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Okay so how many will they ship in 2022? 2023? Everyone is coming out with an awesome BEV but no one other than Tesla ship any volume. Rivian shipped under 10

Okay so how many will they ship in 2022? 2023? Everyone is coming out with an awesome BEV but no one other than Tesla ship any volume. Rivian shipped under 1000 in 2021. Chevy stopped basically all shipments due to cars exploding. In 2022 I think the new Cadallic Escalade is coming, which had rave reviews but I am suspecting will be < 10k units. Almost doesn’t matter how good these EV alternatives are if they can’t ship 100k units in the US.

kyruzic 5y ago
VW shipped more electric vehicles in Europe than Tesla.
- cobookman 5y ago
  Source? Tesla model 3 seems to be outselling all others by a large margin. https://www.statista.com/statistics/972845/electric-vehicles-leading-models-europe/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/972845/electric-vehicles... And December sales Tesla is still #1 https://cleantechnica.com/files/2022/01/Europe-Electric-Vehicle-Sales-December-2021-CleanTechnica.png https://cleantechnica.com/files/2022/01/Europe-Electric-Vehi...
  - conjecTech 5y ago
    Clean technica agrees that VW ships more. VW has more brands and models. Tesla model 3 may be the top seller, but it's one of only 2 models that Tesla has with significant volume. For instance Audi is a VW group company too. Together they have ~5 of the top 20 EVs. [1] https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/30/15-of-auto-sales-in-europe-were-fully-electric-vehicles-in-november/ https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/30/15-of-auto-sales-in-eur...
  - clouddrover 5y ago
    Volkswagen had 25.9% of the European EV market in 2021: https://eu-evs.com/bestSellers/ALL/Groups/Year/2021 https://eu-evs.com/bestSellers/ALL/Groups/Year/2021 Volkswagen owns many automative brands (VW, Audi, Skoda, SEAT, Porsche, etc.) so sales are split across more brands and models: https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/group.html https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/group.html
dangrossman 5y ago
1) 150K/year production rate by mid-2023 just for the Lightning. 2) Millions of non-Tesla EVs are sold every year. Tesla is not the market leader in all regions. 3) The US is not the world's largest EV market. We're less important than Europe or China to car manufacturers when it comes to EVs. 4) GM EVs outsold Tesla EVs last year in China.
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  Hard to outsell someone in China who already has 4 factories when you don't have a factory on the same continent...
  - dangrossman 5y ago
    China is where Tesla's largest, highest production rate factory is located. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giga_Shanghai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giga_Shanghai
    - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
      Highest theoretical production rate, they literally just started pumping out vehicles with any volume within the past year. Fremont has the highest production rate, where are you getting your information? How long have GM had factories in China? > "General Motors Co. traces its [Chinese] roots back to 1908. GM has 10 joint ventures, two wholly owned foreign enterprises and more than 58,000 employees in China." - From their website
      - dangrossman 5y ago
        > Fremont has the highest production rate, where are you getting your information? It's in the link I already provided. Here's another source: https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/giga-shanghai-november-2021-production-figures/ https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/giga-shanghai-november-2021...
        5y ago
tmh88j 5y ago
>Almost doesn’t matter how good these EV alternatives are if they can’t ship 100k units in the US. Rivian is basically a startup, they shouldn't be lumped in with everyone else's capabilities. As for the existing brands, I don't think it's because they're not capable. They're still printing money from their current vehicles so they're slowly rolling over engineering resources and funding to the EV side of things. The EV truck market is basically non-existent. Rivian is realistically the only manufacturer who has to worry about competition for the next few years. The F-Series generated $42 billion in revenue for 2019[1] without any EV powertrains offered. If Ford put 100% of their engineering manpower and funds towards EV's tomorrow they would cripple themselves. [1]https://thenewswheel.com/ford-f-series-42-billion-revenue-2019/ https://thenewswheel.com/ford-f-series-42-billion-revenue-20...
clouddrover 5y ago
> Almost doesn’t matter how good these EV alternatives are if they can’t ship 100k units in the US. The US EV market is one third the size of the European and Chinese EV markets: https://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehicle-volumes/ https://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehic...
kumarvvr 5y ago
> Everyone is coming out with an awesome BEV but no one other than Tesla ship any volume. The volume issues with Tesla in its initial days are well known. I think Ford can step up.

kyruzic 5y ago

VW shipped more electric vehicles in Europe than Tesla.

cobookman 5y ago
Source? Tesla model 3 seems to be outselling all others by a large margin. https://www.statista.com/statistics/972845/electric-vehicles-leading-models-europe/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/972845/electric-vehicles... And December sales Tesla is still #1 https://cleantechnica.com/files/2022/01/Europe-Electric-Vehicle-Sales-December-2021-CleanTechnica.png https://cleantechnica.com/files/2022/01/Europe-Electric-Vehi...
- conjecTech 5y ago
  Clean technica agrees that VW ships more. VW has more brands and models. Tesla model 3 may be the top seller, but it's one of only 2 models that Tesla has with significant volume. For instance Audi is a VW group company too. Together they have ~5 of the top 20 EVs. [1] https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/30/15-of-auto-sales-in-europe-were-fully-electric-vehicles-in-november/ https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/30/15-of-auto-sales-in-eur...
- clouddrover 5y ago
  Volkswagen had 25.9% of the European EV market in 2021: https://eu-evs.com/bestSellers/ALL/Groups/Year/2021 https://eu-evs.com/bestSellers/ALL/Groups/Year/2021 Volkswagen owns many automative brands (VW, Audi, Skoda, SEAT, Porsche, etc.) so sales are split across more brands and models: https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/group.html https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/group.html

dangrossman 5y ago

1) 150K/year production rate by mid-2023 just for the Lightning. 2) Millions of non-Tesla EVs are sold every year. Tesla is not the market leader in all regions. 3) The US is not the world's largest EV market. We're less important than Europe or China to car manufacturers when it comes to EVs. 4) GM EVs outsold Tesla EVs last year in China.

halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
Hard to outsell someone in China who already has 4 factories when you don't have a factory on the same continent...
- dangrossman 5y ago
  China is where Tesla's largest, highest production rate factory is located. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giga_Shanghai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giga_Shanghai
  - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
    Highest theoretical production rate, they literally just started pumping out vehicles with any volume within the past year. Fremont has the highest production rate, where are you getting your information? How long have GM had factories in China? > "General Motors Co. traces its [Chinese] roots back to 1908. GM has 10 joint ventures, two wholly owned foreign enterprises and more than 58,000 employees in China." - From their website
    - dangrossman 5y ago
      > Fremont has the highest production rate, where are you getting your information? It's in the link I already provided. Here's another source: https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/giga-shanghai-november-2021-production-figures/ https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/giga-shanghai-november-2021...
      - 5y ago

tmh88j 5y ago

>Almost doesn’t matter how good these EV alternatives are if they can’t ship 100k units in the US. Rivian is basically a startup, they shouldn't be lumped in with everyone else's capabilities. As for the existing brands, I don't think it's because they're not capable. They're still printing money from their current vehicles so they're slowly rolling over engineering resources and funding to the EV side of things. The EV truck market is basically non-existent. Rivian is realistically the only manufacturer who has to worry about competition for the next few years. The F-Series generated $42 billion in revenue for 2019[1] without any EV powertrains offered. If Ford put 100% of their engineering manpower and funds towards EV's tomorrow they would cripple themselves. [1]https://thenewswheel.com/ford-f-series-42-billion-revenue-2019/ https://thenewswheel.com/ford-f-series-42-billion-revenue-20...

clouddrover 5y ago

> Almost doesn’t matter how good these EV alternatives are if they can’t ship 100k units in the US. The US EV market is one third the size of the European and Chinese EV markets: https://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehicle-volumes/ https://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehic...

kumarvvr 5y ago

> Everyone is coming out with an awesome BEV but no one other than Tesla ship any volume. The volume issues with Tesla in its initial days are well known. I think Ford can step up.