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They'd all start trying to find their way into project management or design or something. Being able to code is an important part of being a software developer

They'd all start trying to find their way into project management or design or something. Being able to code is an important part of being a software developer but being able to code makes you no more of a software developer than learning newton's laws of motions makes you a mechanical engineer. There are edge cases, debugging, scalability, one off errors integration, backups, etc. We tried this with VB and Acces and thedailywtf.com is rife with stories of trying to undo that mess decades later, we are going to run into the same problem with the new iteration of no code the difference this time is that we are paying per month to use it rather than just having an unsecured server in the basement running all the business critical functions.

solarkraft 5y ago
> trying to undo that mess decades later This implies that it has been used (successfully) for decades. That's a phenomenal success. Most software gets replaced after a few decades because the requirements change.
version_five 5y ago
> being able to code makes you no more of a software developer than learning newton's laws of motions makes you a mechanical engineer. Yes! I wish this point got more attention. So many articles - there was one on here from a16z today - pretend there is this magical thing called learning to code that takes a couple months and suddenly puts you on par with every software developer. The analogy I like to use is claiming that by taking an introduction to statics course you are somehow on par with an architect or engineer that is designing bridges and skyscrapers. Software development needs wide acknowledgement as an actual trade that takes a broad base of theoretical and practical learning, including time spent writing code, to be proficient, and not seen through the lens of this learn to code nonsense. I've talked to so many business people who see "coding" as a skill they could pick up if they had a couple months, that would then let them be on par with career developers - if only they weren't busy with higher value work. This is one of the big reasons why many companies are so dysfunctional
- tympious 5y ago
  This reminded me of "Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years" - http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html
- analog31 5y ago
  To the casual observer, the stereotypical age of computer programmers contradicts your claim. ;-) While I can certainly appreciate that it takes time to mature as a developer, the job market at least reinforces the idea that you can get hired at the entry level after maybe a couple years of study. My mom's programming students got hired that quickly in the 1980s. What I do think is that the small part of software development called coding is something you can learn in a couple years. At that point you may be able to perform a useful role in a larger team of developers, e.g., under the wing of a senior, giving you time to further mature as a full blown developer.
  - horns4lyfe 5y ago
    Well ya, “entry level”, you said it yourself.
leadegroot 5y ago
Yes, but it's going to be wonderful as prototyping. Then we go back and make the GUI accessible, the backend scalable, etc. People think we'll have no work - I am sure there will be even more work!
nickkell 5y ago
Yeah it turns out to be a mess, but it sometimes gets businesses off the ground. It’s crazy to think how much of the world’s software really consists of spreadsheets and macros. Would you rather have a lot of businesses operating successfully with “poor” software or much fewer businesses operating with “good” software?
- solarkraft 5y ago
  I'm way too young to have experienced this myself and maybe this is something that has over-all been forgotten, but going back a few decades and looking at computer content from the 70s/80s it's amazing how crazy people got about spreadsheets. And that's for a good reason: It was a massive productivity boost. These things have been driving our economy for a few decades at insane levels of productivity.

solarkraft 5y ago

> trying to undo that mess decades later This implies that it has been used (successfully) for decades. That's a phenomenal success. Most software gets replaced after a few decades because the requirements change.

version_five 5y ago

> being able to code makes you no more of a software developer than learning newton's laws of motions makes you a mechanical engineer. Yes! I wish this point got more attention. So many articles - there was one on here from a16z today - pretend there is this magical thing called learning to code that takes a couple months and suddenly puts you on par with every software developer. The analogy I like to use is claiming that by taking an introduction to statics course you are somehow on par with an architect or engineer that is designing bridges and skyscrapers. Software development needs wide acknowledgement as an actual trade that takes a broad base of theoretical and practical learning, including time spent writing code, to be proficient, and not seen through the lens of this learn to code nonsense. I've talked to so many business people who see "coding" as a skill they could pick up if they had a couple months, that would then let them be on par with career developers - if only they weren't busy with higher value work. This is one of the big reasons why many companies are so dysfunctional

tympious 5y ago
This reminded me of "Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years" - http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html
analog31 5y ago
To the casual observer, the stereotypical age of computer programmers contradicts your claim. ;-) While I can certainly appreciate that it takes time to mature as a developer, the job market at least reinforces the idea that you can get hired at the entry level after maybe a couple years of study. My mom's programming students got hired that quickly in the 1980s. What I do think is that the small part of software development called coding is something you can learn in a couple years. At that point you may be able to perform a useful role in a larger team of developers, e.g., under the wing of a senior, giving you time to further mature as a full blown developer.
- horns4lyfe 5y ago
  Well ya, “entry level”, you said it yourself.

leadegroot 5y ago

Yes, but it's going to be wonderful as prototyping. Then we go back and make the GUI accessible, the backend scalable, etc. People think we'll have no work - I am sure there will be even more work!

nickkell 5y ago

Yeah it turns out to be a mess, but it sometimes gets businesses off the ground. It’s crazy to think how much of the world’s software really consists of spreadsheets and macros. Would you rather have a lot of businesses operating successfully with “poor” software or much fewer businesses operating with “good” software?

solarkraft 5y ago
I'm way too young to have experienced this myself and maybe this is something that has over-all been forgotten, but going back a few decades and looking at computer content from the 70s/80s it's amazing how crazy people got about spreadsheets. And that's for a good reason: It was a massive productivity boost. These things have been driving our economy for a few decades at insane levels of productivity.