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This seems like you’re using a relatively uncommon tooling setup (no language server, some kind of inline vim errors rather than the command line), and expectin

This seems like you’re using a relatively uncommon tooling setup (no language server, some kind of inline vim errors rather than the command line), and expecting that to “just work.” As a user of arcane tools, it seems to me a slightly unreasonable expectation. If you’re not going to go down the “golden path” of using rust—analyzer, you’ll need to assume that your editor’s support for the language may be incomplete out of the gate and figure out how to supplement it. Even with rust-analyzer, the source of truth is always `cargo check` and friends, so I recommend getting super familiar with them on the command line, regardless of your editor setup.

camgunz 5y ago
Yeah no you're definitely right, I'm definitely not in the golden path for Rust dev. I guess my quibbles (which I would cop to being quibbles... I think anyway) are: - I'm already using 'cargo check' as my linter (rustc doesn't understand modules, seemingly). - My setup works for JavaScript/React/Svelte, SQL, C/C++, Python, and Go. - It can't be the case that (Neo)Vim + Ale [0] is arcane. Also the link in "Tools" from rust-lang.org goes to the rust.vim repo, which defaults to Syntastic, which I'm pretty sure has the same issue. I don't necessarily think I should extrapolate from my experience to a broader "Rust is different for little/no gain" critique I've made in the past, but I sure want to haha. And to kind of anticipate a little, I wouldn't blame Ale here because--again--it works for everything else. But anyway, yeah I've mostly given up on linting and I just run 'cargo check' in a terminal buffer now. It's probably something as simple as adding a command-line argument to... idk cargo or rustc to make the additional "help" format a little more amenable to Ale? Maybe I'll take a crack at it when I get some time. [0]: https://github.com/dense-analysis/ale https://github.com/dense-analysis/ale
- estebank 5y ago
  cargo/rustc can already provide all its output as structured json, including the appropriate byte position to apply substitutions suggested in help blocks.
  - camgunz 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure that's already how it works yeah, then yeah maybe adding some smarts to ALE is the right thing to do here? Unclear without looking into it more.
    - mplanchard 5y ago
      I haven’t used ALE in a while, and my colleague who uses vim uses CoC, but as far as I understand, rust-analyzer should “just work” with ALE. You may need to install rust-analyzer (via cargo) and tell ALE to use it, potentially? There’s an older and not well maintained language server called RLS. I would be surprised if ALE defaults to that one, but that could be part of why you aren’t getting great tooling out of the box if so. I did find this blog post, which seems to suggest there may be a bit of extra config required to get rust-analyzer going with ALE: https://petermalmgren.com/rc-batch-day-9/ https://petermalmgren.com/rc-batch-day-9/ Good luck!
      - camgunz 5y ago
        Yeah I think maybe I'll just come around to rust-analyzer? My experiences with language servers has been really spotty: they lose the state, eat CPU, want to autocomplete everything, etc. But idk, if it's a "this is the way" thing, I guess part of learning is adopting the customs. Just feels a little disappointing I can get by with like goimports/gofmt/go vet in Go, but there's no analog in Rust.
        mplanchard 5y ago
        Honestly I kind of thought ALE was exclusively a language server client, but it’s been a few years since I used it
        camgunz 5y ago
        Oh no, the nice thing about it is you can basically configure it to do whatever you want. You can choose linters or fixers, lint/fix on save or on a configured "I've left insert mode" lag, etc. etc. It's actually really amazing [0]. One of the things I've really enjoyed about the Free Software ecosystem is choice, like mostly before Rails the attitude was "we don't presume to know the best anything, here are some options." I'm not saying there aren't tradeoffs (complexity, bitrot, 7 half-baked options vs. 1 incredible one), only that I kind of low-key resent the "opinionated" software that's out there. I guess I don't really see it as opinionated (like I think Rails' convention over configuration was actually a pretty good idea and exemplifies the "execute" phase of the explore/execute cycle of tooling), I see it as "flashy and targets the 80% use-case to get mindshare". To be clear, I don't think rust-analyzer is that opinionated or flashy or lazy. I think it's awesome. But Rust's linting story is essentially "why would you use anything besides rust-analyzer, language servers are awesome and have no downsides." Which like, yeah they do. [0]: https://github.com/dense-analysis/ale/blob/master/doc/ale.txt https://github.com/dense-analysis/ale/blob/master/doc/ale.tx...

camgunz 5y ago

Yeah no you're definitely right, I'm definitely not in the golden path for Rust dev. I guess my quibbles (which I would cop to being quibbles... I think anyway) are: - I'm already using 'cargo check' as my linter (rustc doesn't understand modules, seemingly). - My setup works for JavaScript/React/Svelte, SQL, C/C++, Python, and Go. - It can't be the case that (Neo)Vim + Ale [0] is arcane. Also the link in "Tools" from rust-lang.org goes to the rust.vim repo, which defaults to Syntastic, which I'm pretty sure has the same issue. I don't necessarily think I should extrapolate from my experience to a broader "Rust is different for little/no gain" critique I've made in the past, but I sure want to haha. And to kind of anticipate a little, I wouldn't blame Ale here because--again--it works for everything else. But anyway, yeah I've mostly given up on linting and I just run 'cargo check' in a terminal buffer now. It's probably something as simple as adding a command-line argument to... idk cargo or rustc to make the additional "help" format a little more amenable to Ale? Maybe I'll take a crack at it when I get some time. [0]: https://github.com/dense-analysis/ale https://github.com/dense-analysis/ale

estebank 5y ago
cargo/rustc can already provide all its output as structured json, including the appropriate byte position to apply substitutions suggested in help blocks.
- camgunz 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure that's already how it works yeah, then yeah maybe adding some smarts to ALE is the right thing to do here? Unclear without looking into it more.
  - mplanchard 5y ago
    I haven’t used ALE in a while, and my colleague who uses vim uses CoC, but as far as I understand, rust-analyzer should “just work” with ALE. You may need to install rust-analyzer (via cargo) and tell ALE to use it, potentially? There’s an older and not well maintained language server called RLS. I would be surprised if ALE defaults to that one, but that could be part of why you aren’t getting great tooling out of the box if so. I did find this blog post, which seems to suggest there may be a bit of extra config required to get rust-analyzer going with ALE: https://petermalmgren.com/rc-batch-day-9/ https://petermalmgren.com/rc-batch-day-9/ Good luck!
    - camgunz 5y ago
      Yeah I think maybe I'll just come around to rust-analyzer? My experiences with language servers has been really spotty: they lose the state, eat CPU, want to autocomplete everything, etc. But idk, if it's a "this is the way" thing, I guess part of learning is adopting the customs. Just feels a little disappointing I can get by with like goimports/gofmt/go vet in Go, but there's no analog in Rust.
      - mplanchard 5y ago
        Honestly I kind of thought ALE was exclusively a language server client, but it’s been a few years since I used it
        camgunz 5y ago
        Oh no, the nice thing about it is you can basically configure it to do whatever you want. You can choose linters or fixers, lint/fix on save or on a configured "I've left insert mode" lag, etc. etc. It's actually really amazing [0]. One of the things I've really enjoyed about the Free Software ecosystem is choice, like mostly before Rails the attitude was "we don't presume to know the best anything, here are some options." I'm not saying there aren't tradeoffs (complexity, bitrot, 7 half-baked options vs. 1 incredible one), only that I kind of low-key resent the "opinionated" software that's out there. I guess I don't really see it as opinionated (like I think Rails' convention over configuration was actually a pretty good idea and exemplifies the "execute" phase of the explore/execute cycle of tooling), I see it as "flashy and targets the 80% use-case to get mindshare". To be clear, I don't think rust-analyzer is that opinionated or flashy or lazy. I think it's awesome. But Rust's linting story is essentially "why would you use anything besides rust-analyzer, language servers are awesome and have no downsides." Which like, yeah they do. [0]: https://github.com/dense-analysis/ale/blob/master/doc/ale.txt https://github.com/dense-analysis/ale/blob/master/doc/ale.tx...