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Funny to watch the Atlantic change directions on COVID over the last few months. I go back and forth on masks. In general I find them to be a minor inconvenienc

Funny to watch the Atlantic change directions on COVID over the last few months. I go back and forth on masks. In general I find them to be a minor inconvenience, although I believe they're more inconvenient for me than most because I'm blind and no matter what I do they always fog up my glasses. But while masks themselves are mildly inconvenient, harsh mask mandates and restrictions become much more of an annoyance quickly. Try taking a 6 hour flight with a 2 year old that's required to keep his mask on the entire flight, and when he takes it off (because he's 2, of course he's going to take it off) the flight attendants threaten to turn the plane around and ban you permanently. That gets old quick. I was in a coffee shop the other day and my mask broke. Everyone takes their mask off to sip their drink or eat their pastries, but I was immediately asked to leave when the functional mask I walked in with broke. They didn't have any extras, I wasn't carrying around more than one mask. It was embarrassing. It's pretty easy to grow tired of these mandates when your situation deviates slightly from the norm. At this point, I'm in favor of a "protect yourself" direction. If you're concerned, put on an N95 and a face shield and sanitize your hands often. It's clear that shutting down society to the point necessary to restrict the spread of COVID is not feasible, and all the halfway measures we've taken haven't achieved their stated goals. It's just a nuisance at this point.

downrightmike 5y ago
bandaid over the nose and mask should stop your fogging. You can also use a little saliva on the lenses like they do in scuba diving. I usually just move the glasses a little further down my nose and that does like 95% of the solution.
- ngngngng 5y ago
  I haven't tried saliva. Usually I just end up with my mask way up my nose and my glasses moved down my nose. That works fine short term but I have to hold my head like a pompous asshole and that's tiring.
  - jmkb 5y ago
    The 3M "Aura" N95s have a generous and durable nose pad that's basically eliminated this problem for me. They do get extremely humid on the inside though; I have to carry two and swap them every hour.
- dygd 5y ago
  Something else that works really well is the anti fog dry cloth/wipes. They're cheap and get rid of fogging completely.
- otikik 5y ago
  Soap (dry, no water) rubbed and spread with a paper towel until "apparently clean" also works - the thin layer of soap prevents fogging. You might have to try several brands of soap.
  - sleepybrett 5y ago
    I have some old ski goggle 'defogger' that's worked well for me. I assume it operates on the same principal. It's kind of a waxy stick that you rub on and spread out with a cloth.
- autoexec 5y ago
  early in the pandemic I had a very limited supply of N95 masks and when the nose wire got too deformed to keep a good seal I solved it with a tiny amount of spirit gum. Lots of solutions if you're willing to try.
CamperBob2 5y ago
and all the halfway measures we've taken haven't achieved their stated goals. You have some good points up until this one. Go to your local hospital and ask them how they'd like it if their case load went up by 2x due to a lack of "halfway measures." In some places, that will be OK, while in others, it will be utterly catastrophic. Obviously that doesn't justify ridiculous overreactions to unmasked toddlers, as you point out. But it's just as obvious that the inadequate measures being taken are nevertheless helpful on a population-wide basis.
- claytongulick 5y ago
  According to the article, in the only large randomized studies that have been performed, masking showed little, if any benefit. As far as I'm aware, most studies, including WHO, show that lockdowns were counter productive, and could result in increased transmission. I haven't seen a single study that showed school closures resulted in any decrease in transmission, or provided any benefit. I have seen many that showed the harms it imposed, though. These measures were ineffective. So, how do you justify saying that a hospital's case load would increase by 2X if we got rid of them, or had never done them?
  - DavidSJ 5y ago
    > According to the article, in the only large randomized studies that have been performed, masking showed little, if any benefit. From the first one [1] they linked: > odds ratio, 0.82 [CI, 0.54 to 1.23] … Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection. … Sounds like the issue is lack of statistical power. We basically can't conclude much at all from that study, but taken "at face value", that was an ~18% reduction in transmission. Presumably this would compound if done for longer or among more people due to exponential spread. Compound an 18% reduction for three generations (about ~15 days) of viral spread and that's about a 45% reduction in case load. Of course it's more complicated than that because a faster-spreading virus will also reach saturation of the susceptible population more quickly, but it does mean lowering peak hospital load, as well as lowering R_0 which means the point of saturation is smaller, etc. From the second one [2] they linked: > Proper mask-wearing increased from 13.3% in the control group to 42.3% in the intervention arm (adjusted percentage point difference = 0.29 [0.26, 0.31]). The intervention reduced symptomatic seroprevalence (adjusted prevalence ratio (aPR) = 0.91 [0.82, 1.00]) So that's a 9% reduction (again, with a wide confidence interval), as a result of increasing mask usage by only 29 percentage points. So if the signal's real, then presumably increasing mask usage further, say up to 85%, would add a very meaningful further reduction. Again, we can assume that would compound if done for longer or among a larger population. ** Furthermore, there have been plenty of lab experiments on masks which show them to be effective at filtering water droplet-bound Covid particles. And Covid is not the first virus we've ever encountered. In the absence of lots of data specific to Covid, we can apply background scientific knowledge about the effectiveness of masks in slowing the spread of respiratory disease. There are also costs to wearing masks, as well as to mask mandates, which I'm not taking into account in this post. But I wouldn't characterize the evidence as you have. ** [1] https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M20-6817 https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M20-6817 [2] https://www.poverty-action.org/publication/impact-community-masking-covid-19-cluster-randomized-trial-bangladesh https://www.poverty-action.org/publication/impact-community-...
champagnois 5y ago
Never mind the fact that they are not rated to filter viruses.
- elsonrodriguez 5y ago
  Many of the test aerosols they use to test N95s and similar are smaller than the coronavirus. Also they have done virus measurements from sick people through masks that prove there is filtration happening.
  - champagnois 5y ago
    N95s work via an electric polarity of the filter. This charge is what captures the viruses. Filtration fades when the charge is lost. I don't need to see your studies because I have helped build and certify N95 factories and know a lot about it. The masks arent usable for long and arent reusable, either. Cloth masks do nothing and are not a consideration to any serious adult.
    - elsonrodriguez 5y ago
      Why make the claim that n95s don't filter viruses and then say that they do indeed capture viruses? Also yes the filtration fades but there's data out there showing 40 hours of use on KF94s still showing filtration percentages in the low 90s.
      - champagnois 5y ago
        You misunderstood or I was not clear. N95s do filter viruses when used properly and still within their rated window of use.
    - AlexandrB 5y ago
      > N95s work via an electric polarity of the filter ...as well as mechanical filtration[1]. > To minimize the effect of electrostatic attraction, we used isopropanol (IPA) to remove nearly all dipole charges in the filter layer (Figure Figure77C) and measured the filtration efficiency. The filtration efficiencies of N95 respirators after IPA treatment decreased about 7–15% after removing all dipole charges. Such decreases in filtration efficiencies indicated that electrostatic charges contributed to the filtration performance. Others here have pointed to studies RE the efficacy of cloth masks. Which, while not great, is not 0 either. I'm willing to be wrong, but do you have any research showing that "Cloth masks do nothing"? [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7724761/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7724761/
phailhaus 5y ago
> Try taking a 6 hour flight with a 2 year old that's required to keep his mask on the entire flight, and when he takes it off (because he's 2, of course he's going to take it off) the flight attendants threaten to turn the plane around and ban you permanently. Never heard about this, source? Toddlers tend to be somewhat exempt from mask mandates because they're toddlers and everyone understands when they don't comply.
- ngngngng 5y ago
  https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/releases/2021/08/20/tsa-extends-face-mask-requirement-through-march-18-2022 https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/releases/2021/08/20/tsa-exten... The TSA mandate itself. Only those under age 2 are exempt from it. This is just for the US obviously, not sure about other places. But in my experience the less you paid for your ticket the more strict the airline is. I typically don't fly budget airlines but did once during the pandemic and that's when a flight attendant shouted at me and my wife when our toddler had taken his mask off and we didn't notice.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    They would probably be more patient and tolerant of children if they hadn't spent 2 years dealing with manchidren who scream at flight attendants and punch them in the face. I've actually never seen anyone on an airplane shout at all. Did they actually scream at you or merely speak tersely?
    - ryan93 5y ago
      They should hire attendants who can distinguish between grown men and toddlers
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- swamp40 5y ago
  In Illinois, wife teaches 2-3 yr olds. Masks are mandatory, all day long. Any pulldown gets pulled up. Nothing much goes on in the classroom anymore besides mask compliance and handwashing. It is INSANE. We have two children. Both masked for 7 hours a day. Every day. Both schools are VERY STRICT. Everybody is vaxxed and boosted. Doesn't matter.
psyc 5y ago
Wearing masks whenever possible doesn't bother me in the slightest. I've been loving it that COVID has normalized wearing a mask in public because I'd like to do it all the time for the rest of my life without being judged for it. But I don't want anybody mandating it. I've been trying to work out in my own mind why I switched to being more, uh, 'deontologist' if you will, several years ago. I'm just starting to almost be able to articulate it. If you take a consequentialist stance, then any catastrophe sufficient to put your chosen 'utility' at risk instantly justifies literally any measure that mitigates that risk. As long as the measure is outside the realm of the thing you regard as 'utility'. Is free speech for its own sake not part of 'utility' but only a means to increase it? Then out the window it goes when it causes problems. Same for privacy, leaving your home without permission from an authority, pretty much anything we think of as freedom. It greatly disturbs me to find the Overton Window in a place where I see smart Americans debating every day whether strongly authoritarian and invasive measures are OK, if they save lives.
- Hokusai 5y ago
  > Americans debating every day whether strongly authoritarian and invasive measures are OK, if they save lives. In Europe seatbelts are mandatory, and it is forbidden to smoke in most places. I think that these are reasonable measures. I think, for the exact same reasons, that mask mandates are reasonable. In public transport is mandatory to wear at least a t-shirt, as skin to skin contact gets unhealthy fast. And restaurants require to clean your hands after going to the toilet. What does not fit with my idea about the USA is that you can go naked in the street, as it seems quite a Puritan country. And books being censured in schools for mildly nudeness also seem to be the norm. Is not that worse that mask mandates? Edit: seatbelt
  - smhenderson 5y ago
    In Europe belts are mandatory I'm having a hard time understanding this one... Are you literally saying that belts that hold people's pants up are mandatory?
    - maxsilver 5y ago
tootie 5y ago
Katherine Wu has been a font of great information on Covid issues, especially vaccines. I noticed she's not party to this particular article. I'm wondering if she's gnashing her teeth right now or about to launch a Twitter tirade. This could just be The Atlantic giving space to a breadth of ideas rather than an actual endorsement of their thesis. And as a parent with two kids in school they have absolutely zero complaints about their masks and wear them all day even outside. They think they're cool and comfortable. Anecdote but it definitely colors my opinion.
AlexandrB 5y ago
> In general I find them to be a minor inconvenience, although I believe they're more inconvenient for me than most because I'm blind and no matter what I do they always fog up my glasses. I have this problem too with every surgical-style mask. However, at least some N95 masks fit me well enough that air doesn't escape around my nose and my glasses stay fog-free.
speedgeek 5y ago
https://www.tabsynth.com/product/badger-seal-mask-fitter/ https://www.tabsynth.com/product/badger-seal-mask-fitter/ I broke my nose playing baseball in high school and have an odd shaped ridge that prevents the metal in the mask from forming a tight seal. I use these to prevent fogging, works great for me.
not2b 5y ago
The Atlantic has lots of writers (on staff as well as guest writers) who have different positions. They do seem to be running a lot more "I'm done with this" articles lately.
dahfizz 5y ago
This is the kind of thing that just drives me crazy. If the mandates were at the very least logically consistent, I would not consider them a burden. "You are not allowed into the restaurant unless you are masked, but you may immediately take it off once you've walked 10 feet to your table" is nonsense. Forcing you to leave the coffee shop with everyone unmasking to drink anyway is nonsense. It is security theater. It is virtue signalling. And if you have the audacity to question the irrational rules, people unironically call you a murderer.
- sjg007 5y ago
  You walk by others while you are not at your table. What do you want to do? Hold your breath? Not to mention bathrooms and so forth. Presumably the tables are well spaced etc...
  - pcmoney 5y ago
    In an open air room, the difference between walking past and sitting in the same room as is negligible. Total theatre, does nothing besides allowing restaurants and patrons to feel ok/that they are “doing something” and stay open.
    - sleepybrett 5y ago
      Which is why indoor dining rooms should still be closed. Pretending we aren't living through a pandemic that is respiratory in nature is fucking madness. Maybe if we had locked down harder for longer and treated this thing seriously in the beginning we wouldn't be almost two years into this with no end in sight.
      - pcmoney 5y ago
        No, Covid is low risk if you are vaccinated and elderly/at risk and extremely low risk if you are younger (vaccinated or not) It’s endemic. Its not going away. We are all going to get it. (Me: triple vaxxed, had covid 2x) Getting vaccinated is a personal heath decision (which I encourage) Time to move on.
xdennis 5y ago
> although I believe they're more inconvenient for me than most because I'm blind and no matter what I do they always fog up my glasses Sorry if this is an insensitive, stupid question, but why do foggy glasses bother you if you're blind?
- nradov 5y ago
  The majority of visually impaired people who are legally classified as "blind" still have some visual perception and glasses can help maximize that.
- ngngngng 5y ago
  Sorry, left it vague for brevity. I'm unable to do all sorts of things without glasses, such as reading or driving. I'm not legally blind, I just have terrible vision. So if I'm in a restaurant trying to see the menu and my mask causes my glasses to fog up there's nothing I can do. I can't see through the fog, and I can't read without glasses.
sgt 5y ago
I was never really a good mask wearer. Ideally I keep a distance but at this point of the pandemic I've just started taking the mask off or leaving it at home. There is a mask mandate where I live if you go to the store and so on, but I haven't had any complaints yet. I'm just drawing a line in the sand at this point.

downrightmike 5y ago

bandaid over the nose and mask should stop your fogging. You can also use a little saliva on the lenses like they do in scuba diving. I usually just move the glasses a little further down my nose and that does like 95% of the solution.

ngngngng 5y ago
I haven't tried saliva. Usually I just end up with my mask way up my nose and my glasses moved down my nose. That works fine short term but I have to hold my head like a pompous asshole and that's tiring.
- jmkb 5y ago
  The 3M "Aura" N95s have a generous and durable nose pad that's basically eliminated this problem for me. They do get extremely humid on the inside though; I have to carry two and swap them every hour.
dygd 5y ago
Something else that works really well is the anti fog dry cloth/wipes. They're cheap and get rid of fogging completely.
otikik 5y ago
Soap (dry, no water) rubbed and spread with a paper towel until "apparently clean" also works - the thin layer of soap prevents fogging. You might have to try several brands of soap.
- sleepybrett 5y ago
  I have some old ski goggle 'defogger' that's worked well for me. I assume it operates on the same principal. It's kind of a waxy stick that you rub on and spread out with a cloth.
autoexec 5y ago
early in the pandemic I had a very limited supply of N95 masks and when the nose wire got too deformed to keep a good seal I solved it with a tiny amount of spirit gum. Lots of solutions if you're willing to try.

CamperBob2 5y ago

and all the halfway measures we've taken haven't achieved their stated goals. You have some good points up until this one. Go to your local hospital and ask them how they'd like it if their case load went up by 2x due to a lack of "halfway measures." In some places, that will be OK, while in others, it will be utterly catastrophic. Obviously that doesn't justify ridiculous overreactions to unmasked toddlers, as you point out. But it's just as obvious that the inadequate measures being taken are nevertheless helpful on a population-wide basis.

claytongulick 5y ago
According to the article, in the only large randomized studies that have been performed, masking showed little, if any benefit. As far as I'm aware, most studies, including WHO, show that lockdowns were counter productive, and could result in increased transmission. I haven't seen a single study that showed school closures resulted in any decrease in transmission, or provided any benefit. I have seen many that showed the harms it imposed, though. These measures were ineffective. So, how do you justify saying that a hospital's case load would increase by 2X if we got rid of them, or had never done them?
- DavidSJ 5y ago
  > According to the article, in the only large randomized studies that have been performed, masking showed little, if any benefit. From the first one [1] they linked: > odds ratio, 0.82 [CI, 0.54 to 1.23] … Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection. … Sounds like the issue is lack of statistical power. We basically can't conclude much at all from that study, but taken "at face value", that was an ~18% reduction in transmission. Presumably this would compound if done for longer or among more people due to exponential spread. Compound an 18% reduction for three generations (about ~15 days) of viral spread and that's about a 45% reduction in case load. Of course it's more complicated than that because a faster-spreading virus will also reach saturation of the susceptible population more quickly, but it does mean lowering peak hospital load, as well as lowering R_0 which means the point of saturation is smaller, etc. From the second one [2] they linked: > Proper mask-wearing increased from 13.3% in the control group to 42.3% in the intervention arm (adjusted percentage point difference = 0.29 [0.26, 0.31]). The intervention reduced symptomatic seroprevalence (adjusted prevalence ratio (aPR) = 0.91 [0.82, 1.00]) So that's a 9% reduction (again, with a wide confidence interval), as a result of increasing mask usage by only 29 percentage points. So if the signal's real, then presumably increasing mask usage further, say up to 85%, would add a very meaningful further reduction. Again, we can assume that would compound if done for longer or among a larger population. ** Furthermore, there have been plenty of lab experiments on masks which show them to be effective at filtering water droplet-bound Covid particles. And Covid is not the first virus we've ever encountered. In the absence of lots of data specific to Covid, we can apply background scientific knowledge about the effectiveness of masks in slowing the spread of respiratory disease. There are also costs to wearing masks, as well as to mask mandates, which I'm not taking into account in this post. But I wouldn't characterize the evidence as you have. ** [1] https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M20-6817 https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M20-6817 [2] https://www.poverty-action.org/publication/impact-community-masking-covid-19-cluster-randomized-trial-bangladesh https://www.poverty-action.org/publication/impact-community-...

champagnois 5y ago

Never mind the fact that they are not rated to filter viruses.

elsonrodriguez 5y ago
Many of the test aerosols they use to test N95s and similar are smaller than the coronavirus. Also they have done virus measurements from sick people through masks that prove there is filtration happening.
- champagnois 5y ago
  N95s work via an electric polarity of the filter. This charge is what captures the viruses. Filtration fades when the charge is lost. I don't need to see your studies because I have helped build and certify N95 factories and know a lot about it. The masks arent usable for long and arent reusable, either. Cloth masks do nothing and are not a consideration to any serious adult.
  - elsonrodriguez 5y ago
    Why make the claim that n95s don't filter viruses and then say that they do indeed capture viruses? Also yes the filtration fades but there's data out there showing 40 hours of use on KF94s still showing filtration percentages in the low 90s.
    - champagnois 5y ago
      You misunderstood or I was not clear. N95s do filter viruses when used properly and still within their rated window of use.
  - AlexandrB 5y ago
    > N95s work via an electric polarity of the filter ...as well as mechanical filtration[1]. > To minimize the effect of electrostatic attraction, we used isopropanol (IPA) to remove nearly all dipole charges in the filter layer (Figure Figure77C) and measured the filtration efficiency. The filtration efficiencies of N95 respirators after IPA treatment decreased about 7–15% after removing all dipole charges. Such decreases in filtration efficiencies indicated that electrostatic charges contributed to the filtration performance. Others here have pointed to studies RE the efficacy of cloth masks. Which, while not great, is not 0 either. I'm willing to be wrong, but do you have any research showing that "Cloth masks do nothing"? [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7724761/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7724761/

phailhaus 5y ago

> Try taking a 6 hour flight with a 2 year old that's required to keep his mask on the entire flight, and when he takes it off (because he's 2, of course he's going to take it off) the flight attendants threaten to turn the plane around and ban you permanently. Never heard about this, source? Toddlers tend to be somewhat exempt from mask mandates because they're toddlers and everyone understands when they don't comply.

ngngngng 5y ago
https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/releases/2021/08/20/tsa-extends-face-mask-requirement-through-march-18-2022 https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/releases/2021/08/20/tsa-exten... The TSA mandate itself. Only those under age 2 are exempt from it. This is just for the US obviously, not sure about other places. But in my experience the less you paid for your ticket the more strict the airline is. I typically don't fly budget airlines but did once during the pandemic and that's when a flight attendant shouted at me and my wife when our toddler had taken his mask off and we didn't notice.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  They would probably be more patient and tolerant of children if they hadn't spent 2 years dealing with manchidren who scream at flight attendants and punch them in the face. I've actually never seen anyone on an airplane shout at all. Did they actually scream at you or merely speak tersely?
  - ryan93 5y ago
    They should hire attendants who can distinguish between grown men and toddlers
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
swamp40 5y ago
In Illinois, wife teaches 2-3 yr olds. Masks are mandatory, all day long. Any pulldown gets pulled up. Nothing much goes on in the classroom anymore besides mask compliance and handwashing. It is INSANE. We have two children. Both masked for 7 hours a day. Every day. Both schools are VERY STRICT. Everybody is vaxxed and boosted. Doesn't matter.

psyc 5y ago

Wearing masks whenever possible doesn't bother me in the slightest. I've been loving it that COVID has normalized wearing a mask in public because I'd like to do it all the time for the rest of my life without being judged for it. But I don't want anybody mandating it. I've been trying to work out in my own mind why I switched to being more, uh, 'deontologist' if you will, several years ago. I'm just starting to almost be able to articulate it. If you take a consequentialist stance, then any catastrophe sufficient to put your chosen 'utility' at risk instantly justifies literally any measure that mitigates that risk. As long as the measure is outside the realm of the thing you regard as 'utility'. Is free speech for its own sake not part of 'utility' but only a means to increase it? Then out the window it goes when it causes problems. Same for privacy, leaving your home without permission from an authority, pretty much anything we think of as freedom. It greatly disturbs me to find the Overton Window in a place where I see smart Americans debating every day whether strongly authoritarian and invasive measures are OK, if they save lives.

Hokusai 5y ago
> Americans debating every day whether strongly authoritarian and invasive measures are OK, if they save lives. In Europe seatbelts are mandatory, and it is forbidden to smoke in most places. I think that these are reasonable measures. I think, for the exact same reasons, that mask mandates are reasonable. In public transport is mandatory to wear at least a t-shirt, as skin to skin contact gets unhealthy fast. And restaurants require to clean your hands after going to the toilet. What does not fit with my idea about the USA is that you can go naked in the street, as it seems quite a Puritan country. And books being censured in schools for mildly nudeness also seem to be the norm. Is not that worse that mask mandates? Edit: seatbelt
- smhenderson 5y ago
  In Europe belts are mandatory I'm having a hard time understanding this one... Are you literally saying that belts that hold people's pants up are mandatory?
  - maxsilver 5y ago

tootie 5y ago

Katherine Wu has been a font of great information on Covid issues, especially vaccines. I noticed she's not party to this particular article. I'm wondering if she's gnashing her teeth right now or about to launch a Twitter tirade. This could just be The Atlantic giving space to a breadth of ideas rather than an actual endorsement of their thesis. And as a parent with two kids in school they have absolutely zero complaints about their masks and wear them all day even outside. They think they're cool and comfortable. Anecdote but it definitely colors my opinion.

AlexandrB 5y ago

> In general I find them to be a minor inconvenience, although I believe they're more inconvenient for me than most because I'm blind and no matter what I do they always fog up my glasses. I have this problem too with every surgical-style mask. However, at least some N95 masks fit me well enough that air doesn't escape around my nose and my glasses stay fog-free.

speedgeek 5y ago

https://www.tabsynth.com/product/badger-seal-mask-fitter/ https://www.tabsynth.com/product/badger-seal-mask-fitter/ I broke my nose playing baseball in high school and have an odd shaped ridge that prevents the metal in the mask from forming a tight seal. I use these to prevent fogging, works great for me.

not2b 5y ago

The Atlantic has lots of writers (on staff as well as guest writers) who have different positions. They do seem to be running a lot more "I'm done with this" articles lately.

dahfizz 5y ago

This is the kind of thing that just drives me crazy. If the mandates were at the very least logically consistent, I would not consider them a burden. "You are not allowed into the restaurant unless you are masked, but you may immediately take it off once you've walked 10 feet to your table" is nonsense. Forcing you to leave the coffee shop with everyone unmasking to drink anyway is nonsense. It is security theater. It is virtue signalling. And if you have the audacity to question the irrational rules, people unironically call you a murderer.

sjg007 5y ago
You walk by others while you are not at your table. What do you want to do? Hold your breath? Not to mention bathrooms and so forth. Presumably the tables are well spaced etc...
- pcmoney 5y ago
  In an open air room, the difference between walking past and sitting in the same room as is negligible. Total theatre, does nothing besides allowing restaurants and patrons to feel ok/that they are “doing something” and stay open.
  - sleepybrett 5y ago
    Which is why indoor dining rooms should still be closed. Pretending we aren't living through a pandemic that is respiratory in nature is fucking madness. Maybe if we had locked down harder for longer and treated this thing seriously in the beginning we wouldn't be almost two years into this with no end in sight.
    - pcmoney 5y ago
      No, Covid is low risk if you are vaccinated and elderly/at risk and extremely low risk if you are younger (vaccinated or not) It’s endemic. Its not going away. We are all going to get it. (Me: triple vaxxed, had covid 2x) Getting vaccinated is a personal heath decision (which I encourage) Time to move on.

xdennis 5y ago

> although I believe they're more inconvenient for me than most because I'm blind and no matter what I do they always fog up my glasses Sorry if this is an insensitive, stupid question, but why do foggy glasses bother you if you're blind?

nradov 5y ago
The majority of visually impaired people who are legally classified as "blind" still have some visual perception and glasses can help maximize that.
ngngngng 5y ago
Sorry, left it vague for brevity. I'm unable to do all sorts of things without glasses, such as reading or driving. I'm not legally blind, I just have terrible vision. So if I'm in a restaurant trying to see the menu and my mask causes my glasses to fog up there's nothing I can do. I can't see through the fog, and I can't read without glasses.

sgt 5y ago

I was never really a good mask wearer. Ideally I keep a distance but at this point of the pandemic I've just started taking the mask off or leaving it at home. There is a mask mandate where I live if you go to the store and so on, but I haven't had any complaints yet. I'm just drawing a line in the sand at this point.