6 ms·

Can Microsoft please make a Windows phone after all? Both Apple and Android ecosystems and hardware together are terrible in various ways and don't work well wi

Can Microsoft please make a Windows phone after all? Both Apple and Android ecosystems and hardware together are terrible in various ways and don't work well with Windows.

rafale 5y ago
They did. It was called Windows Phone... It came out too late, offered too little.
- drunkpotato 5y ago
  It was pretty good. Seemed better than Android at the time. I'm not sure why Microsoft didn't put as much oomph into it as they did for, say, the Xbox, but if they had it might be a major player now.
  - qbasic_forever 5y ago
    I had a HTC windows phone and it was not good in my experience. The app store was non-existent, the OS forced you into using its own social media experiences which were half implemented and janky vs. native apps, and the web browser was slow and clunky for the era (2010s). The home screen was enormously painful with all kinds of different sized icons strewn about and blinking, changing, etc. randomly--I could never find anything in the same place. The only good thing I could say is that the settings were much simpler and easier to navigate than apple or android phones at the time. But that was really more because there was far less you could change or do in windows phones. As far as effort put into it, Microsoft spent years pouring money and resources into trying to grow their phone platform. Remember they basically invented modern smartphones with Windows mobile phones--I was using 'real' web browsers on my windows mobile 5 phone as far back as 2006, years and years before the iPhone came out. They spent billions buying companies like Nokia, trying to get more developers on their platform, etc. There were at least two or three complete restarts to the whole platform. There were internal competitors even from the Xbox/game division (remember the Kin?). It just churned and churned and churned despite all resources and money thrown at it--all of it wasted in the end.
    - drunkpotato 5y ago
      Oh, thanks for the context! I never owned a Windows phone, I just played with ones other people had, same for Android. And from a total beginner perspective, Windows phone seemed a lot easier and more intuitive, but I can believe that with more use its annoyances would become more clear. That's interesting about Microsoft really trying for mobile. My recollection is that they didn't put much effort into it, but clearly I was just unaware of it. Which is, perhaps, a sign? For all its investment, perhaps it didn't have the right marketing, as I was never aware of Microsoft's efforts for Windows Phone the same way that I am for Android and iPhone.
      - to11mtm 5y ago
        There was a point where I saw a decent amount of buzz, but I also live in an area that had one of the bigger "Microsoft Stores." That said there was a point Microsoft more or less lost the plot on Windows phone, it was a few things that added up to them giving up IMO: - Being unable to negotiate with companies like Snap to bring apps to the platform. Often this was because of Microsoft's level of sandboxing which prevented certain types of low level access. - Other app developers never bothering to even try, despite the perfectly servicable APIs provided and ability to write in multiple languages. - Google was purposefully obstructive with Youtube's APIs IIRC, which eventually made the Youtube app useless. I bring up that last point, because it seems like the closer to competitive WP -got-, the more google turned the screws. Thinking very specifically about WP10 here, which really was a Swan Song for the platform; using a Widi receiver to get an ad-hoc windows desktop was pretty freaking cool in 2016.
    - chimera77 5y ago
      as far back as 2006, years and years before the iPhone came out iPhone came out in 2007, at least in the US.
      - BlueTemplar 5y ago
        Sure, but when it came out it was pretty barebones : no 3rd party apps, no 3G...
- jlcoff 5y ago
  Windows phone were pretty good. Always been happy with them, of not for the lack of developers interest.
colmvp 5y ago
How are they terrible? Having used cellphones since the 90s, my experiences with Android/Apple phones have been nothing short of remarkable and to be frank, life changing in terms of day-to-day utility.
- foobarian 5y ago
  Android hardware is weak. UI is good, app ecosystem is weaker than Apple but more free at least. Apple hardware is top notch, obviously. But I wish the software side was not so strictly controlled, look at the browser picture for example or in-app platforms or the shenanigans with the 30% cut. Then small nits like: - the alarm doesn't tell me how many hours to go when I set it - the orange silent button is an abomination that needs to go. With Apple's focus on not having any buttons I have no idea why it has lasted this long - the volume settings make no sense in the way that Android's make sense So basically I'd like some wizard to take both of those phone systems, throw them in a cauldron, stir them together, throw away the slag, and sprinkle in some extra goodness. Ahhh some day maybe ...
  - jlcoff 5y ago
    > Android hardware is weak Is it ? I'm using a 4 years old $200 phone which suits me just fine, if not for stupid apps requiring more resources for a worst experience. The only reason of upgrade is battery wearing off. Any Google related issues might be mitigated switching to LineageOS as the hardware is relatively open.
    - p_l 5y ago
      There's a certain level of truth to it, as none of the Android phone makers appear to be able to push for a customized SoC, even the ones with own designs (Samsung) appear to keep a "wall" between mobile and SoC divisions. This means that relatively easy wins like throwing a lot more cache on high end phone, are unavailable because instead they are just one of the many customers for the SoC with different priorities resulting in a compromise design.
  - NAHWheatCracker 5y ago
salil999 5y ago
I'm surprised you say the Apple ecosystem is terrible. It's arguably the best, most complete and integrated ecosystem out there currently. Of course it's not going to work well with Windows. Apple wants you to buy a Mac.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  It's hard to call the iPhone complete when it makes egregious concessions in it's capabilities in the name of "safety" (which turns out to be a moot-point anyways, as sufficently funded state actors have proven to us over the past few months).
  - jolux 5y ago
    Security is not moot just because state actors can break it, that's basically expected. The idea is to give everyone below the level of a state a harder time.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      If all that effort didn't come at the expense of user agency, I'd be inclined to agree. Instead, it looks like an increasingly toothless justification to prevent people from undermining the App Store's profitability. The security theater isn't as convincing when their puppets are falling apart in their hands.
      - jolux 5y ago
        But it's not security theater. Sandboxing and strong isolation is one of the oldest techniques around for increasing security. iOS has the least malware of any OS. The security measures it contains would appear to be extremely good at keeping out threats that plague many other platforms.
        smoldesu 5y ago
        Sandboxing and strong isolation are not mutually exclusive with allowing third-party sources to install apps. If their sandboxing is as good as you say it is, there should be no security threat imposed by allowing other apps on the device. The two should be distinct, separate threat models, but Apple conflates them.
rr808 5y ago
Right now due to my lack of self control a lack of apps is a bonus. I just need a maps, camera, uber that's about it.
- seabriez 5y ago
  I know I noticed that iPhone hasnt really made my life better. It only has wasted a TON of time. Sometimes I wish I just had a flip phone, but FOMO is strong to give it up. Maybe one day.
meowkit 5y ago
The OS is in the middle of an internal refactor which will make a modern mobile edition (with support for all chipsets/apps on launch) more feasible in the future. In an odd turn of events the hardware has exceeded the software in the case of Surface supporting Android on the Duo.
- woldenron 5y ago
  > The OS is in the middle of an internal refactor which will make a modern mobile edition Could you elaborate? Is there any info on that?
nly 5y ago
Personally I wouldn't be surprised if they take another crack at it and succeed at some point. Microsoft is in it to play the long game.
excalibur 5y ago
They did. I had one. It was not the worst. They gave up because precious few of you also did.

Can Microsoft please make a Windows phone after all? Both Apple and Android ecosystems and hardware together are terrible in various ways and don't work well with Windows.

rafale 5y ago

They did. It was called Windows Phone... It came out too late, offered too little.

drunkpotato 5y ago
It was pretty good. Seemed better than Android at the time. I'm not sure why Microsoft didn't put as much oomph into it as they did for, say, the Xbox, but if they had it might be a major player now.
- qbasic_forever 5y ago
  I had a HTC windows phone and it was not good in my experience. The app store was non-existent, the OS forced you into using its own social media experiences which were half implemented and janky vs. native apps, and the web browser was slow and clunky for the era (2010s). The home screen was enormously painful with all kinds of different sized icons strewn about and blinking, changing, etc. randomly--I could never find anything in the same place. The only good thing I could say is that the settings were much simpler and easier to navigate than apple or android phones at the time. But that was really more because there was far less you could change or do in windows phones. As far as effort put into it, Microsoft spent years pouring money and resources into trying to grow their phone platform. Remember they basically invented modern smartphones with Windows mobile phones--I was using 'real' web browsers on my windows mobile 5 phone as far back as 2006, years and years before the iPhone came out. They spent billions buying companies like Nokia, trying to get more developers on their platform, etc. There were at least two or three complete restarts to the whole platform. There were internal competitors even from the Xbox/game division (remember the Kin?). It just churned and churned and churned despite all resources and money thrown at it--all of it wasted in the end.
  - drunkpotato 5y ago
    Oh, thanks for the context! I never owned a Windows phone, I just played with ones other people had, same for Android. And from a total beginner perspective, Windows phone seemed a lot easier and more intuitive, but I can believe that with more use its annoyances would become more clear. That's interesting about Microsoft really trying for mobile. My recollection is that they didn't put much effort into it, but clearly I was just unaware of it. Which is, perhaps, a sign? For all its investment, perhaps it didn't have the right marketing, as I was never aware of Microsoft's efforts for Windows Phone the same way that I am for Android and iPhone.
    - to11mtm 5y ago
      There was a point where I saw a decent amount of buzz, but I also live in an area that had one of the bigger "Microsoft Stores." That said there was a point Microsoft more or less lost the plot on Windows phone, it was a few things that added up to them giving up IMO: - Being unable to negotiate with companies like Snap to bring apps to the platform. Often this was because of Microsoft's level of sandboxing which prevented certain types of low level access. - Other app developers never bothering to even try, despite the perfectly servicable APIs provided and ability to write in multiple languages. - Google was purposefully obstructive with Youtube's APIs IIRC, which eventually made the Youtube app useless. I bring up that last point, because it seems like the closer to competitive WP -got-, the more google turned the screws. Thinking very specifically about WP10 here, which really was a Swan Song for the platform; using a Widi receiver to get an ad-hoc windows desktop was pretty freaking cool in 2016.
  - chimera77 5y ago
    as far back as 2006, years and years before the iPhone came out iPhone came out in 2007, at least in the US.
    - BlueTemplar 5y ago
      Sure, but when it came out it was pretty barebones : no 3rd party apps, no 3G...
jlcoff 5y ago
Windows phone were pretty good. Always been happy with them, of not for the lack of developers interest.

colmvp 5y ago

How are they terrible? Having used cellphones since the 90s, my experiences with Android/Apple phones have been nothing short of remarkable and to be frank, life changing in terms of day-to-day utility.

foobarian 5y ago
Android hardware is weak. UI is good, app ecosystem is weaker than Apple but more free at least. Apple hardware is top notch, obviously. But I wish the software side was not so strictly controlled, look at the browser picture for example or in-app platforms or the shenanigans with the 30% cut. Then small nits like: - the alarm doesn't tell me how many hours to go when I set it - the orange silent button is an abomination that needs to go. With Apple's focus on not having any buttons I have no idea why it has lasted this long - the volume settings make no sense in the way that Android's make sense So basically I'd like some wizard to take both of those phone systems, throw them in a cauldron, stir them together, throw away the slag, and sprinkle in some extra goodness. Ahhh some day maybe ...
- jlcoff 5y ago
  > Android hardware is weak Is it ? I'm using a 4 years old $200 phone which suits me just fine, if not for stupid apps requiring more resources for a worst experience. The only reason of upgrade is battery wearing off. Any Google related issues might be mitigated switching to LineageOS as the hardware is relatively open.
  - p_l 5y ago
    There's a certain level of truth to it, as none of the Android phone makers appear to be able to push for a customized SoC, even the ones with own designs (Samsung) appear to keep a "wall" between mobile and SoC divisions. This means that relatively easy wins like throwing a lot more cache on high end phone, are unavailable because instead they are just one of the many customers for the SoC with different priorities resulting in a compromise design.
- NAHWheatCracker 5y ago

salil999 5y ago

I'm surprised you say the Apple ecosystem is terrible. It's arguably the best, most complete and integrated ecosystem out there currently. Of course it's not going to work well with Windows. Apple wants you to buy a Mac.

smoldesu 5y ago
It's hard to call the iPhone complete when it makes egregious concessions in it's capabilities in the name of "safety" (which turns out to be a moot-point anyways, as sufficently funded state actors have proven to us over the past few months).
- jolux 5y ago
  Security is not moot just because state actors can break it, that's basically expected. The idea is to give everyone below the level of a state a harder time.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    If all that effort didn't come at the expense of user agency, I'd be inclined to agree. Instead, it looks like an increasingly toothless justification to prevent people from undermining the App Store's profitability. The security theater isn't as convincing when their puppets are falling apart in their hands.
    - jolux 5y ago
      But it's not security theater. Sandboxing and strong isolation is one of the oldest techniques around for increasing security. iOS has the least malware of any OS. The security measures it contains would appear to be extremely good at keeping out threats that plague many other platforms.
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        Sandboxing and strong isolation are not mutually exclusive with allowing third-party sources to install apps. If their sandboxing is as good as you say it is, there should be no security threat imposed by allowing other apps on the device. The two should be distinct, separate threat models, but Apple conflates them.

rr808 5y ago

Right now due to my lack of self control a lack of apps is a bonus. I just need a maps, camera, uber that's about it.

seabriez 5y ago
I know I noticed that iPhone hasnt really made my life better. It only has wasted a TON of time. Sometimes I wish I just had a flip phone, but FOMO is strong to give it up. Maybe one day.

meowkit 5y ago

The OS is in the middle of an internal refactor which will make a modern mobile edition (with support for all chipsets/apps on launch) more feasible in the future. In an odd turn of events the hardware has exceeded the software in the case of Surface supporting Android on the Duo.

woldenron 5y ago
> The OS is in the middle of an internal refactor which will make a modern mobile edition Could you elaborate? Is there any info on that?

nly 5y ago

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if they take another crack at it and succeed at some point. Microsoft is in it to play the long game.

excalibur 5y ago

They did. I had one. It was not the worst. They gave up because precious few of you also did.