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I'm on carnivore, and although fruits are no-no (for me at least), in my own research they're better than grains and other vegetables. Unlike leafy vegetables,

I'm on carnivore, and although fruits are no-no (for me at least), in my own research they're better than grains and other vegetables. Unlike leafy vegetables, most fruits are evolved to be eaten by animals, and have the seeds pooped out or discarded in the ground. That's why they taste so fricking good. Though evolution didn't make them this big and full of sugar, we did. And then we juice them so you can consume 20 apples in one sip, and call that healthy. In my eyes and personal opinion, the diet we are most genetically optimal for is high fat, mostly carnivore, with seasonal fruits and berries, and remembering that modern fruits are nothing like what we have been eating for hundreds of thousands of years. And ideally insects, though they weren't a huge part of our diet. We after all are big herbivore hunters and scavengers.

deeviant 5y ago
Wait, are you actually serious? You don't eat fruits or vegetables because you think they are unhealthy?
- brnt 5y ago
  Fruits have a ton of sugar, which I both don't need and don't really like. OTOH, you can pry my veg from my cold dead hands.
  - deeviant 5y ago
    Pretty much every study ever has found a correlation of more fruits = healthier. That majority of studies just group fruits and vegetables together because they basically have the same effect as vegetables in terms of above correlation. Fruit juices however, totally worthless, just as bad as sugar.
    - 1_player 5y ago
      Healthier than what? "Healthy" doesn't exist in a vacuum. Fat is healthy in a vacuum, fat with a carb heavy diet causes metabolic syndrome. Fruit is healthy in a vacuum, but anything containing fructose, fibre or not, isn't great when you have metabolic syndrome, insulin issues or non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. Plenty of nutritional studies are completely worthless for this reason. There is no double-blind, randomised and controlled dietary studies.
      - commoner 5y ago
        > In the 2 prospective cohorts with many repeated measurements of diet and up to 30 years of follow-up, we observed that a higher intake of fruit and vegetables was associated with a lower risk of total mortality and cause-specific mortality in a nonlinear manner. Our analysis in the NHS and the HPFS and in a meta-analysis of 26 prospective cohort studies documented that intake of ≈5 servings of fruits and vegetables daily was associated with the lowest mortality, and higher intake was not associated with additional risk reductions in mortality. The thresholds of risk reduction in mortality were 2 servings daily for fruit intake and 3 servings daily for vegetable intake. Higher intakes of most subgroups of fruit and vegetables were inversely associated with mortality, whereas intakes of starchy vegetables, fruit juices, and potatoes were not associated with mortality. https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.120.048996 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.120.0... A study doesn't need to be "double-blind, randomised and controlled" to have value. This study of 108,000+ people over 28-30 years is going to be more pertinent to the average person than, for example, an anecdote.
- 1_player 5y ago
  I eat some, but very little. 99% of my calories comes from animal foods. I do not think they are _unhealthy_, but there are some benefits in restricting them in some cases. In mine, cures _my_ digestive and mood issues. One is caused by whacked intestinal flora, and once your gut is completely destroyed, nutrient malabsorption caused by phytates and other phytochemicals worsen into systemic issues, including mood disturbances and inflammation. In my case, the experiment has been an absolute success, but I often succumb to the temptation of a pizza and I'm 5 steps back. Long term, I will reintroduce some as they are benign, but grains are actually bad for me. Gluten is even worse, again, for me. There is more, but this is good enough for an internet comment. The science is a google search away.
  - arvinsim 5y ago
    Thank you for bringing this up. It means that I am not crazy when I notice that I get really tired after eating certain foods.
  - zoover2020 5y ago
    What types of meat do you eat? How does a normal day of eating work like that?
    - 1_player 5y ago
      3/4 of what I eat is organic, pasture-raised beef, pork and lamb from family owned farms, the rest is meat from supermarkets just because it's cheaper and sustainable meat is hard on the wallet. I hate cooking, I hate having to do it twice a day, so for me it's mostly grill/oven/pressure cook and eat 500g of meat twice a day with a little salt and spices. If I feel the need for more energy, butter or high quality organic ghee is added. Hunger is non existent, and I figure I'm naturally eating at a 20% deficit, because I have fat around me and my body knows it. Blood sugar perfectly stable at 5.5mmol/L, which feels incredible. But vegs works great as a treat. Today I had a simple salad with my steak and it was lovely, though I'm a little gassier now. If you use Reddit, look into /r/carnivore or /r/zerocarb.
      - 5y ago
Baloo 5y ago
Funny how things are between people. I hugely cut down on meat and mainly eat fruit and veg, with some chicken and fish but rarely red meat. I too feel better than ever, lots of energy.
hiptobecubic 5y ago
I will never understand how people can go around saying things like, "In my personal opinion, the diet we are genetically optimal for.." You are not interpreting genetic information. You are speculating about human evolutionary history and what "paleo" means.

deeviant 5y ago

Wait, are you actually serious? You don't eat fruits or vegetables because you think they are unhealthy?

brnt 5y ago
Fruits have a ton of sugar, which I both don't need and don't really like. OTOH, you can pry my veg from my cold dead hands.
- deeviant 5y ago
  Pretty much every study ever has found a correlation of more fruits = healthier. That majority of studies just group fruits and vegetables together because they basically have the same effect as vegetables in terms of above correlation. Fruit juices however, totally worthless, just as bad as sugar.
  - 1_player 5y ago
    Healthier than what? "Healthy" doesn't exist in a vacuum. Fat is healthy in a vacuum, fat with a carb heavy diet causes metabolic syndrome. Fruit is healthy in a vacuum, but anything containing fructose, fibre or not, isn't great when you have metabolic syndrome, insulin issues or non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. Plenty of nutritional studies are completely worthless for this reason. There is no double-blind, randomised and controlled dietary studies.
    - commoner 5y ago
      > In the 2 prospective cohorts with many repeated measurements of diet and up to 30 years of follow-up, we observed that a higher intake of fruit and vegetables was associated with a lower risk of total mortality and cause-specific mortality in a nonlinear manner. Our analysis in the NHS and the HPFS and in a meta-analysis of 26 prospective cohort studies documented that intake of ≈5 servings of fruits and vegetables daily was associated with the lowest mortality, and higher intake was not associated with additional risk reductions in mortality. The thresholds of risk reduction in mortality were 2 servings daily for fruit intake and 3 servings daily for vegetable intake. Higher intakes of most subgroups of fruit and vegetables were inversely associated with mortality, whereas intakes of starchy vegetables, fruit juices, and potatoes were not associated with mortality. https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.120.048996 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.120.0... A study doesn't need to be "double-blind, randomised and controlled" to have value. This study of 108,000+ people over 28-30 years is going to be more pertinent to the average person than, for example, an anecdote.
1_player 5y ago
I eat some, but very little. 99% of my calories comes from animal foods. I do not think they are _unhealthy_, but there are some benefits in restricting them in some cases. In mine, cures _my_ digestive and mood issues. One is caused by whacked intestinal flora, and once your gut is completely destroyed, nutrient malabsorption caused by phytates and other phytochemicals worsen into systemic issues, including mood disturbances and inflammation. In my case, the experiment has been an absolute success, but I often succumb to the temptation of a pizza and I'm 5 steps back. Long term, I will reintroduce some as they are benign, but grains are actually bad for me. Gluten is even worse, again, for me. There is more, but this is good enough for an internet comment. The science is a google search away.
- arvinsim 5y ago
  Thank you for bringing this up. It means that I am not crazy when I notice that I get really tired after eating certain foods.
- zoover2020 5y ago
  What types of meat do you eat? How does a normal day of eating work like that?
  - 1_player 5y ago
    3/4 of what I eat is organic, pasture-raised beef, pork and lamb from family owned farms, the rest is meat from supermarkets just because it's cheaper and sustainable meat is hard on the wallet. I hate cooking, I hate having to do it twice a day, so for me it's mostly grill/oven/pressure cook and eat 500g of meat twice a day with a little salt and spices. If I feel the need for more energy, butter or high quality organic ghee is added. Hunger is non existent, and I figure I'm naturally eating at a 20% deficit, because I have fat around me and my body knows it. Blood sugar perfectly stable at 5.5mmol/L, which feels incredible. But vegs works great as a treat. Today I had a simple salad with my steak and it was lovely, though I'm a little gassier now. If you use Reddit, look into /r/carnivore or /r/zerocarb.
    - 5y ago

Baloo 5y ago

Funny how things are between people. I hugely cut down on meat and mainly eat fruit and veg, with some chicken and fish but rarely red meat. I too feel better than ever, lots of energy.

hiptobecubic 5y ago

I will never understand how people can go around saying things like, "In my personal opinion, the diet we are genetically optimal for.." You are not interpreting genetic information. You are speculating about human evolutionary history and what "paleo" means.