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Seems like the depopulation timebomb and immigration crisis have the same solution. 1) Rich, educated countries have low population growth, but we need a growi

Seems like the depopulation timebomb and immigration crisis have the same solution. 1) Rich, educated countries have low population growth, but we need a growing population to grow economically (we need to grow economically for our current debt/prosperity scheme to function) 2) People in poor or war torn places want to come to places with more opportunity and less risk of random murder. Cue the SpongeBob meme “take the people who want to come here and work and put them over with the people who want people to work for them.” Didn’t the US drastically reduce their H1B visa count recently for no real reason? Wouldn’t we be better off increasing and expanding that sort of program rather that reducing it? How many asylum seekers are trained in medicine, engineering, dentistry, carpentry or any of a dozen occupations in short supply? Heck, if we wanted we could pick while cohorts of refugees with complementary skills, plop them down in depressed midwestern towns and have thriving communities immediately. I’ve know software engineers with master’s degrees from Scandinavian universities who had to leave the country because their visas couldn’t be transferred or renewed in a reasonable time. I know a Korean asylum seeker who has had a pending case for literally years. she’d be thrilled to take any job. She’s an educated, capable white collar worker. She can’t work because her case will be another couple years churning through a system that could literally be replaced with 20 lines of if else statements. There are plenty of skilled, capable, interested people just waiting for permission to come solve the problem. All we have to do is stop blocking them.

questiondev 5y ago
it’s not really that people don’t want to work in the states, for some it was lack of social support, outstanding college debt that made the bar to entry seem impossible or to late for some. especially for those who took care of their parents growing up because their parents were sick at a young age.
Proven 5y ago
015UUZn8aEvW 5y ago
If enough of this happens, the world will become a giant shopping mall in which everyone is from everywhere and no one has anything in common. No common culture, history, identity, ancestry, anything. The distinctions between countries will become meaningless; an America filled with H1B workers will be the same as a Canada filled with their neighbors from back home. Sounds depressing. Personally, I'll settle for lower GDP.
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  What's the point of having a culture if you can't boast that other cultures are inferior, right? To offer a less sarcastic remark, let me point out that you seem to be claiming both that there would be "no common culture" and that "America ... will be the same as ... Canada", i.e. there will be a common culture, but it will be shared by everyone. You could certainly make a strong argument that this monoculture would prevent cultural innovation, but I don't actually think there would be a monoculture, just as there are multiple evolving cultures present within countries today, and in fact a given person can feel an affinity to multiple cultures simultaneously.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  > No common culture, history, identity, ancestry, anything. The EU has freedom of movement and very vibrant local cultures. Arguably, the same is true of the U.S. Even many individual cities within countries maintain strong identities that set them apart from other places. There are valid reasons to argue that totally open borders are unrealistic; but to think that they'll ever lead to a monoculture is quite baseless.
  - GauntletWizard 5y ago
    The Schengen area has existed for about 25 years. The EU for less than 30. There's no common language, but English as the language of businesses is already beginning to dominate. The USA had many rich local cultures, and to some extent still does - there's a lot of regional differences. But it also has ghettos and isolation, and an awful lot of senseless racial tension. Is cultural melding inevitable? Maybe, maybe not. But you can't take a mere generation of EU freedom of movement as an indicator of end-state.
nopenopenopeno 5y ago
Trump increased the H1B visa count for the same reason the US always does: cheap labor for corporate America. And it is no coincidence that stagnating American wages for 4 decades results in child births dropping off a cliff. This is not complicated stuff.
- N1H1L 5y ago
  The H1B visa count is capped. It cannot be increased.
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  > stagnating American wages for 4 decades results in child births dropping off a cliff Could you also point out the trends for other countries' wages and birth rates? While you're at it, some charts comparing immigration rates and average wages could be really informative too, thanks.
- thumbsup-_- 5y ago
  > cheap labor for corporate America On H1b I make 400k in an industry that has 120k avg pay for my role. Tell me more about cheap H1b labor
  - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
    Are you trying to suggest American wages have not been stagnated for 40 years? What is your argument?
    - dane-pgp 5y ago
      Presumably the argument is that some percentage of immigrants are paid above average, so it's not the case that all corporations only want immigrants in order to pay lower wages. It could instead be that there aren't enough people within the country who have the skills to do the high wage jobs (as presumably the locals would happily take those jobs if they were available, but might refuse to do the low wage jobs that immigrants are willing to do). You're right that this isn't evidence that wages haven't stagnated, but similarly you haven't produced any evidence that immigration has caused wage stagnation, other than a supposed correlation between the (generally accepted) wage stagnation over the last 40 years on the one hand, and on the other hand, a vague implication that immigration suddenly started 40 years ago and has since that time consistently and coincidentally been just enough to cancel out any wage growth.
naravara 5y ago
The other option is for developed countries to just get comfortable with focusing on better distribution of the wealth they have and give up on maintaining growth ad infinitum.
mrkentutbabi 5y ago
Too much diversity is really really really bad.
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  I think the threshold for too much diversity is high. Going to college exposed me to a lot of different people and cultures. Despite a few misunderstandings it seemed great for everyone. The only real downside I can see is if immigrants become isolated in enclaves or the 'natives' are xenophobic. (Ultimately we're all immigrants unless you belong to a demographic that evolved where you live today.)
  - mrkentutbabi 5y ago
    That was my view 8 years ago, before I came to USA. It was great for a few years. Now I am not a believer anymore.
    - paulryanrogers 5y ago
      May I ask what changed?
- stirfish 5y ago
  Why?
  - mrkentutbabi 5y ago
    Cultures clash. Life principles clash. Non compromising ideals clash. This is the reality of this world. Boundaries and fences are healthy. I’m not saying diversity is bad, like what majority of people here accuse.
masonic 5y ago
>plop them down in depressed midwestern towns ... which they would immediately leave in favor of areas with extant support systems for immigrants of the same culture. Immigrants don't go where they are needed; they go/stay where they can attain the highest standard of living with minimum effort. That's how New York City grew.
ryanlol 5y ago
> I know a Korean asylum seeker who has had a pending case for literally years I’m curious, what do Koreans need to seek asylum from? Doesn’t South Korea have a pretty good human rights record? Presumably those coming from the North have a very easy time in the South?

questiondev 5y ago

it’s not really that people don’t want to work in the states, for some it was lack of social support, outstanding college debt that made the bar to entry seem impossible or to late for some. especially for those who took care of their parents growing up because their parents were sick at a young age.

Proven 5y ago

015UUZn8aEvW 5y ago

If enough of this happens, the world will become a giant shopping mall in which everyone is from everywhere and no one has anything in common. No common culture, history, identity, ancestry, anything. The distinctions between countries will become meaningless; an America filled with H1B workers will be the same as a Canada filled with their neighbors from back home. Sounds depressing. Personally, I'll settle for lower GDP.

dane-pgp 5y ago
What's the point of having a culture if you can't boast that other cultures are inferior, right? To offer a less sarcastic remark, let me point out that you seem to be claiming both that there would be "no common culture" and that "America ... will be the same as ... Canada", i.e. there will be a common culture, but it will be shared by everyone. You could certainly make a strong argument that this monoculture would prevent cultural innovation, but I don't actually think there would be a monoculture, just as there are multiple evolving cultures present within countries today, and in fact a given person can feel an affinity to multiple cultures simultaneously.
zozbot234 5y ago
> No common culture, history, identity, ancestry, anything. The EU has freedom of movement and very vibrant local cultures. Arguably, the same is true of the U.S. Even many individual cities within countries maintain strong identities that set them apart from other places. There are valid reasons to argue that totally open borders are unrealistic; but to think that they'll ever lead to a monoculture is quite baseless.
- GauntletWizard 5y ago
  The Schengen area has existed for about 25 years. The EU for less than 30. There's no common language, but English as the language of businesses is already beginning to dominate. The USA had many rich local cultures, and to some extent still does - there's a lot of regional differences. But it also has ghettos and isolation, and an awful lot of senseless racial tension. Is cultural melding inevitable? Maybe, maybe not. But you can't take a mere generation of EU freedom of movement as an indicator of end-state.

nopenopenopeno 5y ago

Trump increased the H1B visa count for the same reason the US always does: cheap labor for corporate America. And it is no coincidence that stagnating American wages for 4 decades results in child births dropping off a cliff. This is not complicated stuff.

N1H1L 5y ago
The H1B visa count is capped. It cannot be increased.
dane-pgp 5y ago
> stagnating American wages for 4 decades results in child births dropping off a cliff Could you also point out the trends for other countries' wages and birth rates? While you're at it, some charts comparing immigration rates and average wages could be really informative too, thanks.
thumbsup-_- 5y ago
> cheap labor for corporate America On H1b I make 400k in an industry that has 120k avg pay for my role. Tell me more about cheap H1b labor
- nopenopenopeno 5y ago
  Are you trying to suggest American wages have not been stagnated for 40 years? What is your argument?
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    Presumably the argument is that some percentage of immigrants are paid above average, so it's not the case that all corporations only want immigrants in order to pay lower wages. It could instead be that there aren't enough people within the country who have the skills to do the high wage jobs (as presumably the locals would happily take those jobs if they were available, but might refuse to do the low wage jobs that immigrants are willing to do). You're right that this isn't evidence that wages haven't stagnated, but similarly you haven't produced any evidence that immigration has caused wage stagnation, other than a supposed correlation between the (generally accepted) wage stagnation over the last 40 years on the one hand, and on the other hand, a vague implication that immigration suddenly started 40 years ago and has since that time consistently and coincidentally been just enough to cancel out any wage growth.

naravara 5y ago

The other option is for developed countries to just get comfortable with focusing on better distribution of the wealth they have and give up on maintaining growth ad infinitum.

mrkentutbabi 5y ago

Too much diversity is really really really bad.

paulryanrogers 5y ago
I think the threshold for too much diversity is high. Going to college exposed me to a lot of different people and cultures. Despite a few misunderstandings it seemed great for everyone. The only real downside I can see is if immigrants become isolated in enclaves or the 'natives' are xenophobic. (Ultimately we're all immigrants unless you belong to a demographic that evolved where you live today.)
- mrkentutbabi 5y ago
  That was my view 8 years ago, before I came to USA. It was great for a few years. Now I am not a believer anymore.
  - paulryanrogers 5y ago
    May I ask what changed?
stirfish 5y ago
Why?
- mrkentutbabi 5y ago
  Cultures clash. Life principles clash. Non compromising ideals clash. This is the reality of this world. Boundaries and fences are healthy. I’m not saying diversity is bad, like what majority of people here accuse.

masonic 5y ago

>plop them down in depressed midwestern towns ... which they would immediately leave in favor of areas with extant support systems for immigrants of the same culture. Immigrants don't go where they are needed; they go/stay where they can attain the highest standard of living with minimum effort. That's how New York City grew.

ryanlol 5y ago

> I know a Korean asylum seeker who has had a pending case for literally years I’m curious, what do Koreans need to seek asylum from? Doesn’t South Korea have a pretty good human rights record? Presumably those coming from the North have a very easy time in the South?