4 ms·

> My daughter is in pre-med. Apparently people are dropping out like flies This may not be a bad thing in the long run. There’s a shortage of medical professio

> My daughter is in pre-med. Apparently people are dropping out like flies This may not be a bad thing in the long run. There’s a shortage of medical professionals because the medical industry wants it that way. If the crisis becomes acute enough, the government will be forced to loosen regulations, and that would allow for more people to enter the field faster and more easily.

convolvatron 5y ago
_thats_ your takeaway? that if the damn government stopped bothering to try to oversee outcomes in an area with extreme information asymmetry, a desire to get treated regardless of the cost, a bunch of agents between the doctor and the patient taking their cut, and a massive problem with cost control....everything would just be fine and we'd have plenty of doctors.
- baron816 5y ago
  No. You’re putting a bunch of words in my mouth.
nradov 5y ago
The shortage of physicians is primarily caused not by regulations but by lack of government funding for residency programs. https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-fund-graduate-medical-education-address-physician-shortages https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-fun...
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  So we didn’t have physicians before government started funding residencies? I think not, I think we used to have physicians just fine 100 years ago. So what changed?
  - nradov 5y ago
    Medical education with residencies only really started in about 1930. Before that there was no real consistency, and the results were terrible in terms of iatrogenic harm. https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001936.htm https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001936.htm The other thing that changed in the past 100 years is that Americans on average are older, sicker, and have higher demand for healthcare.
- EvanAnderson 5y ago
  It's good to remember that the AMA and other medical groups lobbied for capping the residency slots back in 1997 (when an "oversupply" of doctors was forecast). From [1]: > "The United States is on the verge of a serious oversupply of physicians," the AMA and five other medical groups said in a joint statement. "The current rate of physician supply -- the number of physicians entering the work force each year -- is clearly excessive." > The groups, representing a large segment of the medical establishment, proposed limits on the number of doctors who become residents each year. > The number of medical residents, now 25,000, should be much lower, the groups said. While they did not endorse a specific number, they suggested that 18,700 might be appropriate. They've changed their tune (which I, cynically, think is because the members in the late 90s have all "gotten theirs" by now). [0] https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/thanks-to-doctors-there-arent-enough-doctors https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/thanks-to-doctors-there-a... [1] https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1997-03-01-1997060012-story.html https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1997-03-01-19970600... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/01/us/doctors-assert-there-are-too-many-of-them.html https://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/01/us/doctors-assert-there-a... [3] https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/13/health/train-more-doctors-residency/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/13/health/train-more-doctors-res... [4] http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9708/24/doctor.glut/ http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9708/24/doctor.glut/

convolvatron 5y ago

_thats_ your takeaway? that if the damn government stopped bothering to try to oversee outcomes in an area with extreme information asymmetry, a desire to get treated regardless of the cost, a bunch of agents between the doctor and the patient taking their cut, and a massive problem with cost control....everything would just be fine and we'd have plenty of doctors.

baron816 5y ago
No. You’re putting a bunch of words in my mouth.

nradov 5y ago

The shortage of physicians is primarily caused not by regulations but by lack of government funding for residency programs. https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-fund-graduate-medical-education-address-physician-shortages https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-fun...

xyzzyz 5y ago
So we didn’t have physicians before government started funding residencies? I think not, I think we used to have physicians just fine 100 years ago. So what changed?
- nradov 5y ago
  Medical education with residencies only really started in about 1930. Before that there was no real consistency, and the results were terrible in terms of iatrogenic harm. https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001936.htm https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001936.htm The other thing that changed in the past 100 years is that Americans on average are older, sicker, and have higher demand for healthcare.
EvanAnderson 5y ago
It's good to remember that the AMA and other medical groups lobbied for capping the residency slots back in 1997 (when an "oversupply" of doctors was forecast). From [1]: > "The United States is on the verge of a serious oversupply of physicians," the AMA and five other medical groups said in a joint statement. "The current rate of physician supply -- the number of physicians entering the work force each year -- is clearly excessive." > The groups, representing a large segment of the medical establishment, proposed limits on the number of doctors who become residents each year. > The number of medical residents, now 25,000, should be much lower, the groups said. While they did not endorse a specific number, they suggested that 18,700 might be appropriate. They've changed their tune (which I, cynically, think is because the members in the late 90s have all "gotten theirs" by now). [0] https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/thanks-to-doctors-there-arent-enough-doctors https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/thanks-to-doctors-there-a... [1] https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1997-03-01-1997060012-story.html https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1997-03-01-19970600... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/01/us/doctors-assert-there-are-too-many-of-them.html https://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/01/us/doctors-assert-there-a... [3] https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/13/health/train-more-doctors-residency/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/13/health/train-more-doctors-res... [4] http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9708/24/doctor.glut/ http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9708/24/doctor.glut/