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How about if you have anxiety issues and the reduced inflow of air from masks gives you panic attacks? This has been my life for this pandemic. I take medicatio

How about if you have anxiety issues and the reduced inflow of air from masks gives you panic attacks? This has been my life for this pandemic. I take medication but it does not stop them 100% from happening, and I have to use anti-anxiety techniques most times I put one on to stop from being overwhelmed by anticipation. Does anyone care about people like me? It sure feels like they don't. And I have seen my physical and mental condition degrade largely due to this (I was never personally panicked by the virus itself). There are others like me and it is deeply upsetting that we have to suffer like this.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
[ EDIT: other commenters response to this comment made me go look up some original research on the topic. As a result, I fully retract what I've said below. I found several papers that report substantial restrictions of airflow from wearing a correctly fitted N95 mask. I was wrong, and I apologize for the misinformation. I did try to explicitly say that I was not doubting someone's experiences, but I apologize for appearing to do that too. I've left the text up because that seems more honest. ] I do not want to seek to diminish your very real anxiety and panic issues. But you should be aware that there is no actual reduced inflow of air due to mask wearing, certainly not one that you would detect physiologically. In 2020, there were numerous demonstrations of this, both with actual measurements (lung volume, blood oxygen etc.) and with more anecdotal illustrations such as vigorous exercise even while wearing multiple masks. Your mental conditions matter, and I hope you are able find ways to live reasonably happily without too much anxiety.
- hydrok9 5y ago
  I do not want to seek to diminish your very real belief that my issues are not real. But they are. My panic attacks in public started when I had to wear masks. When I am anxious or stressed, my breathing shallows. When this happens and I am wearing a mask, i have even less airflow coming in. I have tested this by simply lowering my mask, and examining how much air enters my nasal cavity. It is a huge difference. Or, I should say, it makes a huge difference to my mental state, even if the change in oxygen is relatively small. My psychiatrist, therapist and gp all confirmed this. Frankly, you should trust people with these actual conditions. We are living it, you aren't.
  - mh- 5y ago
    I wonder if the shallowed breathing is a physiological response that only some of us experience while wearing masks. It could explain why there are two very different experiences for people when masked. I fortunately don't experience panic attacks from wearing a mask, but I will consistently get a headache from wearing one. And it's the same-feeling kind of headache I get from being in another enclosed space without air circulation.
    - hydrok9 5y ago
      It could be. To me it doesn't feel like there is a difference in the cadence of my breathing, after I put the mask on. I simply have less oxygen coming in. I probably should be breathing more deeply, all the time! Then perhaps the mask wouldn't make a noticeable difference. But after a lifetime of dealing with anxiety, I've learned to trust my body. My mind can lie to me when im anxious, but my body generally doesn't.
      - mh- 5y ago
        Yeah, this matches my experience as well. The air simply feels less.. airy. Like I can't get a deep enough breath. I'd love to understand the science behind it.
        boilerupnc 5y ago
        "Polypropylene is a commonly used material for N95 type respirators. In order for small particles to get through a filter composed of interlaced layers of polypropylene fibers, they have to wind through a rather tortuous path and as a result would likely be trapped in the material." [0] [0] https://qcmask.com/pages/the-science-of-masks https://qcmask.com/pages/the-science-of-masks
      - Domenic_S 5y ago
        Not disagreeing with any of your comments about masks; but FWIW, as another person with a diagnosed & medicated anxiety disorder, your (our) body(ies) absolutely do lie to us. It's an inappropriate physiological response (fight/flight/etc) to stimuli. The panic response _is the lie_. It was that realization/training through therapy that helped make my disorder manageable, knowing that just because my body thinks it's in danger of dying doesn't mean it actually is.
- mh- 5y ago
  Genuine question- how is that actually possible? Surely there is, at minimum, an unstated variable here like "effort required to inhale the same volume of air"? Or the composition of the air? I'm not an expert in this area, but as someone who "feels" like I'm getting less oxygen and is willing to consider that my body is tricking me, help me understand. edit: I shouldn't have to say this, but I'll mention I'm vaccinated+boosted and have complied with the mask mandates. I just don't understand these unintuitive claims.
  - hydrok9 5y ago
    There is no way that you are not having your intake of air restricted by putting a piece of cloth or fabric over your face. For the average person it probably doesn't make a difference in the way their body or mind works. But small changes can and do make a huge difference in people who are not neurotypical, or have breathing issues due to their sinuses.
    - mh- 5y ago
      That is my assertion as well. The simple physics of it require that filtering air effectively will reduce the air-for-effort. If you're not experiencing this, you're pulling air from around the sides of your mask. (Note that not noticing it is not the same as not experiencing it.)
- buzzert 5y ago
  Blood-oxygen level is not relevant when it comes to mental well-being. I have the exact same problem as the parent commenter. I've tried exercising with a mask (cloth and surgical), and it feels like getting waterboarded (because the mask inevitably becomes soaked in sweat). It causes a great amount of anxiety for me, and literally feels like torture. I don't care about what lung volume/blood oxygen "studies" say.
  - hydrok9 5y ago
    Thank you
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Jcampuzano2 5y ago
    I am double vaxed+boosted, and I still wear a mask everywhere I'm required to which includes still going to the gym 3-4 times a week. My gym has gone back and forth between masks being required or not with the case count. I know I've read everything about airflow being fine, and there being no reduced oxygen intake, but having worked out with and without a mask depending on location in the past 2 years I can attest anecdotally as somebody with no health problems that even if only anecdotal it is way more taxing/difficult to recover breath when working out with a mask on, and can be borderline anxiety/torture especially after very intense sets or cardiovascular effort. It easily takes me at least a couple more minutes to recover my breath/rest in between very hard sets of heavy squats for instance as compared to when not wearing a mask.
    - speg 5y ago
      As an aside, have you noticed any improvements from training with a mask on? Is it like how runners might train at high altitude, so when you come back to normal levels you are more efficient?
      - hedgehog 5y ago
        A good while back I looked at restrictors for training and my recollection is they didn't show any benefit in studies. Unclear why. They're a lot tougher than any respirator I've tried so I wouldn't expect the respirator to have any benefit that direction. Altitude tents apparently do work but are more trouble and risk than I'm comfortable with.
- cartoonfoxes 5y ago
  >But you should be aware that there is no actual reduced inflow of air due to mask wearing Huh? From https://weintraubcenter.dentistry.ucla.edu/n95-respirators-testing https://weintraubcenter.dentistry.ucla.edu/n95-respirators-t... >Pressure drop is a measure of the resistance that the air meets as it flows through the respirator filter and into the mask. This is important because the pressure drop affects the comfort and breathability of the mask- specifically a lower pressure drop is desirable as it translates to increased breathability and thus comfort. > On average, those that have high filtration efficiency are also the ones with the largest pressure drop, which make it difficult to breath. I'm aware not everyone is wearing a N95 or better respirator, but the metric applies to all masks.
  - amluto 5y ago
    There are some genuine N95 duckbill style masks that have much lower pressure drop.
- giantg2 5y ago
  "no actual reduced inflow of air due to mask wearing, certainly not one that you would detect physiologically." Depends on how you measure it and what you mean by physiologically detect. Generally, the resistance of breathing through a ("good") mask is not automatically detectable, but does exist and one could detect it if they are attentive. Your body tends to increase tidal volume and/or respiration rate because of the rebreathing of the stale under the mask. There are certainly studies that measure the physiological effects, such that we set 15 minute and 8 hour limits on CO2 exposure etc. Granted it's largely not an issue, but it's not necessarily correct to say that it offers no restriction and no physiological changes.
  - 323 5y ago
    Notice how they said "no reduced inflow", not "no increased effort".
    - giantg2 5y ago
      They've since edited. "EDIT: other commenters response to this comment made me go look up some original research on the topic. As a result, I fully retract what I've said below. I found several papers that report substantial restrictions of airflow from wearing a correctly fitted N95 mask."
- jaywalk 5y ago
  Pure, unadulterated BS. I was in the hospital for a few days last year (unrelated to Covid) and as part of the standard discharge process, I had to walk around (with a mask on) while my blood oxygen was measured. It was slightly low, so the nurse said "take off your mask for a second" and sure enough, it popped right back up to normal. She said she sees it with almost everyone. You're breathing in less air, and more CO2. There is no way it's not going to have an impact.
- tintor 5y ago
  You must be joking! Have you tried exercising with surgical mask or N95 respirator? I train regularly with N95 since Omicron started and they definitely negatively affect airflow and aerobic exercise performance. N95 respirator even more than surgical mask. I am used to them and don't have anxiety, but they aren't comfortable at all. They also affect temperature of air that you are inhaling as it mixes inside the mask with the hot air that you exhale, increasing your rest and cooldown time.
- subsubzero 5y ago
  What are you talking about with masks not restricting airflow, totally not correct and absolute misinformation. Here is what happens when you wear a mask while exercising hard: https://ktvz.com/news/coronavirus/2021/04/26/summit-hs-runner-collapses-at-finish-line-coach-calls-for-revised-mask-mandate/ https://ktvz.com/news/coronavirus/2021/04/26/summit-hs-runne...
- adamrezich 5y ago
  the retraction is appreciated but, if you'll excuse me for saying so, the fact that you thought this at all shows that we're well into "brainwashing" territory with this mask nonsense. it should be beyond obvious to any neutral observer that putting a covering over one's nose and mouth will affect their breathing airflow, especially so when exercising. you don't even have to try it yourself to intuit this, it's just common sense. but once you have tried it, there should be zero doubt in your mind that your breathing airflow is affected, especially if you're actually going out of your way to ensure that you've sealed the mask on your face properly. I don't say this to shame or disparage you specifically, but instead to point out how people, broadly, are having their thoughts programmed, on a massive scale, to truly believe things that are obviously contradictory to reality. this should be very concerning to everyone.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    > the fact that you thought this at all shows that we're well into "brainwashing" territory with this mask nonsense. I don't agree with that. As noted, blood oxygen levels for most people are not changed by mask wearing (presumably, most of us just add the extra 20-30% effort to keep the airflow up and/or were nowhere near close to requiring the full breath). > once you have tried it, there should be zero doubt in your mind that your breathing airflow is affected As some comments in the main thread here have noted, masks like the 3M Aura+ (which I've been wearing for a few months now) really do not have much impact on breathing airflow. My actual experience of wearing KN95's and N95's even while running is that I do not feel that my airflow is impacted at all. My mistake was to combine that actual personal experience together with data on physiological state while wearing masks (not changed much in most people) and make the false claim that there was no impact on airflow. Some of those comments noted that the construction and fit of the mask can make a huge difference - damp cloth masks, for example, do seem to have an outsize impact. I have never used cloth masks during the pandemic, and I live in an exceedingly dry climate, so people I know who have worn them have not commented much on the effects of them being damp. So, no, I do not agree that what I said (even while actually false) was "obviously contradictory to reality".
    - 5y ago
- fourseventy 5y ago
  Put on an n95 mask then run 5k and tell me with a straight face that it doesn't inhibit air flow.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

[ EDIT: other commenters response to this comment made me go look up some original research on the topic. As a result, I fully retract what I've said below. I found several papers that report substantial restrictions of airflow from wearing a correctly fitted N95 mask. I was wrong, and I apologize for the misinformation. I did try to explicitly say that I was not doubting someone's experiences, but I apologize for appearing to do that too. I've left the text up because that seems more honest. ] I do not want to seek to diminish your very real anxiety and panic issues. But you should be aware that there is no actual reduced inflow of air due to mask wearing, certainly not one that you would detect physiologically. In 2020, there were numerous demonstrations of this, both with actual measurements (lung volume, blood oxygen etc.) and with more anecdotal illustrations such as vigorous exercise even while wearing multiple masks. Your mental conditions matter, and I hope you are able find ways to live reasonably happily without too much anxiety.

hydrok9 5y ago
I do not want to seek to diminish your very real belief that my issues are not real. But they are. My panic attacks in public started when I had to wear masks. When I am anxious or stressed, my breathing shallows. When this happens and I am wearing a mask, i have even less airflow coming in. I have tested this by simply lowering my mask, and examining how much air enters my nasal cavity. It is a huge difference. Or, I should say, it makes a huge difference to my mental state, even if the change in oxygen is relatively small. My psychiatrist, therapist and gp all confirmed this. Frankly, you should trust people with these actual conditions. We are living it, you aren't.
- mh- 5y ago
  I wonder if the shallowed breathing is a physiological response that only some of us experience while wearing masks. It could explain why there are two very different experiences for people when masked. I fortunately don't experience panic attacks from wearing a mask, but I will consistently get a headache from wearing one. And it's the same-feeling kind of headache I get from being in another enclosed space without air circulation.
  - hydrok9 5y ago
    It could be. To me it doesn't feel like there is a difference in the cadence of my breathing, after I put the mask on. I simply have less oxygen coming in. I probably should be breathing more deeply, all the time! Then perhaps the mask wouldn't make a noticeable difference. But after a lifetime of dealing with anxiety, I've learned to trust my body. My mind can lie to me when im anxious, but my body generally doesn't.
    - mh- 5y ago
      Yeah, this matches my experience as well. The air simply feels less.. airy. Like I can't get a deep enough breath. I'd love to understand the science behind it.
      - boilerupnc 5y ago
        "Polypropylene is a commonly used material for N95 type respirators. In order for small particles to get through a filter composed of interlaced layers of polypropylene fibers, they have to wind through a rather tortuous path and as a result would likely be trapped in the material." [0] [0] https://qcmask.com/pages/the-science-of-masks https://qcmask.com/pages/the-science-of-masks
    - Domenic_S 5y ago
      Not disagreeing with any of your comments about masks; but FWIW, as another person with a diagnosed & medicated anxiety disorder, your (our) body(ies) absolutely do lie to us. It's an inappropriate physiological response (fight/flight/etc) to stimuli. The panic response _is the lie_. It was that realization/training through therapy that helped make my disorder manageable, knowing that just because my body thinks it's in danger of dying doesn't mean it actually is.
mh- 5y ago
Genuine question- how is that actually possible? Surely there is, at minimum, an unstated variable here like "effort required to inhale the same volume of air"? Or the composition of the air? I'm not an expert in this area, but as someone who "feels" like I'm getting less oxygen and is willing to consider that my body is tricking me, help me understand. edit: I shouldn't have to say this, but I'll mention I'm vaccinated+boosted and have complied with the mask mandates. I just don't understand these unintuitive claims.
- hydrok9 5y ago
  There is no way that you are not having your intake of air restricted by putting a piece of cloth or fabric over your face. For the average person it probably doesn't make a difference in the way their body or mind works. But small changes can and do make a huge difference in people who are not neurotypical, or have breathing issues due to their sinuses.
  - mh- 5y ago
    That is my assertion as well. The simple physics of it require that filtering air effectively will reduce the air-for-effort. If you're not experiencing this, you're pulling air from around the sides of your mask. (Note that not noticing it is not the same as not experiencing it.)
buzzert 5y ago
Blood-oxygen level is not relevant when it comes to mental well-being. I have the exact same problem as the parent commenter. I've tried exercising with a mask (cloth and surgical), and it feels like getting waterboarded (because the mask inevitably becomes soaked in sweat). It causes a great amount of anxiety for me, and literally feels like torture. I don't care about what lung volume/blood oxygen "studies" say.
- hydrok9 5y ago
  Thank you
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Jcampuzano2 5y ago
  I am double vaxed+boosted, and I still wear a mask everywhere I'm required to which includes still going to the gym 3-4 times a week. My gym has gone back and forth between masks being required or not with the case count. I know I've read everything about airflow being fine, and there being no reduced oxygen intake, but having worked out with and without a mask depending on location in the past 2 years I can attest anecdotally as somebody with no health problems that even if only anecdotal it is way more taxing/difficult to recover breath when working out with a mask on, and can be borderline anxiety/torture especially after very intense sets or cardiovascular effort. It easily takes me at least a couple more minutes to recover my breath/rest in between very hard sets of heavy squats for instance as compared to when not wearing a mask.
  - speg 5y ago
    As an aside, have you noticed any improvements from training with a mask on? Is it like how runners might train at high altitude, so when you come back to normal levels you are more efficient?
    - hedgehog 5y ago
      A good while back I looked at restrictors for training and my recollection is they didn't show any benefit in studies. Unclear why. They're a lot tougher than any respirator I've tried so I wouldn't expect the respirator to have any benefit that direction. Altitude tents apparently do work but are more trouble and risk than I'm comfortable with.
cartoonfoxes 5y ago
>But you should be aware that there is no actual reduced inflow of air due to mask wearing Huh? From https://weintraubcenter.dentistry.ucla.edu/n95-respirators-testing https://weintraubcenter.dentistry.ucla.edu/n95-respirators-t... >Pressure drop is a measure of the resistance that the air meets as it flows through the respirator filter and into the mask. This is important because the pressure drop affects the comfort and breathability of the mask- specifically a lower pressure drop is desirable as it translates to increased breathability and thus comfort. > On average, those that have high filtration efficiency are also the ones with the largest pressure drop, which make it difficult to breath. I'm aware not everyone is wearing a N95 or better respirator, but the metric applies to all masks.
- amluto 5y ago
  There are some genuine N95 duckbill style masks that have much lower pressure drop.
giantg2 5y ago
"no actual reduced inflow of air due to mask wearing, certainly not one that you would detect physiologically." Depends on how you measure it and what you mean by physiologically detect. Generally, the resistance of breathing through a ("good") mask is not automatically detectable, but does exist and one could detect it if they are attentive. Your body tends to increase tidal volume and/or respiration rate because of the rebreathing of the stale under the mask. There are certainly studies that measure the physiological effects, such that we set 15 minute and 8 hour limits on CO2 exposure etc. Granted it's largely not an issue, but it's not necessarily correct to say that it offers no restriction and no physiological changes.
- 323 5y ago
  Notice how they said "no reduced inflow", not "no increased effort".
  - giantg2 5y ago
    They've since edited. "EDIT: other commenters response to this comment made me go look up some original research on the topic. As a result, I fully retract what I've said below. I found several papers that report substantial restrictions of airflow from wearing a correctly fitted N95 mask."
jaywalk 5y ago
Pure, unadulterated BS. I was in the hospital for a few days last year (unrelated to Covid) and as part of the standard discharge process, I had to walk around (with a mask on) while my blood oxygen was measured. It was slightly low, so the nurse said "take off your mask for a second" and sure enough, it popped right back up to normal. She said she sees it with almost everyone. You're breathing in less air, and more CO2. There is no way it's not going to have an impact.
tintor 5y ago
You must be joking! Have you tried exercising with surgical mask or N95 respirator? I train regularly with N95 since Omicron started and they definitely negatively affect airflow and aerobic exercise performance. N95 respirator even more than surgical mask. I am used to them and don't have anxiety, but they aren't comfortable at all. They also affect temperature of air that you are inhaling as it mixes inside the mask with the hot air that you exhale, increasing your rest and cooldown time.
subsubzero 5y ago
What are you talking about with masks not restricting airflow, totally not correct and absolute misinformation. Here is what happens when you wear a mask while exercising hard: https://ktvz.com/news/coronavirus/2021/04/26/summit-hs-runner-collapses-at-finish-line-coach-calls-for-revised-mask-mandate/ https://ktvz.com/news/coronavirus/2021/04/26/summit-hs-runne...
adamrezich 5y ago
the retraction is appreciated but, if you'll excuse me for saying so, the fact that you thought this at all shows that we're well into "brainwashing" territory with this mask nonsense. it should be beyond obvious to any neutral observer that putting a covering over one's nose and mouth will affect their breathing airflow, especially so when exercising. you don't even have to try it yourself to intuit this, it's just common sense. but once you have tried it, there should be zero doubt in your mind that your breathing airflow is affected, especially if you're actually going out of your way to ensure that you've sealed the mask on your face properly. I don't say this to shame or disparage you specifically, but instead to point out how people, broadly, are having their thoughts programmed, on a massive scale, to truly believe things that are obviously contradictory to reality. this should be very concerning to everyone.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  > the fact that you thought this at all shows that we're well into "brainwashing" territory with this mask nonsense. I don't agree with that. As noted, blood oxygen levels for most people are not changed by mask wearing (presumably, most of us just add the extra 20-30% effort to keep the airflow up and/or were nowhere near close to requiring the full breath). > once you have tried it, there should be zero doubt in your mind that your breathing airflow is affected As some comments in the main thread here have noted, masks like the 3M Aura+ (which I've been wearing for a few months now) really do not have much impact on breathing airflow. My actual experience of wearing KN95's and N95's even while running is that I do not feel that my airflow is impacted at all. My mistake was to combine that actual personal experience together with data on physiological state while wearing masks (not changed much in most people) and make the false claim that there was no impact on airflow. Some of those comments noted that the construction and fit of the mask can make a huge difference - damp cloth masks, for example, do seem to have an outsize impact. I have never used cloth masks during the pandemic, and I live in an exceedingly dry climate, so people I know who have worn them have not commented much on the effects of them being damp. So, no, I do not agree that what I said (even while actually false) was "obviously contradictory to reality".
  - 5y ago
fourseventy 5y ago
Put on an n95 mask then run 5k and tell me with a straight face that it doesn't inhibit air flow.