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How Does an individual choice to get vaccinated or not impact others? Vaccines do not stop transmission of Covid nor do they stop you from getting Covid. They

How Does an individual choice to get vaccinated or not impact others? Vaccines do not stop transmission of Covid nor do they stop you from getting Covid. They merely decrease your chances of getting severe Covid or dying from Covid. Thus the decision to vax or not is clearly a personal choice.

taylodl 5y ago
Because if you're unvaccinated you're much more likely to require hospitalization should you get Covid. The impact to others is the unvaccinated are consuming medical resources and causing burn-out amongst medical practitioners.
- pcmoney 5y ago
  We dont make this distinction with the vast majority of personal choices. Obesity causes a ton of strain on our health system. Should we start a class system based on BMI?
  - svachalek 5y ago
    Seatbelts. Helmets. Cigarette taxes. Drinking ages.
    - pcmoney 5y ago
      Sure but there is a big difference between finding somebody for not wearing a seatbelt in denying them medical care.
      - epicide 5y ago
        If nurses and doctors were quitting and students dropping out of medical school for fear of dealing with the fallout surrounding people not wearing seatbelts... yeah, we'd probably be considering it.
    - thfuran 5y ago
      And, of course, the numerous other routine vaccines.
  - tchock23 5y ago
    I’ve never caught obesity by sitting next to someone. Have you?
    - pcmoney 5y ago
      Again, vaccines do not stop transmission or contagion
      - reanimus 5y ago
        Where are you getting the information for this claim? The vaccines certainly reduce your chance of catching it, and though vaccinated individuals may have similar viral loads to unvaccinated people at peak, the period of time that they're infectious is shorter. [0] One study even suggests less infectiousness. [1] Where have you seen otherwise? [0] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... [1] https://www.jwatch.org/na54386/2021/12/15/transmission-risk-sars-cov-2-infected-fully-vaccinated https://www.jwatch.org/na54386/2021/12/15/transmission-risk-...
        pcmoney 5y ago
        Both of those studies predate the omnicron wave. The rate of transmission in fully vaccinated regions is still very high.
        reanimus 5y ago
        This one [0] references omicron specifically, noting that though omicron is better at evading immunity, vaccines still helped. [0] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788485 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788485
        pcmoney 5y ago
        So you’re in favor of mandates along the lines of “Get the vaccine or you are fired” for marginal benefits? Would you be ok if this precedent was extended to other prevention areas? Eg. Maintain social distancing or you are fired (protests of any kind are typically not socially distanced)
reanimus 5y ago
> Vaccines do not stop transmission of Covid nor do they stop you from getting Covid. They don't stop it, but they do decrease your chances of acquiring it and they do reduce the viral load you shed. > They merely decrease your chances of getting severe Covid or dying from Covid. So they prevent you from taking up a hospital bed, exposing the people who have to care for you to COVID and preventing other non-COVID emergencies from being tended to. That seems to impact others to me.
- pcmoney 5y ago
  Should we apply the same standards to the obese? Arguably a greater strain on our health care system.
  - reanimus 5y ago
    I don't know, is there a free two-shot regimen to help deal with obesity? Also, last time I checked, hospitals weren't running out of ICU beds thanks to obesity.
    - pcmoney 5y ago
      Its even easier. Just dont eat too much.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - reanimus 5y ago
        You clearly don't know much about obesity or simply don't care. Either way, if you're truly invested in the public health implications/strategies for obesity, you're welcome to look into it. :)
        pcmoney 5y ago
        So its more complicated than: maintain caloric equilibrium? Or are you about to make a bunch of Socio-economic and cultural justifications for obesity that you will not extend to the unvaccinated?

taylodl 5y ago

Because if you're unvaccinated you're much more likely to require hospitalization should you get Covid. The impact to others is the unvaccinated are consuming medical resources and causing burn-out amongst medical practitioners.

pcmoney 5y ago
We dont make this distinction with the vast majority of personal choices. Obesity causes a ton of strain on our health system. Should we start a class system based on BMI?
- svachalek 5y ago
  Seatbelts. Helmets. Cigarette taxes. Drinking ages.
  - pcmoney 5y ago
    Sure but there is a big difference between finding somebody for not wearing a seatbelt in denying them medical care.
    - epicide 5y ago
      If nurses and doctors were quitting and students dropping out of medical school for fear of dealing with the fallout surrounding people not wearing seatbelts... yeah, we'd probably be considering it.
  - thfuran 5y ago
    And, of course, the numerous other routine vaccines.
- tchock23 5y ago
  I’ve never caught obesity by sitting next to someone. Have you?
  - pcmoney 5y ago
    Again, vaccines do not stop transmission or contagion
    - reanimus 5y ago
      Where are you getting the information for this claim? The vaccines certainly reduce your chance of catching it, and though vaccinated individuals may have similar viral loads to unvaccinated people at peak, the period of time that they're infectious is shorter. [0] One study even suggests less infectiousness. [1] Where have you seen otherwise? [0] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... [1] https://www.jwatch.org/na54386/2021/12/15/transmission-risk-sars-cov-2-infected-fully-vaccinated https://www.jwatch.org/na54386/2021/12/15/transmission-risk-...
      - pcmoney 5y ago
        Both of those studies predate the omnicron wave. The rate of transmission in fully vaccinated regions is still very high.
        reanimus 5y ago
        This one [0] references omicron specifically, noting that though omicron is better at evading immunity, vaccines still helped. [0] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788485 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788485
        pcmoney 5y ago
        So you’re in favor of mandates along the lines of “Get the vaccine or you are fired” for marginal benefits? Would you be ok if this precedent was extended to other prevention areas? Eg. Maintain social distancing or you are fired (protests of any kind are typically not socially distanced)

reanimus 5y ago

> Vaccines do not stop transmission of Covid nor do they stop you from getting Covid. They don't stop it, but they do decrease your chances of acquiring it and they do reduce the viral load you shed. > They merely decrease your chances of getting severe Covid or dying from Covid. So they prevent you from taking up a hospital bed, exposing the people who have to care for you to COVID and preventing other non-COVID emergencies from being tended to. That seems to impact others to me.

pcmoney 5y ago
Should we apply the same standards to the obese? Arguably a greater strain on our health care system.
- reanimus 5y ago
  I don't know, is there a free two-shot regimen to help deal with obesity? Also, last time I checked, hospitals weren't running out of ICU beds thanks to obesity.
  - pcmoney 5y ago
    Its even easier. Just dont eat too much.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - reanimus 5y ago
      You clearly don't know much about obesity or simply don't care. Either way, if you're truly invested in the public health implications/strategies for obesity, you're welcome to look into it. :)
      - pcmoney 5y ago
        So its more complicated than: maintain caloric equilibrium? Or are you about to make a bunch of Socio-economic and cultural justifications for obesity that you will not extend to the unvaccinated?