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That was extremely inappropriate behaviour from you if this story is true. I feel bad for everyone else involved.

mcorning 5y ago
Extremely inappropriate behavior is a pretty strong accusation. Seems like a harmless nerdy prank that occurred 40 years ago. It's not like he changed the monitor to say "Poop Fare."
- watwut 5y ago
  It was serious dick move. Nothing to do with being nerd a lot to do with being jerk.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    A dick move would be to break it. Showing off the device's capabilities in novel an interesting ways should lead to a conversation, not a judgment. Seriously, I've been on tons of trade shows, both in the booth and as a visitor, I'd have definitely struck up a conversation with the guy to see where and how he learned so much about the device. That also would have all but guaranteed getting my device back in pristine working order and a pointer to some information about it that I apparently had missed.
    - watwut 5y ago
      The story ends with "As I walked to the next exhibit, I saw him cycle the AC power to the instrument in frustration." So no, this was not about showing device capabilities. Nor about striking conversation. This was about feeling good and superior for making someone frustrated. (And no, which is not even same as not caring about other peoples feelings, this is about being happy about their feelings being negative.)
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        Well, if the sales guy had been more knowledgeable or more interested in someone who clearly knew his stuff better than he did then this could have ended differently. Could the prankster have done better? Sure, no doubt, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be. Could the salesperson have done better? Yes, also no doubt, having been there this was simply a missed opportunity.
        strofcon 5y ago
        Are we really trying to claim that sales people should have the same level of knowledge as power-users / developers / engineers who build such things? Perhaps I'm too young, but I've literally never know any such a salesperson. They're there to be charismatic and friendly, and show the features for which they've been handed a script. Their job is to drive interest, and address very, VERY high level concerns. They're not experts, else they'd (by and large) be doing something other than sales, yes? (To be fair, it's possible that we've just eliminated reasonable expectations of salespeople, but that's not clear to me yet)
        jacquesm 5y ago
        A booth like that would usually be staffed by suits and engineers, and if you are extremely lucky, engineers in suits. But plenty of companies sent minders and order takers, technically incompetent, they might be able to do a scripted demo but likely would not know the first thing about the actual uses of such a device.
        ajford 5y ago
        > Perhaps I'm too young, but I've literally never know any such a salesperson. This was about 30-40 years ago, so it's far more in the time frame where you'd have technically competent sales folk, as you'd be pitching this gear to other engineers at this trade show. When you're at a trade show for the very field that equipment is designed for and someone is trying to pitch you a piece of equipment that's nearly double the annual salary of an entry level engineer, I think you'd be far more likely to see a salesperson knowledgeable about their gear.
- thanatos519 5y ago
  "40 years ago" is very relevant, too. Everyone is wound so tight these days. There's no such thing as a harmless nerdy prank anymore.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    Harmless is a matter of perspective here. The sales guy might have been in serious trouble after it and who knows, could not close some deals he was about to make and maybe was maybe never allowed to be at a trade show again. We do not know. And well, probably many do not care as sales guys are not much respected here. (and I have my bias too, but I do not like generalisations too much, in the sense if this idiot sales guy could not fix his machine, bad for him, no harm done to real people)
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Then maybe the sales guy should have read the manual of the device and it's active components, just like the OP did? Sales guys that desire to close deals should know their stuff.
      - hutzlibu 5y ago
        So it was not a harmless prank, but a harsh education to tech illiterate people then?
        jacquesm 5y ago
        No, not really, just reboot the device and go back to work.
        hutzlibu 5y ago
        Do you know that, or just assume it? OPs story ended with him walking away, leaving a state of mess. Indeed funny in a way and maybe even warranted, depending on the sales guy. I cannot judge that. I have not been there. But it is not correct to judge it harmless, when a real person suffered potential real harm.
svnpenn 5y ago
It was 40 years ago...
- yitchelle 5y ago
  I don't think time would change the severity of the situation. Imagine if someone did a prank at CES2022 and ruined a multimillion display.
  - emptyparadise 5y ago
    You know what, that would still be very funny if it could be done with a couple of key presses.
  - azeirah 5y ago
    Ruined? It was completely reversible, and the prankster did reverse it. I wouldn't call it completely harmless but like... meh, it would be funny if someone did that tbh
- futharkshill 5y ago
  and retold with pride
anonymousiam 5y ago
I was in my 20's and still had a juvenile/hacker streak. No harm was done. Back at that time, I had dreams of actually owning a 8566, but at the time they cost $60k and it seemed impossible. I picked one up about five years ago for $2k. It STILL has the best performing AFE of anything ever made. All the modern equipment uses signal processing, but that's cheating.
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  > I was in my 20's and still had a juvenile/hacker streak. No harm was done. Lots of us did dumb/jerk things when we were younger; that makes it understandable, not okay. And would the salesperson with the now (for all practical purposes) broken demo unit agree that there was no harm?
  - clintonc 5y ago
    Sounds like a power cycle would fix it, so not so bad. Mild annoyance :)
    - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
      Ah yeah, that would make a difference; my reading was that it would stay that way until someone hit the magic key sequence. If the salesperson could fix it inside 5 minutes I agree (effectively) no harm.
  - kingcharles 5y ago
    I was at a boat show once and there was a salesman selling fountain pens that would not leak. At my all-boys school we had to write everything with fountain pens and boys being boys we would regularly spray each other with ink using a very hard flick of the pen. Standing in front of the salesman's table I picked up a demo pen to see, and gave it my hardest flick. Ink sprayed out all over the table, and all down the front of the man's white shirt. I ran.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
lovich 5y ago
Depends on the situation. 40 years ago, software engineers were an extremely rare breed, and concerns about hacking and security were negligible compared to today. If I was a manager with purchasing power I would have viewed it as proof that the machine was programmable and wasn’t just a “toaster” that had been built to do one thing and only one thing. It’s not like he made the machine generate garbage noise, displaying set text on the fly wasn’t a commodity back then as far as I know
- stavros 5y ago
  Yeah, if you were there, but if you walked last the rest of the day and wanted to see the instrument working, only to be met with a "some guy broke it", you wouldn't be as happy.
  - KSteffensen 5y ago
    As pointed out elsewhere maybe the sales guy should know how to operate the thing he is selling? Also, it sounds like a power cycle cleared up the issue so no big problems.
    - stavros 5y ago
      Well maybe the engineers should know how to sell the thing they're making? The salesperson's job is to sell, not to operate, and why should he know every last intricacy of the machine? I don't know that a power cycle cleared the issue up, a reset definitely didn't. OP just said the salesperson power-cycled it, not that that fixed it.
      - KSteffensen 5y ago
        > Well maybe the engineers should know how to sell the thing they're making? I agree, why not have an technical guy there who knows how to operate the thing and can support the sales guy? If the company is sending only sales guys with no in-depth technical knowledge to a trade show, it's fully understandable and well-deserved if this sort of thing happens. > why should he know every last intricacy of the machine? If I am buying an expensive piece of hardware you better believe I will ask questions about the intricacies and if I don't get answers I will not be buying.
kortilla 5y ago
> extremely Does that word have any meaning anymore? The extent of this was having to restart it and being annoyed. It’s about as inappropriate as your concern trolling.
- MauroIksem 5y ago
  The fact that you made this comment all is worse than his use of the word. Find better thing to be outraged about.
  - AitchEmArsey 5y ago
    Your outrage about his outrage about the original outrage is basically a glorious example of Poe's Law; I both love and hate it.
  - strofcon 5y ago
    Words should have meaningful usages though, yes? I mean, we let "literally" become a contranym, and broke an awful lot of conversations and literatary comprehension, yea?
amelius 5y ago
Yes. It's the equivalent of turning someone's phone into Chinese mode (assuming they don't speak it), then walking away.
- futharkshill 5y ago
  Before/while they have an important exam where they need their phone
- jacquesm 5y ago
  I've done that to myself. That took a bit of figuring out :)
- ajford 5y ago
  Only if the phone automatically returns to English on a reboot. Equipment like this from that era had very little non-volatile storage, so it basically boots clean and fresh every time.
jacquesm 5y ago
The chilling effect of your comment should not be underestimated. If this was 'extremely inappropriate behavior' I think I'll forego retelling any of my tradeshow pranks.
- bawolff 5y ago
  I think "extreme" might be a bit much, but i'm much more concerned about the 2nd order chilling effect of calling out people for criticizing rude behaviour, then the original chilling effect on rude behaviour.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    You're on a website whose co-founder managed to disable an enormous network of computers with a piece of software, for which he served jail time and was fined. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Tappan_Morris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Tappan_Morris Here we venerate such people. And as computer related pranks go, this one was pretty mild and required some pretty intimate knowledge of the device. If I had been in that booth I would have engaged the person to see what else they know about it and why.
    - nmstoker 5y ago
      Thanks for the details / link Just a minor point: Did he actually serve jail time? The Wikipedia article you link to says he got probation
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        "He was the first person to be indicted under this act. In December 1990, he was sentenced to three years of probation, 400 hours of community service, and a fine of $10,050 plus the costs of his supervision. " It looks like you are correct, gaffe on my part, thanks for the correction.
    - bawolff 5y ago
      And what, is it your position that all the actions of hn founders are instrinsically above reproach? At the very least i would hope we have better morality arguments than simple appeals to authority. To be clear, i object to the notion that its wrong to criticize/debate the behaviour and ethics of others. I'm not really objecting to the original post about the trade show prank.
SomeBoolshit 5y ago
What an incredibly strange thing to say about an harmless prank that took place 30 to 40 years ago.
kryogen1c 5y ago
oh grow up. no - seriously. is this the kind of culture you want? no one can ever share bad things theyve done, ever? lets all lie and say we're sinless? you "feel bad" for how "extremely inappropriate" that was? how tiny is your worldview that this is the cause you think needs correcting? maybe add something to the conversation instead of calling someone shitty for a decades old action. how are people suppossed to recover from real problems if this is how you treat some meaningless, damageless 5 minute prank? shovelling embarassment and guilt is the most unhealthy and unproductive forum environment possible.
- zamadatix 5y ago
  In a sibling comment the GP was able to say it was indeed juvenile and they've moved on. I think that makes a fantastically healthy and productive string of comments: someone talks about an interesting past event, someone else points out it wasn't a responsible/polite thing to do since the original story doesn't touch on this, original person agrees and share more history continuing the conversation with some follow up to the story too.
  - user_7832 5y ago
    > In a sibling comment the GP was able to say it was indeed juvenile and they've moved on. That's good to know, but there are lots of folks here who defend the poster's actions to varying degrees, which I find odd. It feels like the poster is more mature (now) than some other commenters.
dang 5y ago
Please don't cross into personal attack. We particularly don't want the online callout/shaming culture here. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&type=comment&dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=online%20shaming%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&type=comment&dateRange=a... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Extremely inappropriate behavior is a pretty strong accusation. Seems like a harmless nerdy prank that occurred 40 years ago. It's not like he changed the monitor to say "Poop Fare."

watwut 5y ago
It was serious dick move. Nothing to do with being nerd a lot to do with being jerk.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  A dick move would be to break it. Showing off the device's capabilities in novel an interesting ways should lead to a conversation, not a judgment. Seriously, I've been on tons of trade shows, both in the booth and as a visitor, I'd have definitely struck up a conversation with the guy to see where and how he learned so much about the device. That also would have all but guaranteed getting my device back in pristine working order and a pointer to some information about it that I apparently had missed.
  - watwut 5y ago
    The story ends with "As I walked to the next exhibit, I saw him cycle the AC power to the instrument in frustration." So no, this was not about showing device capabilities. Nor about striking conversation. This was about feeling good and superior for making someone frustrated. (And no, which is not even same as not caring about other peoples feelings, this is about being happy about their feelings being negative.)
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Well, if the sales guy had been more knowledgeable or more interested in someone who clearly knew his stuff better than he did then this could have ended differently. Could the prankster have done better? Sure, no doubt, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be. Could the salesperson have done better? Yes, also no doubt, having been there this was simply a missed opportunity.
      - strofcon 5y ago
        Are we really trying to claim that sales people should have the same level of knowledge as power-users / developers / engineers who build such things? Perhaps I'm too young, but I've literally never know any such a salesperson. They're there to be charismatic and friendly, and show the features for which they've been handed a script. Their job is to drive interest, and address very, VERY high level concerns. They're not experts, else they'd (by and large) be doing something other than sales, yes? (To be fair, it's possible that we've just eliminated reasonable expectations of salespeople, but that's not clear to me yet)
        jacquesm 5y ago
        A booth like that would usually be staffed by suits and engineers, and if you are extremely lucky, engineers in suits. But plenty of companies sent minders and order takers, technically incompetent, they might be able to do a scripted demo but likely would not know the first thing about the actual uses of such a device.
        ajford 5y ago
        > Perhaps I'm too young, but I've literally never know any such a salesperson. This was about 30-40 years ago, so it's far more in the time frame where you'd have technically competent sales folk, as you'd be pitching this gear to other engineers at this trade show. When you're at a trade show for the very field that equipment is designed for and someone is trying to pitch you a piece of equipment that's nearly double the annual salary of an entry level engineer, I think you'd be far more likely to see a salesperson knowledgeable about their gear.
thanatos519 5y ago
"40 years ago" is very relevant, too. Everyone is wound so tight these days. There's no such thing as a harmless nerdy prank anymore.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  Harmless is a matter of perspective here. The sales guy might have been in serious trouble after it and who knows, could not close some deals he was about to make and maybe was maybe never allowed to be at a trade show again. We do not know. And well, probably many do not care as sales guys are not much respected here. (and I have my bias too, but I do not like generalisations too much, in the sense if this idiot sales guy could not fix his machine, bad for him, no harm done to real people)
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Then maybe the sales guy should have read the manual of the device and it's active components, just like the OP did? Sales guys that desire to close deals should know their stuff.
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      So it was not a harmless prank, but a harsh education to tech illiterate people then?
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        No, not really, just reboot the device and go back to work.
        hutzlibu 5y ago
        Do you know that, or just assume it? OPs story ended with him walking away, leaving a state of mess. Indeed funny in a way and maybe even warranted, depending on the sales guy. I cannot judge that. I have not been there. But it is not correct to judge it harmless, when a real person suffered potential real harm.

svnpenn 5y ago

It was 40 years ago...

yitchelle 5y ago
I don't think time would change the severity of the situation. Imagine if someone did a prank at CES2022 and ruined a multimillion display.
- emptyparadise 5y ago
  You know what, that would still be very funny if it could be done with a couple of key presses.
- azeirah 5y ago
  Ruined? It was completely reversible, and the prankster did reverse it. I wouldn't call it completely harmless but like... meh, it would be funny if someone did that tbh
futharkshill 5y ago
and retold with pride

anonymousiam 5y ago

I was in my 20's and still had a juvenile/hacker streak. No harm was done. Back at that time, I had dreams of actually owning a 8566, but at the time they cost $60k and it seemed impossible. I picked one up about five years ago for $2k. It STILL has the best performing AFE of anything ever made. All the modern equipment uses signal processing, but that's cheating.

yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
> I was in my 20's and still had a juvenile/hacker streak. No harm was done. Lots of us did dumb/jerk things when we were younger; that makes it understandable, not okay. And would the salesperson with the now (for all practical purposes) broken demo unit agree that there was no harm?
- clintonc 5y ago
  Sounds like a power cycle would fix it, so not so bad. Mild annoyance :)
  - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
    Ah yeah, that would make a difference; my reading was that it would stay that way until someone hit the magic key sequence. If the salesperson could fix it inside 5 minutes I agree (effectively) no harm.
- kingcharles 5y ago
  I was at a boat show once and there was a salesman selling fountain pens that would not leak. At my all-boys school we had to write everything with fountain pens and boys being boys we would regularly spray each other with ink using a very hard flick of the pen. Standing in front of the salesman's table I picked up a demo pen to see, and gave it my hardest flick. Ink sprayed out all over the table, and all down the front of the man's white shirt. I ran.
  - jacquesm 5y ago

lovich 5y ago

Depends on the situation. 40 years ago, software engineers were an extremely rare breed, and concerns about hacking and security were negligible compared to today. If I was a manager with purchasing power I would have viewed it as proof that the machine was programmable and wasn’t just a “toaster” that had been built to do one thing and only one thing. It’s not like he made the machine generate garbage noise, displaying set text on the fly wasn’t a commodity back then as far as I know

stavros 5y ago
Yeah, if you were there, but if you walked last the rest of the day and wanted to see the instrument working, only to be met with a "some guy broke it", you wouldn't be as happy.
- KSteffensen 5y ago
  As pointed out elsewhere maybe the sales guy should know how to operate the thing he is selling? Also, it sounds like a power cycle cleared up the issue so no big problems.
  - stavros 5y ago
    Well maybe the engineers should know how to sell the thing they're making? The salesperson's job is to sell, not to operate, and why should he know every last intricacy of the machine? I don't know that a power cycle cleared the issue up, a reset definitely didn't. OP just said the salesperson power-cycled it, not that that fixed it.
    - KSteffensen 5y ago
      > Well maybe the engineers should know how to sell the thing they're making? I agree, why not have an technical guy there who knows how to operate the thing and can support the sales guy? If the company is sending only sales guys with no in-depth technical knowledge to a trade show, it's fully understandable and well-deserved if this sort of thing happens. > why should he know every last intricacy of the machine? If I am buying an expensive piece of hardware you better believe I will ask questions about the intricacies and if I don't get answers I will not be buying.

kortilla 5y ago

> extremely Does that word have any meaning anymore? The extent of this was having to restart it and being annoyed. It’s about as inappropriate as your concern trolling.

MauroIksem 5y ago
The fact that you made this comment all is worse than his use of the word. Find better thing to be outraged about.
- AitchEmArsey 5y ago
  Your outrage about his outrage about the original outrage is basically a glorious example of Poe's Law; I both love and hate it.
- strofcon 5y ago
  Words should have meaningful usages though, yes? I mean, we let "literally" become a contranym, and broke an awful lot of conversations and literatary comprehension, yea?

amelius 5y ago

Yes. It's the equivalent of turning someone's phone into Chinese mode (assuming they don't speak it), then walking away.

futharkshill 5y ago
Before/while they have an important exam where they need their phone
jacquesm 5y ago
I've done that to myself. That took a bit of figuring out :)
ajford 5y ago
Only if the phone automatically returns to English on a reboot. Equipment like this from that era had very little non-volatile storage, so it basically boots clean and fresh every time.

jacquesm 5y ago

The chilling effect of your comment should not be underestimated. If this was 'extremely inappropriate behavior' I think I'll forego retelling any of my tradeshow pranks.

bawolff 5y ago
I think "extreme" might be a bit much, but i'm much more concerned about the 2nd order chilling effect of calling out people for criticizing rude behaviour, then the original chilling effect on rude behaviour.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  You're on a website whose co-founder managed to disable an enormous network of computers with a piece of software, for which he served jail time and was fined. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Tappan_Morris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Tappan_Morris Here we venerate such people. And as computer related pranks go, this one was pretty mild and required some pretty intimate knowledge of the device. If I had been in that booth I would have engaged the person to see what else they know about it and why.
  - nmstoker 5y ago
    Thanks for the details / link Just a minor point: Did he actually serve jail time? The Wikipedia article you link to says he got probation
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      "He was the first person to be indicted under this act. In December 1990, he was sentenced to three years of probation, 400 hours of community service, and a fine of $10,050 plus the costs of his supervision. " It looks like you are correct, gaffe on my part, thanks for the correction.
  - bawolff 5y ago
    And what, is it your position that all the actions of hn founders are instrinsically above reproach? At the very least i would hope we have better morality arguments than simple appeals to authority. To be clear, i object to the notion that its wrong to criticize/debate the behaviour and ethics of others. I'm not really objecting to the original post about the trade show prank.

SomeBoolshit 5y ago

What an incredibly strange thing to say about an harmless prank that took place 30 to 40 years ago.

kryogen1c 5y ago

oh grow up. no - seriously. is this the kind of culture you want? no one can ever share bad things theyve done, ever? lets all lie and say we're sinless? you "feel bad" for how "extremely inappropriate" that was? how tiny is your worldview that this is the cause you think needs correcting? maybe add something to the conversation instead of calling someone shitty for a decades old action. how are people suppossed to recover from real problems if this is how you treat some meaningless, damageless 5 minute prank? shovelling embarassment and guilt is the most unhealthy and unproductive forum environment possible.

zamadatix 5y ago
In a sibling comment the GP was able to say it was indeed juvenile and they've moved on. I think that makes a fantastically healthy and productive string of comments: someone talks about an interesting past event, someone else points out it wasn't a responsible/polite thing to do since the original story doesn't touch on this, original person agrees and share more history continuing the conversation with some follow up to the story too.
- user_7832 5y ago
  > In a sibling comment the GP was able to say it was indeed juvenile and they've moved on. That's good to know, but there are lots of folks here who defend the poster's actions to varying degrees, which I find odd. It feels like the poster is more mature (now) than some other commenters.

dang 5y ago

Please don't cross into personal attack. We particularly don't want the online callout/shaming culture here. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&type=comment&dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=online%20shaming%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&type=comment&dateRange=a... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html