested to know how he's going to get away with that truck that looks like its designed to cut pedestrians in half.
    • darkstar999 5y ago
      I don't understand why this is an argument against Tesla - how is it different than any other large truck?
      • throwaway946513 5y ago
        Front bumpers of most cars/truck are generally plastic and can at least absorb energy of an impact with a pedestrian (albeit the hood is often near neck high and can snap their neck) Tesla paraded their new truck with 'stainless steel body panels all around'. I don't know about you, but I've banged my shin into a steel tow hitch. I don't want anything remotely close to that on the road.
        • darkstar999 5y ago
          That doesn't make sense to me. I watched some pedestrian crash test videos, there is no energy absorption by the bumper. It's bad news to be hit by any car. (I'm no Tesla fanboy)
          • throwaway946513 5y ago
            Most pedestrian crash tests are at low enough speed that there isn't visible energy absorption, plus most dummies aren't equivalent to most human scales. They tend to be modeled after a 6' adult male at around 200lbs. The bigger issue with larger vehicles is their height around people current full size or even mid-size SUVs and trucks have gotten larger than their former variants. You're much more likely as a pedestrian to get run over than to be hit by a car and land on the hood or the windshield (which is by far the better position to be in during an accident). The crash bar behind the bumper on all cars have a thick layer of foam that contributes to the 'softness' of a bumper.
• baxuz 5y ago
  And all the buttons on the yoke are touch sensitive. That makes absolutely no sense for a control device.
• viburnum 5y ago
  The steering wheel in an F1 car only goes about 220 degrees in either direction (drivers have to keep their hands on the wheel and their arms aren't made of rubber). The steering in a regular car goes about 540 degrees in either direction (one and a half times around). When parallel parking you often have to turn the wheel three whole revolutions. F1 steering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVz6IW_wegs&t=45s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVz6IW_wegs&t=45s Tesla steering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWtJu0q3sBQ&t=44s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWtJu0q3sBQ&t=44s
  • function_seven 5y ago
    Your second video horrified me. What the hell are they thinking with the touch-sensitive inputs on the steering wheel? Nevermind the weird shape and the issues with orientation when signaling during a steering maneuver. Those aren't actual buttons, they're no better than a touch screen. When I drive, my hands aren't always in the exact same position on the wheel. Muscle-memory won't reliably have my thumb landing on the correct signal direction. If I have to honk the horn, I need to be able to do that instantly, without thinking. Some cutesy icon located away from the edge of the steering wheel will guarantee that the horn sounds simultaneously with the "crunch" of another car backing into me. My proposed rule-of-thumb: If a video game company wouldn't design their controllers this way, you shouldn't do it either for the most common—or most urgent—functions. Turn signals, wipers, horn, and hazard lights should all be real buttons that are in a consistent location. Horn should be in the hub of the steering wheel.
    • Eji1700 5y ago
      Glad i'm not the only one who thinks this is insane. I could maybe see a yolk, but dear god get me AWAY from touch screen style buttons in any serious process, let alone ones that can wind up in different orientations. And why in the hell does a yolk need to have the horn on a button rather than the center of the yolk as anyone would expect? Maybe there's some technical reason i'm unaware of, but this seems actively dangerous for no gain. I can think of several better ways to do this that aren't actively confusing and hostile to the driver.
• noduerme 5y ago
  I think these gimmicks and the new touchscreen UI serve a purpose for Tesla. Their goal is to make the car so divorced from human input that (1) it becomes increasingly reasonable to claim that an unfinished self-driving system is no more dangerous than a human in the loop, and (2) their fan base is conditioned to accept the eventuality of having no meaningful input (or feedback) at all. As for part two, I noticed it a couple years ago with a relative who bought a Tesla and was still just awed by its features. But all the ones he was awed by were the ones that took power away from the driver. I wondered then, why would anyone want to own this car once it really does all the driving for you? No one will actually own a Tesla at that point, they'll just call one on an app. Except for maybe a few silly people who want to feel like they're telling it what to do with a joystick.
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• ohgodplsno 5y ago
  Just like everything done by Tesla: they have absolutely no experience in making cars, and it shows really badly. Terrible construction quality that I don't even experience on a 10k € Dacia, touch screens everywhere (it's already bad enough when it's just the radio or Android Auto, but a bunch of critical features are on the touch screen), the yoke having no physical feedback and clearly no thought other than "wow futuristic" behind it. Smoke and mirrors is Tesla's way of operating. Look at the coverage they got out of the yoke. Out of FSD. It doesn't matter that they are terrible: there'll be 100 articles about it releasing and 2 about it being a bad idea.
  • alexvoda 5y ago
    Tesla should really stick to making electric drivetrains and branding and let someone else design and build the rest if the car.
    • asdff 5y ago
      Honestly a lot of cars are ugly. Look at what they've been doing to BMWs lately. Safety features combined with an unwillingness to look very different from the rest of the pack anymore have created these designs by committee that are not truly terrible where they won't sell but also not very good where people will look to them as a piece of art like an old aircooled porsche.
  • flibberbit 5y ago
    Totally agree. I have a decent German-made car and it BLOWS Tesla out of the water in build quality. I remember getting into the model S in a showroom and just feeling like I was in a budget auto. For 100k it doesn't compare at all to a 50k Audi, it's just plasticy and flimsy. It felt like the McMansion of cars, all show.
• esalman 5y ago
  Tesla is basically the 2000s prius. It is cool now, but in near future won't be anymore.
  • cultofmetatron 5y ago
    I have an early 200s Prius. Its seen better days but the battery works and I can't argue with the fuel savings. it costs me about $30 to fill up and that lasts me for about a month.
    • esalman 5y ago
      I own two Toyotas myself ;) An 8 year old Corolla that I only occasionally drive, but it never fails to take me from point A to B; another is a new and exciting Highlander hybrid which I only need to fill once every 500 miles.
  • throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Pretty much everyone who clogged up the left lane in the '00s in their Prius is still doing the same thing today but in a Tacoma or 4Runner. The specific model of blind adoration may have changed but the fanboys still line the same pockets. If that is any indication Tesla will do just fine.
    • esalman 5y ago
      Toyota are doing fine because of their reliability. Can the same be said about Tesla?
      • throwaway0a5e 5y ago
        Toyota has a brand image and they design, market and sell to that image. Tesla has established a brand image based around a different set of attributes and they design, market and sell to it.
        • esalman 5y ago
• raxxorrax 5y ago
  You rarely need to reverse F1 cars and if you do you probably have bigger problems. A round wheel does make so much more sense and is far more comfortable to handle.
• parkingrift 5y ago
  I've not seen any evidence that the yoke steering wheel is dangerous. The downside that you're describing can only happen at zero or near to zero speed. BMW doesn't even install turn signals at all so I think the occasional errant turn signal is fine. The reason the NHTSA hasn't "forbid" the yoke is because... it isn't unsafe, it's just stupid. It would be significantly less stupid if it had physical buttons on the steering wheel.
  • otterley 5y ago
    > BMW doesn't even install turn signals at all I realize there's a joke in Germany about this, but to be clear, all passenger vehicles sold in the U.S. must have working turn signals. See https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2004-title49-vol5/xml/CFR-2004-title49-vol5-sec571-108.xml https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2004-title49-vol5/xm...