6 ms·

The problem is definitely hardware. If you actually read the linked sources, it sounds like the Air Force bought a ton of spinning rust HDD machines in 2018 for

by omni 5y ago

The problem is definitely hardware. If you actually read the linked sources, it sounds like the Air Force bought a ton of spinning rust HDD machines in 2018 for the lowest possible price they could. They probably only have 4GB of RAM too, then, given what low end specs were like at the time. Good luck getting anything done today with those specs.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
Ha, you're blaming hardware yet the likely reason that those systems are slow isn't because the hardware can't do things quickly, but because the modern software they run on it is bloated and slow.
- Cromation 5y ago
  You both are correct. Its a combination of shit hardware, shit software, and poor timing on daily scans that should be run after hours instead of on login. I use AF computers on a daily basis and can attest to bringin in my own laptop and using alternatives to login on my personal.
praash 5y ago
That's not actually such "low end spec" that would cause logins and mails to take an hour to process. To me, the whole ordeal screams: software bloat, software misconfiguration, background service overload. You could snappily send mail 15 years ago, and the computational task itself hasn't grown much, besides bloated browser login windows. Try booting a 2 GB RAM machine to some RAM-preloading Linux thumbdrive and you'll see why the problem is not "spinning rust HDDs" and "only 4 GB RAM"
- sjcoles 5y ago
  Have you tried using Windows 10/11 with on-access and behavioral AV (not defender) on 4gb of RAM and a 5400rpm spinning disk? I find it entirely plausible that they have to wait an hour plus for the machine to become remotely responsive.
  - praash 5y ago
    I probably have experienced something close to this. You're right; it doesn't take many steps to make a modern machine slow. Reading the article was indeed surprising and depressing - it certainly is a plausible scenario! The question is: is such a disfigured desktop experience an acceptable result, given that the physical hardware enables much, much more productivity?
    - hardolaf 5y ago
      When NASA switched from internal IT to a third-party contractor, their laptops and desktops got replaced with worse hardware that somehow cost more. This is the Republican way.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    No one thinks the performance problems are implausible. But hardware can only do so much to make up for the worst excesses of antivirus. Behavioral scanning doesn't require huge amounts of memory and has negligible need to touch the hard drive. On-access scanning by definition barely needs to increase the number of I/O operations. It shouldn't bottleneck the machine if it's done competently. So then you're just loading outlook off a hard drive, which took several seconds the last time I tried it.
- stavros 5y ago
  Why wouldn't it? That's how long it takes to swap memory on an HDD, it doesn't surprise me, especially with how many resources today's browsers and sites consume.
  - praash 5y ago
    Websites are also bloated with massive Javascript - it's just another source of awfully bloated, inefficient, bloody useless software!
- omni 5y ago
  > Try booting a 2 GB RAM machine to some RAM-preloading Linux thumbdrive and you'll see why the problem is not "spinning rust HDDs" and "only 4 GB RAM" They're absolutely running some sort of modern Windows so I don't see how this is relevant at all. MS-DOS2.0 would also work like a dream on those specs, who cares?
  - praash 5y ago
    Yes, they're running Windows, and Windows is also software, contributing to the bloat. My point is that the resource overhead of just running an idle OS doesn't need to be humongous compared to the actual workload.
    - thinkmassive 5y ago
      Seriously, they could be running on thin clients like a chromebook. No need to give everyone top-end machines to run MS Office and some webapps. It's mind boggling this is even a debate on HN.
      - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
        But then they wouldn't be able to install the corporate spyware that keeps the evil hackers away.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by omni 5y ago

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

Ha, you're blaming hardware yet the likely reason that those systems are slow isn't because the hardware can't do things quickly, but because the modern software they run on it is bloated and slow.

Cromation 5y ago
You both are correct. Its a combination of shit hardware, shit software, and poor timing on daily scans that should be run after hours instead of on login. I use AF computers on a daily basis and can attest to bringin in my own laptop and using alternatives to login on my personal.

praash 5y ago

That's not actually such "low end spec" that would cause logins and mails to take an hour to process. To me, the whole ordeal screams: software bloat, software misconfiguration, background service overload. You could snappily send mail 15 years ago, and the computational task itself hasn't grown much, besides bloated browser login windows. Try booting a 2 GB RAM machine to some RAM-preloading Linux thumbdrive and you'll see why the problem is not "spinning rust HDDs" and "only 4 GB RAM"

sjcoles 5y ago
Have you tried using Windows 10/11 with on-access and behavioral AV (not defender) on 4gb of RAM and a 5400rpm spinning disk? I find it entirely plausible that they have to wait an hour plus for the machine to become remotely responsive.
- praash 5y ago
  I probably have experienced something close to this. You're right; it doesn't take many steps to make a modern machine slow. Reading the article was indeed surprising and depressing - it certainly is a plausible scenario! The question is: is such a disfigured desktop experience an acceptable result, given that the physical hardware enables much, much more productivity?
  - hardolaf 5y ago
    When NASA switched from internal IT to a third-party contractor, their laptops and desktops got replaced with worse hardware that somehow cost more. This is the Republican way.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  No one thinks the performance problems are implausible. But hardware can only do so much to make up for the worst excesses of antivirus. Behavioral scanning doesn't require huge amounts of memory and has negligible need to touch the hard drive. On-access scanning by definition barely needs to increase the number of I/O operations. It shouldn't bottleneck the machine if it's done competently. So then you're just loading outlook off a hard drive, which took several seconds the last time I tried it.
stavros 5y ago
Why wouldn't it? That's how long it takes to swap memory on an HDD, it doesn't surprise me, especially with how many resources today's browsers and sites consume.
- praash 5y ago
  Websites are also bloated with massive Javascript - it's just another source of awfully bloated, inefficient, bloody useless software!
omni 5y ago
> Try booting a 2 GB RAM machine to some RAM-preloading Linux thumbdrive and you'll see why the problem is not "spinning rust HDDs" and "only 4 GB RAM" They're absolutely running some sort of modern Windows so I don't see how this is relevant at all. MS-DOS2.0 would also work like a dream on those specs, who cares?
- praash 5y ago
  Yes, they're running Windows, and Windows is also software, contributing to the bloat. My point is that the resource overhead of just running an idle OS doesn't need to be humongous compared to the actual workload.
  - thinkmassive 5y ago
    Seriously, they could be running on thin clients like a chromebook. No need to give everyone top-end machines to run MS Office and some webapps. It's mind boggling this is even a debate on HN.
    - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
      But then they wouldn't be able to install the corporate spyware that keeps the evil hackers away.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]