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A Padlock I’d Use [video]

152 points by CraigJPerry 5y ago

V__ 5y ago
ABUS locks should be avoided. The family that owns the company is part of the Christian Plymouth Brethren movement. Female family members are prevented from having the same participation rights, going so far as to “incentivize” them to sign contracts in which they waive their inheritance rights.
- eldenbishop 5y ago
  Interesting. I'd never heard of this sect. Also not allowed to live on the same land as their cattle. Always fascinating to read the rules and behaviors of these outlier communities.
- monkeywork 5y ago
  What alternative should be purchased instead? Lead with that information, otherwise you're not helping the person who is looking to buy a lock. I'm increasingly growing incredibly numb to calls for "don't associate with X because of Y". If you want my attention come to me with "Rather than associate with X check out Z, they offer the same service/product but aren't associated with Y". I do not have the time, energy, or interest in morally auditing every company that I do business with (like buying a freaking padlock from).
  - theshrike79 5y ago
    ABLOY locks: https://www.abloy.com/global/en-us https://www.abloy.com/global/en-us They are pretty much the gold standard for locks. They are not unpickable, but take a considerable amount of skill and specialized tooling to crack. LockPickingLawyer picking an ABLOY lock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxfUmcMzx08 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxfUmcMzx08
  - V__ 5y ago
    I agree with your point, however I am not an expert in locks and therefore didn't want to make a recommendation.
- stmfreak 5y ago
  So… how are their locks? Easy to pick? Fragile? High quality?
- gumby 5y ago
  Seems appropriate to me as “Abus” is French for “abuse”.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- heeen2 5y ago
  Do you have a source for that?
  - zinekeller 5y ago
    Unfortunately it's paywalled and in German, but according to an interview and investigation done by Süddeutsche Zeitung, they are indeed part of the Plymouth Brethen: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/abus-unternehmer-religion-1.4493053 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/abus-unternehmer-reli...
- bongwaterblack 5y ago
CraigJPerry 5y ago
I’ve never seen LPL endorse a lock before. I’ve seen him trash in plenty of locks by Abus. Long videos are pretty rare on the LPL channel. Never seems to take him anything like this long to pick a lock. I don’t even need a padlock but an endorsement like this has me thinking i should pick one of these up!
- timonoko 5y ago
  "I’ve never seen LPL endorse a lock before". Correction: First time ever LPL endorsed a lock which seemed to be relatively easy to pick, Especially with the tool LPL and Bosnian Bill made.. There are plenty of locks that LPL cannot pick, like Bowly locks and new Abloys, and that is an endorsement on itself.
- zucker42 5y ago
  He all but endorsed the Altor SAF lock, noting that it took him machining a custom tool from scratch in order to open it. He also said he personally uses the Kryptonite evolution chain lock for his bike. LPL gives positive reviews of many locks.
timonoko 5y ago
First time ever my lock picking skills were in good use. A janitor tried in vain to use power cutters on hardened bicycle lock on a shopping mall door. I entered the scene, zipped out my pocket tool kit and set to work. Luckily the core was quite traditional with only few mushrooms and spools. I trained on Love Locks on Helsinki bridges, which made some people very angry -- and I dont know why, because I put most of them back.
- pasabagi 5y ago
  For everybody who was angry, there were probably two quiet fans who were hoping you would chuck the locks in the river. A personal favourite is when the city employee comes with an angle grinder to cut them off en masse.
- stavros 5y ago
  > I trained on Love Locks on Helsinki bridges, which made some people very angry -- and I dont know why, because I put most of them back. I love this, excellent comedy. Well done.
- cafard 5y ago
  Now I want to know your criteria.
  - timonoko 5y ago
    That is easy: Two Days. If it takes several sessions to get it open, I am gonna keep it. At least until I have learned all its secrets. I have about six such in the training box right now. And one which I have opened only once ever. Inscription: "Lois & Edwin, March 2018". Yes some English people of Helsinki. Sorry Lois and Edwin, you should have choosed the cheapie version with 3 straight pins. BTW. The lock is ABUS 72/40. Some springs are very weak, so it may be that some pins are stuck.
    - codezero 5y ago
      72/40 can be extremely evasive with the right bitting, I love those little things.
legitster 5y ago
I've watched a ton of LPL videos, but I think they have had the opposite of the intended effect on me. I've now been convinced that if someone wants to pick a lock, they pretty much can. So I just buy the cheapest lock with the strongest shackle.
- whartung 5y ago
  I personally feel that his channel over represents the risk to picking. Not intentionally, just simply as a byproduct of watching locks getting picked quickly by an expert in laboratory conditions. A most recent example was a contractor working on my house had his van compromised and his tools stolen. No lock picking here, the thief punched a hole in the door, just below the lock with, probably, a large screwdriver, and he was in within seconds. However, as a counterpoint, it should be noted that while everywhere else I saw a soda machine they had those typical, ubiquitous cylinder key locks, the machines in the engineering building in college were all Abloy. So, you know, there's that anecdata. Not that it helped much, turned out if you put money in the machine, held down the soda selection, and power cycled the machine, it would happily dispense a fresh soda. Rinse repeat, Pepsis for everyone!
  - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
    LPL does more than just picking including destructive attacks to the lock shackle, body, etc. He’s also reviewed bags and such where he simply cuts through to show ineffectiveness.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    That reminds me of the time, way back when I was a teenager and hung out with the wrong crowd, I learned (and saw demonstrated!) that soda vending machines of the time were trivial to steal from. It probably did a fair amount of damage. Take a soda bottle filled with salt water, blast it into the coin slot, start pushing the buttons and watch all the cans get dispensed. Not necessary to muck about with the lock.
- cogman10 5y ago
  The takeaway I've consistently gotten is "Don't buy MasterLock" A lot of the other examples of locks do show that a skilled picker can get through in almost no time. There are a few designs that are better than others, but not by a whole lot.
unstatusthequo 5y ago
I had a seriously heavy Abus lock on my storage unit. Extremely difficult to pick and hardened but the thief apparently used a diamond circular grinder to just cut the shackle. I still use those locks, and they are solid. But as with anything, it seems if a nefarious actor wants to get in, they will. Just a matter of their resources and time and skill.
- colechristensen 5y ago
  This is what all security measures are: raising the bar of time and talent. Nothing beyond this.
  - Jach 5y ago
    Psychology is inherently a part of this. As other commenters upthread mention they calculate things in terms of relative security and "it will take X time to break my lock, but 1/5 or less X time to break the lock next to mine." But that neglects the perceived value of the secured asset. If your bike is worth quite a bit more than the poorly locked bike next to it, it can be worth the extra effort and risk of stealing it. Similarly for storage units, if a thief has unimpeded access to the place and only has time to try one or a handful of units, the unit with the beefy lock probably indicates more valuable stuff inside than the unit with a normal looking lock.
musicale 5y ago
Do thieves even resort to lockpicking for padlocks? Bike thieves (at least) just seem to cut or saw the bolt or chain, or if it's a u-bar lock they often just wedge it open (assuming it's a bic pen-resistant lock.)
- colechristensen 5y ago
  With a rake, a turning tool, and 60 seconds of training, a considerable proportion of padlocks can be opened instantly.
  - lmm 5y ago
    Even so, is this something that bicycle thieves find worth doing?
    - colechristensen 5y ago
      Really terrible bike locks are rather rare and most require some picking skill at least.
- barrkel 5y ago
  No, I wouldn't expect so. I've used Squire closed shackle locks in the past with my Almax chain for locking up motorbikes. The nice thing a 19mm chain with the Squire lock is that the shackle is locked into position on the inside of the chain link and the profile of the link prevents the lock from being rotated to attack the shackle easily. These days I use an Abloy PL 342. It doesn't fit the chain as well, but I can see from marks on the shackle that it has resisted bolt cutters.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  They use portable Angle grinders
  - askvictor 5y ago
    Is there any bike lock that will stand up to a battery-powered angle grinder?
throwaway81523 5y ago
Quick web search on the model number shows this is a $125 padlock. Out of my league, but thanks. I was out walking and saw some guy stealing a bike by breaking the U-lock with a car jack. Unfortunately I couldn't do anything about it (discreetly take pictures and call it in) because the person I was with was so oblivious. But I didn't know before how that type of theft worked.

152 points by CraigJPerry 5y ago

V__ 5y ago

ABUS locks should be avoided. The family that owns the company is part of the Christian Plymouth Brethren movement. Female family members are prevented from having the same participation rights, going so far as to “incentivize” them to sign contracts in which they waive their inheritance rights.

eldenbishop 5y ago
Interesting. I'd never heard of this sect. Also not allowed to live on the same land as their cattle. Always fascinating to read the rules and behaviors of these outlier communities.
monkeywork 5y ago
What alternative should be purchased instead? Lead with that information, otherwise you're not helping the person who is looking to buy a lock. I'm increasingly growing incredibly numb to calls for "don't associate with X because of Y". If you want my attention come to me with "Rather than associate with X check out Z, they offer the same service/product but aren't associated with Y". I do not have the time, energy, or interest in morally auditing every company that I do business with (like buying a freaking padlock from).
- theshrike79 5y ago
  ABLOY locks: https://www.abloy.com/global/en-us https://www.abloy.com/global/en-us They are pretty much the gold standard for locks. They are not unpickable, but take a considerable amount of skill and specialized tooling to crack. LockPickingLawyer picking an ABLOY lock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxfUmcMzx08 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxfUmcMzx08
- V__ 5y ago
  I agree with your point, however I am not an expert in locks and therefore didn't want to make a recommendation.
stmfreak 5y ago
So… how are their locks? Easy to pick? Fragile? High quality?
gumby 5y ago
Seems appropriate to me as “Abus” is French for “abuse”.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
heeen2 5y ago
Do you have a source for that?
- zinekeller 5y ago
  Unfortunately it's paywalled and in German, but according to an interview and investigation done by Süddeutsche Zeitung, they are indeed part of the Plymouth Brethen: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/abus-unternehmer-religion-1.4493053 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/abus-unternehmer-reli...
bongwaterblack 5y ago

CraigJPerry 5y ago

I’ve never seen LPL endorse a lock before. I’ve seen him trash in plenty of locks by Abus. Long videos are pretty rare on the LPL channel. Never seems to take him anything like this long to pick a lock. I don’t even need a padlock but an endorsement like this has me thinking i should pick one of these up!

timonoko 5y ago
"I’ve never seen LPL endorse a lock before". Correction: First time ever LPL endorsed a lock which seemed to be relatively easy to pick, Especially with the tool LPL and Bosnian Bill made.. There are plenty of locks that LPL cannot pick, like Bowly locks and new Abloys, and that is an endorsement on itself.
zucker42 5y ago
He all but endorsed the Altor SAF lock, noting that it took him machining a custom tool from scratch in order to open it. He also said he personally uses the Kryptonite evolution chain lock for his bike. LPL gives positive reviews of many locks.

timonoko 5y ago

First time ever my lock picking skills were in good use. A janitor tried in vain to use power cutters on hardened bicycle lock on a shopping mall door. I entered the scene, zipped out my pocket tool kit and set to work. Luckily the core was quite traditional with only few mushrooms and spools. I trained on Love Locks on Helsinki bridges, which made some people very angry -- and I dont know why, because I put most of them back.

pasabagi 5y ago
For everybody who was angry, there were probably two quiet fans who were hoping you would chuck the locks in the river. A personal favourite is when the city employee comes with an angle grinder to cut them off en masse.
stavros 5y ago
> I trained on Love Locks on Helsinki bridges, which made some people very angry -- and I dont know why, because I put most of them back. I love this, excellent comedy. Well done.
cafard 5y ago
Now I want to know your criteria.
- timonoko 5y ago
  That is easy: Two Days. If it takes several sessions to get it open, I am gonna keep it. At least until I have learned all its secrets. I have about six such in the training box right now. And one which I have opened only once ever. Inscription: "Lois & Edwin, March 2018". Yes some English people of Helsinki. Sorry Lois and Edwin, you should have choosed the cheapie version with 3 straight pins. BTW. The lock is ABUS 72/40. Some springs are very weak, so it may be that some pins are stuck.
  - codezero 5y ago
    72/40 can be extremely evasive with the right bitting, I love those little things.

legitster 5y ago

I've watched a ton of LPL videos, but I think they have had the opposite of the intended effect on me. I've now been convinced that if someone wants to pick a lock, they pretty much can. So I just buy the cheapest lock with the strongest shackle.

whartung 5y ago
I personally feel that his channel over represents the risk to picking. Not intentionally, just simply as a byproduct of watching locks getting picked quickly by an expert in laboratory conditions. A most recent example was a contractor working on my house had his van compromised and his tools stolen. No lock picking here, the thief punched a hole in the door, just below the lock with, probably, a large screwdriver, and he was in within seconds. However, as a counterpoint, it should be noted that while everywhere else I saw a soda machine they had those typical, ubiquitous cylinder key locks, the machines in the engineering building in college were all Abloy. So, you know, there's that anecdata. Not that it helped much, turned out if you put money in the machine, held down the soda selection, and power cycled the machine, it would happily dispense a fresh soda. Rinse repeat, Pepsis for everyone!
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  LPL does more than just picking including destructive attacks to the lock shackle, body, etc. He’s also reviewed bags and such where he simply cuts through to show ineffectiveness.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  That reminds me of the time, way back when I was a teenager and hung out with the wrong crowd, I learned (and saw demonstrated!) that soda vending machines of the time were trivial to steal from. It probably did a fair amount of damage. Take a soda bottle filled with salt water, blast it into the coin slot, start pushing the buttons and watch all the cans get dispensed. Not necessary to muck about with the lock.
cogman10 5y ago
The takeaway I've consistently gotten is "Don't buy MasterLock" A lot of the other examples of locks do show that a skilled picker can get through in almost no time. There are a few designs that are better than others, but not by a whole lot.

unstatusthequo 5y ago

I had a seriously heavy Abus lock on my storage unit. Extremely difficult to pick and hardened but the thief apparently used a diamond circular grinder to just cut the shackle. I still use those locks, and they are solid. But as with anything, it seems if a nefarious actor wants to get in, they will. Just a matter of their resources and time and skill.

colechristensen 5y ago
This is what all security measures are: raising the bar of time and talent. Nothing beyond this.
- Jach 5y ago
  Psychology is inherently a part of this. As other commenters upthread mention they calculate things in terms of relative security and "it will take X time to break my lock, but 1/5 or less X time to break the lock next to mine." But that neglects the perceived value of the secured asset. If your bike is worth quite a bit more than the poorly locked bike next to it, it can be worth the extra effort and risk of stealing it. Similarly for storage units, if a thief has unimpeded access to the place and only has time to try one or a handful of units, the unit with the beefy lock probably indicates more valuable stuff inside than the unit with a normal looking lock.

musicale 5y ago

Do thieves even resort to lockpicking for padlocks? Bike thieves (at least) just seem to cut or saw the bolt or chain, or if it's a u-bar lock they often just wedge it open (assuming it's a bic pen-resistant lock.)

colechristensen 5y ago
With a rake, a turning tool, and 60 seconds of training, a considerable proportion of padlocks can be opened instantly.
- lmm 5y ago
  Even so, is this something that bicycle thieves find worth doing?
  - colechristensen 5y ago
    Really terrible bike locks are rather rare and most require some picking skill at least.
barrkel 5y ago
No, I wouldn't expect so. I've used Squire closed shackle locks in the past with my Almax chain for locking up motorbikes. The nice thing a 19mm chain with the Squire lock is that the shackle is locked into position on the inside of the chain link and the profile of the link prevents the lock from being rotated to attack the shackle easily. These days I use an Abloy PL 342. It doesn't fit the chain as well, but I can see from marks on the shackle that it has resisted bolt cutters.
rdtwo 5y ago
They use portable Angle grinders
- askvictor 5y ago
  Is there any bike lock that will stand up to a battery-powered angle grinder?

throwaway81523 5y ago

Quick web search on the model number shows this is a $125 padlock. Out of my league, but thanks. I was out walking and saw some guy stealing a bike by breaking the U-lock with a car jack. Unfortunately I couldn't do anything about it (discreetly take pictures and call it in) because the person I was with was so oblivious. But I didn't know before how that type of theft worked.