4 ms·

> dangerous anti-scientific medical advice' That sounds like an opinion. One that lacks substance and likely couldn't actually be proven as stated, but an opin

by cronix 5y ago

> dangerous anti-scientific medical advice' That sounds like an opinion. One that lacks substance and likely couldn't actually be proven as stated, but an opinion I'm happy you can express openly. I'm also appreciative of other opinions I hear on Joe's show, and others. Can you appreciate that building up a false dichotomy and then asking someone if they can spot the difference is disingenuous?

micromacrofoot 5y ago
This is the same kind of rhetoric Rogan uses to say nothing and make it sound like it's a worthwhile opinion. Yeah, taking ivermectin to treat covid despite doctor's advice is objectively dangerous... people have actually died trying to take horse de-wormer. Rogan still spreads this nonsense. You're appreciative of Joe having Jordan Peterson on to ramble about things like "climate doesn't exist"? In the same episode Rogan says it's "weird" to call black people black because they're not dark enough to be considered black technically. You feel like you've gained something from this exchange?
- cronix 5y ago
  > despite doctor's advice Despite some doctor's advice.... Joe's doctor prescribed him human grade ivermectin, not "horse dewormer." HIS doctor. So HIS doctors advice was to take it, along with monoclonal antibodies, along with vitamins, and other things. He listened to HIS doctor, and recovered, and then told people what HE did. So it's Joe's fault some idiots took horse dewormer after he never mentioned those words? Please show where Joe, actually Joe and not a report of it, once recommended anyone take "horse dewormer" using those words. That was CNN's specific framing and where those words first showed up. They used those words, Joe didn't. Are you aware of that? The first time "horse dewormer" came out of Joe's mouth was in response to CNN's publicly false characterization of what he said. Haven't heard Jordan's interview yet, but thanks for the heads up. I'm sure there will be something in the 4+ hour interview that I will gain, or will provoke thought, or cause me to go look something up, and some things I don't agree with or learn I was wrong about. Provoking thought is good.
  - dekhn 5y ago
    Yes, Rogan was quite smart to get a real prescription and to get the actual human medical product. CNN (and other news agencies, and people on twitter) were outright foolish in attempting to make him look dumb (he won that round). I am quite irked at the people who thought the way to recommend not taking ivermectin is to shame people. That said if he is smart enough to anticipate what people are going to say and adjust his actions to negate them, you'd think he'd also be smart enough to see that there really isn't any strong evidence for ivermectin being useful, and it's also possible you can take the drug, have no positive or negative effects, and get better from COVID, even if ivermectin made no difference. From that perspective, thing he did that was bad was "not even being wrong" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong) in the sense that we can't say really much of anything about his experience representing a generally useful medical advice. Rogan is smarter than the average bear, but he's not in the club of the smartest bears.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    “This doctor was saying ivermectin is 99 percent effective in treating Covid, but you don’t hear about it because you can’t fund vaccines when it’s an effective treatment,” Actual quote. The guy spins it as "big pharma doesn't want you to know about this" so of course people are going off script. He's a dangerous moron.
    - rayiner 5y ago
      It’s a moronic comment, but equally moronic comments are made about “big pharma” all the time by a bunch of people. He sounds like every Bernie supporter.
      - micromacrofoot 5y ago
        He's a moron that sounds like other morons, got it.
- beeboop 5y ago
  Hyperbole like this doesn't help. I'm not an advocate of ivermectin because I have no idea what the science is behind it, but calling it horse dewormer is just disingenuous. This is like the leftist version of the right wing media calling Seattle's CHOP/CHAZ a war zone.
  - rpd9803 5y ago
    I mean, it's not hyperbolic, it's literally used to de-worm horses.
    - cronix 5y ago
      There are horse medicines with aspirin, too. Is aspirin now a horse medicine because it contains a common ingredient? Ivermectin is also literally used by millions of humans in countries all over the globe that have parasite problems, because it's an antiparasitic. My whole photo tour group was given Ivermectin when we went to Africa before covid was even a thing. > Ivermectin is an FDA approved drug for use in humans to treat a variety of parasitic infections including parasitic worms, hookworm and whipworm. It may also be used as an effective treatment for a wide range of other conditions and as a treatment of onchocerciasis, intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis or river blindness. https://www.drugs.com/ivermectin.html https://www.drugs.com/ivermectin.html
      - micromacrofoot 5y ago
        people are literally buying and taking horse de-wormer, this is well documented... the FDA had to put out multiple statements in an attempt to get people to stop taking animal medications instead of vaccines...
    - holbrad 5y ago
      I agree that hyperbolic isn't the right word, but do you really think people who call it horse de-wormer* are really being genuine. *(Outside the context of literally treating horses)
    - dekhn 5y ago
drcongo 5y ago
> One that lacks substance and likely couldn't actually be proven as stated https://twitter.com/joerogan/status/6907616035?s=20 https://twitter.com/joerogan/status/6907616035?s=20
- drcongo 5y ago
  Looks like the Rogan apologists have a similar relationship with proof as the man himself. Suddenly they're all quiet.
  - cronix 5y ago
    Because Joe was commenting on the HuffPost article that was linked in his tweet? I missed where he was actually giving advice? Commenting on something you read is not "giving advice," generally.
  - holbrad 5y ago
    "apologists" as if there's anything to apologise for. You can disagree with that tweet and still be for open discussion and against censorship. Also that tweet is very old, people do change there mind. (Not that I'm a fan of Joe Rogan, or know if he still holds that belief)
- dekhn 5y ago
  One thing to note is that court decisions are not required to be scientifically valid. For example, a court could find a company liable for damages, even if the plaintiff lacked any scientific evidence (or lacked evidence surpassing a reasonable doubt, or whichever standard applied in that case). That doesn't "prove" anything in a scientific sense. Further, the case found that vaccine's dont cause autism, the opposite of what rogan said. Also, the rogan tweet links to an article written by Robert F Kennedy Jr, a well-known anti-vaxxer who recently had to apologize for saving covid vaccines were like nazis.

by cronix 5y ago

micromacrofoot 5y ago

This is the same kind of rhetoric Rogan uses to say nothing and make it sound like it's a worthwhile opinion. Yeah, taking ivermectin to treat covid despite doctor's advice is objectively dangerous... people have actually died trying to take horse de-wormer. Rogan still spreads this nonsense. You're appreciative of Joe having Jordan Peterson on to ramble about things like "climate doesn't exist"? In the same episode Rogan says it's "weird" to call black people black because they're not dark enough to be considered black technically. You feel like you've gained something from this exchange?

cronix 5y ago
> despite doctor's advice Despite some doctor's advice.... Joe's doctor prescribed him human grade ivermectin, not "horse dewormer." HIS doctor. So HIS doctors advice was to take it, along with monoclonal antibodies, along with vitamins, and other things. He listened to HIS doctor, and recovered, and then told people what HE did. So it's Joe's fault some idiots took horse dewormer after he never mentioned those words? Please show where Joe, actually Joe and not a report of it, once recommended anyone take "horse dewormer" using those words. That was CNN's specific framing and where those words first showed up. They used those words, Joe didn't. Are you aware of that? The first time "horse dewormer" came out of Joe's mouth was in response to CNN's publicly false characterization of what he said. Haven't heard Jordan's interview yet, but thanks for the heads up. I'm sure there will be something in the 4+ hour interview that I will gain, or will provoke thought, or cause me to go look something up, and some things I don't agree with or learn I was wrong about. Provoking thought is good.
- dekhn 5y ago
  Yes, Rogan was quite smart to get a real prescription and to get the actual human medical product. CNN (and other news agencies, and people on twitter) were outright foolish in attempting to make him look dumb (he won that round). I am quite irked at the people who thought the way to recommend not taking ivermectin is to shame people. That said if he is smart enough to anticipate what people are going to say and adjust his actions to negate them, you'd think he'd also be smart enough to see that there really isn't any strong evidence for ivermectin being useful, and it's also possible you can take the drug, have no positive or negative effects, and get better from COVID, even if ivermectin made no difference. From that perspective, thing he did that was bad was "not even being wrong" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong) in the sense that we can't say really much of anything about his experience representing a generally useful medical advice. Rogan is smarter than the average bear, but he's not in the club of the smartest bears.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  “This doctor was saying ivermectin is 99 percent effective in treating Covid, but you don’t hear about it because you can’t fund vaccines when it’s an effective treatment,” Actual quote. The guy spins it as "big pharma doesn't want you to know about this" so of course people are going off script. He's a dangerous moron.
  - rayiner 5y ago
    It’s a moronic comment, but equally moronic comments are made about “big pharma” all the time by a bunch of people. He sounds like every Bernie supporter.
    - micromacrofoot 5y ago
      He's a moron that sounds like other morons, got it.
beeboop 5y ago
Hyperbole like this doesn't help. I'm not an advocate of ivermectin because I have no idea what the science is behind it, but calling it horse dewormer is just disingenuous. This is like the leftist version of the right wing media calling Seattle's CHOP/CHAZ a war zone.
- rpd9803 5y ago
  I mean, it's not hyperbolic, it's literally used to de-worm horses.
  - cronix 5y ago
    There are horse medicines with aspirin, too. Is aspirin now a horse medicine because it contains a common ingredient? Ivermectin is also literally used by millions of humans in countries all over the globe that have parasite problems, because it's an antiparasitic. My whole photo tour group was given Ivermectin when we went to Africa before covid was even a thing. > Ivermectin is an FDA approved drug for use in humans to treat a variety of parasitic infections including parasitic worms, hookworm and whipworm. It may also be used as an effective treatment for a wide range of other conditions and as a treatment of onchocerciasis, intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis or river blindness. https://www.drugs.com/ivermectin.html https://www.drugs.com/ivermectin.html
    - micromacrofoot 5y ago
      people are literally buying and taking horse de-wormer, this is well documented... the FDA had to put out multiple statements in an attempt to get people to stop taking animal medications instead of vaccines...
  - holbrad 5y ago
    I agree that hyperbolic isn't the right word, but do you really think people who call it horse de-wormer* are really being genuine. *(Outside the context of literally treating horses)
  - dekhn 5y ago

drcongo 5y ago

> One that lacks substance and likely couldn't actually be proven as stated https://twitter.com/joerogan/status/6907616035?s=20 https://twitter.com/joerogan/status/6907616035?s=20

drcongo 5y ago
Looks like the Rogan apologists have a similar relationship with proof as the man himself. Suddenly they're all quiet.
- cronix 5y ago
  Because Joe was commenting on the HuffPost article that was linked in his tweet? I missed where he was actually giving advice? Commenting on something you read is not "giving advice," generally.
- holbrad 5y ago
  "apologists" as if there's anything to apologise for. You can disagree with that tweet and still be for open discussion and against censorship. Also that tweet is very old, people do change there mind. (Not that I'm a fan of Joe Rogan, or know if he still holds that belief)
dekhn 5y ago
One thing to note is that court decisions are not required to be scientifically valid. For example, a court could find a company liable for damages, even if the plaintiff lacked any scientific evidence (or lacked evidence surpassing a reasonable doubt, or whichever standard applied in that case). That doesn't "prove" anything in a scientific sense. Further, the case found that vaccine's dont cause autism, the opposite of what rogan said. Also, the rogan tweet links to an article written by Robert F Kennedy Jr, a well-known anti-vaxxer who recently had to apologize for saving covid vaccines were like nazis.