6 ms·

This is a shibboleth virtue signal. Neither side takes it at face value

WithinReason 5y ago
I wonder if we're headed to a point where this kind of self-selection basically creates companies consisting of either people who are all about DEI, or people who only care about skills/qualification, then the market will decide which one is the winning strategy.
- gray_-_wolf 5y ago
  The DEI people seem to me like they have a tendency to try to enforce their view via legislation. So I'm skeptical about the "market will decide" part.
  - gray_-_wolf 5y ago
    Could someone comment on the down votes? The legislation is happening already, so I'm not sure why this is so controversial.
    - late2part 5y ago
      I didn't downvote you but I'll have a go. The rabid activists who are pushing their agenda of mandated quotas for special interest groups do not like it when you or others like you suggest logic and rational things that don't support their agenda. Hence, the downvote. More goodthink, citizen!
  - WithinReason 5y ago
    Maybe in the US, but then in comes down to competition with China
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    Really like a lot of things, it's both.
- version_five 5y ago
  Anecdotally, I think the companies where the focus on these sort of virtue signal things is the highest are those the least subject to market pressure. A trucking outfit competing on price is not going to waste money on a diversity officer or whatever, but a Canadian retail bank can create all sorts of elaborate bureaucracy and rituals without fear of having to actually compete.
- nathanaldensr 5y ago
  Or corrupted governments will decide. Is there a difference nowadays?
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    All you can really say there are governments that are "less corrupted" or at least "less authoritarian", they're all corrupted to the core, but some actually do good work in some cases because they have to answer at least in part to voters unlike in authoritarian countries where the only question they'll ask themselves is "will this be bad enough to incite a rebellion"
- plorkyeran 5y ago
  There's a lot more groups of companies than that. There's companies which primarily select for people from the most prestigious school or for people with connections to people who already work there, or actively avoid the candidates the DEI people would prefer even if they're clearly the best option. Companies full of people who genuinely care only about skills and qualifications are very rare and generally don't stay that way for long. You only need one person in a position of power whose goal is to hire their friends for things to go wrong.
  - ajmurmann 5y ago
    Also, laziness/efficiency or maybe constraints that the real world imposes on hiring. It's very hard to effectively gauge skill during a few hours with someone or initially during a few seconds with their resume. If you find an effective proxy metric for skill and aptitude (like a degree from a league university) and after applying that simple filter still get a sufficient number of strong hires it will be very tempting to go down that path and save time interviewing. This usually will mean dismissing people with unusual backgrounds.
rgoulter 5y ago
Many may be cynical.. but, say, Chloe Valdary's Theory of Enchantment looks wonderful. https://theoryofenchantment.com/ https://theoryofenchantment.com/ At least, I found its principles striking: 1. Treat people like human beings, not political abstractions. 2. Criticize to uplift and empower, never to tear down or destroy. 3. Root everything you do in love and compassion.
- nefitty 5y ago
  Thanks for sharing this. I'm down so far. I realized I've taken on a lot of identity-separatism baggage, even as I strive to avoid it. I'm trying to counter that by intentionally reincorporating Marxist and other class-conscious frames into the way I interpret interpersonal interactions. It's slightly embarrassing to be a professional with a chewy punk center, but I remind myself that I too am a wage laborer.
- WJW 5y ago
  It does look wonderful, but I wonder how it holds up in big organisations where your counterpart does not in fact have your best interest in mind. This can happen because either they're guarding their little fiefdom and/or because they are competing for limited promotion spots. I've seen many a team go under because some of their people behaved basically according to the Theory of Enchantment principles, and were manipulated into doing all the work by a few people spending all their time on taking the credit.

I wonder if we're headed to a point where this kind of self-selection basically creates companies consisting of either people who are all about DEI, or people who only care about skills/qualification, then the market will decide which one is the winning strategy.

gray_-_wolf 5y ago
The DEI people seem to me like they have a tendency to try to enforce their view via legislation. So I'm skeptical about the "market will decide" part.
- gray_-_wolf 5y ago
  Could someone comment on the down votes? The legislation is happening already, so I'm not sure why this is so controversial.
  - late2part 5y ago
    I didn't downvote you but I'll have a go. The rabid activists who are pushing their agenda of mandated quotas for special interest groups do not like it when you or others like you suggest logic and rational things that don't support their agenda. Hence, the downvote. More goodthink, citizen!
- WithinReason 5y ago
  Maybe in the US, but then in comes down to competition with China
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  Really like a lot of things, it's both.
version_five 5y ago
Anecdotally, I think the companies where the focus on these sort of virtue signal things is the highest are those the least subject to market pressure. A trucking outfit competing on price is not going to waste money on a diversity officer or whatever, but a Canadian retail bank can create all sorts of elaborate bureaucracy and rituals without fear of having to actually compete.
nathanaldensr 5y ago
Or corrupted governments will decide. Is there a difference nowadays?
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  All you can really say there are governments that are "less corrupted" or at least "less authoritarian", they're all corrupted to the core, but some actually do good work in some cases because they have to answer at least in part to voters unlike in authoritarian countries where the only question they'll ask themselves is "will this be bad enough to incite a rebellion"
plorkyeran 5y ago
There's a lot more groups of companies than that. There's companies which primarily select for people from the most prestigious school or for people with connections to people who already work there, or actively avoid the candidates the DEI people would prefer even if they're clearly the best option. Companies full of people who genuinely care only about skills and qualifications are very rare and generally don't stay that way for long. You only need one person in a position of power whose goal is to hire their friends for things to go wrong.
- ajmurmann 5y ago
  Also, laziness/efficiency or maybe constraints that the real world imposes on hiring. It's very hard to effectively gauge skill during a few hours with someone or initially during a few seconds with their resume. If you find an effective proxy metric for skill and aptitude (like a degree from a league university) and after applying that simple filter still get a sufficient number of strong hires it will be very tempting to go down that path and save time interviewing. This usually will mean dismissing people with unusual backgrounds.

rgoulter 5y ago

Many may be cynical.. but, say, Chloe Valdary's Theory of Enchantment looks wonderful. https://theoryofenchantment.com/ https://theoryofenchantment.com/ At least, I found its principles striking: 1. Treat people like human beings, not political abstractions. 2. Criticize to uplift and empower, never to tear down or destroy. 3. Root everything you do in love and compassion.

nefitty 5y ago
Thanks for sharing this. I'm down so far. I realized I've taken on a lot of identity-separatism baggage, even as I strive to avoid it. I'm trying to counter that by intentionally reincorporating Marxist and other class-conscious frames into the way I interpret interpersonal interactions. It's slightly embarrassing to be a professional with a chewy punk center, but I remind myself that I too am a wage laborer.
WJW 5y ago
It does look wonderful, but I wonder how it holds up in big organisations where your counterpart does not in fact have your best interest in mind. This can happen because either they're guarding their little fiefdom and/or because they are competing for limited promotion spots. I've seen many a team go under because some of their people behaved basically according to the Theory of Enchantment principles, and were manipulated into doing all the work by a few people spending all their time on taking the credit.