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Spotify sides with Joe Rogan, removes Neil Young’s music
- jet777 5y agoI use Spotify for music first and foremost, their music catalogue is already smaller than apples. I really hope this doesn't become a trend. I could care less about podcasts let alone THAT podcast. Also Spotify, where is airplay 2? where is hifi? Your data analytics are cool but your core product is starting to fall behind
- throwawayl44 5y agoThere's also Tidal and Bandcamp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_(service) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_(service) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandcamp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandcamp There's also Radio Paradise for music discovery. I love it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Paradise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Paradise
- hawkesnest 5y agoIs this at all surprising? Spotify paid a lot of money to have Rogan on their platform because he (supposedly) makes them more money. Young gave a request of the "choose-him-or-me" variety, and Spotify honored that request. I doubt Young's body of work really amounts to much money for Spotify. Did Young really think that Spotify would drop Rogan over him? Would he have preferred to keep the status quo? I believe Young got what he asked for and/or wanted. He's no longer on the same platform as Rogan. That's a win, right?
- footlose_3815 5y agoNeil will be the first of many to do it.
- stickfigure 5y agoDo you believe that for empirical reasons or ideological reasons? So far this appears to be false.
- zzzbra 5y agoI think they are just articulating NY's actual reasoning.
- redleader55 5y agoI have no idea how popular Neil Young is, but I can imagine this can boost his popularity which then he can cash in somehow.
- knaik94 5y agoI imagine leaving the most popular streaming platform is going to be hurt financially in the long run.
- snowwrestler 5y agoMaybe not; Spotify is famous for how little they pay artists for song plays. Most artists seem to think of it as a marketing channel like radio, not a revenue source.
- cronix 5y ago> Spotify is famous for how little they pay artists for song plays Maybe, but > 60% of Young's streaming revenue comes from Spotify meaning the move is likely to cost him and his record label, Warner Bros[1] So what "little" they paid him was still the majority of what he was making. And I think it will be hard for someone from his genre (1960's/70's) to make a come back. Most people under 35ish-40 have never heard of him and likely won't listen due to the genre. [1] https://www.euronews.com/culture/2022/01/27/spotify-grants-neil-young-s-request-to-remove-music-in-conspiracy-theory-row https://www.euronews.com/culture/2022/01/27/spotify-grants-n...
- rpd9803 5y agoLOL Do you really think musicians make most of the money they make from streaming? Dude could have 1 concert a year and pull in more than his streaming would in a decade. Not to mention merch, commercial licensing.. etc.. LOL
- cronix 5y ago> So what "little" they paid him was still the majority of what he was making streaming There, I fixed it. LOL
- nsxwolf 5y agoI don't think he expected them to drop Rogan, I think he just did this out of principal, but it really ended up being embarrassing for him. It was an opportunity to hear a collective "Who?" out of the under-50 demographic, and reminded a lot of fans that they hadn't listened to him in many years. It came off like he was shouting his irrelevancy from the rooftops. I hope he gained some sense of satisfaction or peace from his, because he won't be gaining much else.
- NoLinkToMe 5y agoHad no clue who he was, but I commend him for this principled stance. How he'd have to be embarrassed for me not knowing who he is, I can't fathom. He also doesn't know who I am. I don't think he expected Spotify to cancel Rogan, I do think he expected to raise awareness of Rogan's dangerous and anti-scientific medical nonsense, and he quite succesfully did that, at his own expense. The embarrassment is with Spotify, who'd have very likely have cancelled Rogan right away had he been a nobody, an insignificant part of their business, spouting anti-scientific nonsense on their platform. Spotify chose the money. I'd probably have doen the same in Spotify's shoes, but they may at least be embarrassed about it, and Niel Young certainly doesn't. It was a matter of principles that you're downplaying to it ostensibly being a matter of it being a popularity contest.
- nsxwolf 5y agoDon't forget what he's doing. He's not just refusing to listen to a podcast he doesn't like. He wants to take it away from the millions of people who enjoy listening to it. He wants tell other people they shouldn't be allowed to hear something. That's not commendable in my book.
- Jyaif 5y agoI think his idea is that if a few popular artists took a stand like him, Spotify would have to change their decision.
- rco8786 5y ago> Did Young really think that Spotify would drop Rogan over him? No, he's hoping that other artists will follow suit and that collectively they will choose the artists over Rogan. I don't see it happening, but open to being wrong.
- kenjackson 5y agoI'm not sure what a "win" in this case is, but it seems fair. I didn't genuinely get the impression that Young thought he'd push off Rogan, but rather really didn't want to be on the same platform as Rogan. I think he has that right, although I think most people raised in the social media era are more comfortable with sharing platforms with divergent views.
- rpd9803 5y ago'divergent views' is a very weasley way of saying 'intentional misinformation'
- factcheckdec 5y agoIsn't intentional misinformation a contradiction in terms? Perhaps you meant to say disinformation?
- ipspam 5y agoI don't see how Joe makes them money. My understanding is that the consumers he brings make them money, so maybe same thing. Either way, it's bad for the consumer. It's the people using Spotify themselves, and Joe Rogan for signing with them that made this potential censorship possible by allowing themselves to be walled off. Neil Young hasn't lost. He's kicked off the anti-free speech war on Podcasts. It's always been coming, the messaging has been clear: the far right operate with impunity and spread hate and disinformation on podcasts, and it's uncensorable. This has to change. Once the king goes, everyone is fair game. That's why they are after Joe, and it isn't going to stop. I highly doubt Joe doesn't end up back on an .RSS feed hosted by Gab servers before the end of the 2024 election.
- randlet 5y ago"Did Young really think that Spotify would drop Rogan over him?" I don't want to speak for Neil Young, but I imagine he knew for certain Spotify would choose Rogan. But there's no such thing as bad press right? He knew he could force them to publicly take a position and now here we are all talking about it. Mission accomplished by Young I'd say.
- pseudalopex 5y ago> Young gave a request of the "choose-him-or-me" variety Young's request was unconditional. "I want you to let Spotify know immediately TODAY that I want all my music off their platform." Probably he would reconsider if they dropped Rogan. Certainly he expected they wouldn't. He has fuck you money and a history of taking stands. All of us are talking about what he wanted people talking about. Surely he'd like if it started a movement. I think he got everything he expected though.
- kjsingh 5y agoIt's a win for Young too - Spotify complying to the request shows they lack a spine!
- stjohnswarts 5y agoI think it shows they do have a spine and won't comply with wokeism.
- Proven 5y ago
- basisword 5y agoLarge thread on this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30093354 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30093354
- micromacrofoot 5y agoNeil Young seems pretty on top of things, generally. You can buy any of his music DRM-free directly: https://store.neilyoungarchives.com/ https://store.neilyoungarchives.com/
- basisword 5y agoDidn't know about this! Very cool. Hi-res too.
- CountDrewku 5y agoOr you can just buy a record....
- micromacrofoot 5y agoHe sells those too.
- CountDrewku 5y agoYeah the point is if you want actual ownership of the music you buy then digital is not the way to go.
- smaccona 5y agoI can purchase audio files in 24-bit 192KHz with no DRM from his website. Although it's not a physical item like a CD, I can in practical terms do whatever I want with such a file once I've bought it, including burning it to a compact disc (or even Blu-Ray audio). In what sense is that worse than a purchase of a 16-bit 44.1 KHz CD?
- rpd9803 5y agoI mean, a DRM-free uncompressed file will be yours as long as you can back it up.. a CD will delaminate in a few decades, vinyl will warp, tapes demagnetize..
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- ipspam 5y agoThis has to be viewed in the broader context of the censorship wars, and it has to be understood that EVERY major distribution platform is now owned/controlled/censored EXCEPT podcasts. One of the only places in the world left that is mainstream and uncensored is audio podcasting. Joe Rogan is public enemy #1, not necessarily for his content, but because he represents the largest and last stumbling block to full censorship and control. When Joe falls, the precedent is set, and all the other players in the podcast sphere are wiped out and censored within a matter of weeks and months. You might say podcasts are uncensorable by nature, but that's just not true. They have been walled off and monetised, and that's a problem. Contractually and for owning your listeners. And even if someone wants to host a podcast oldschool, RSS style, that's not going to fly. Most hosting services and payment processors feel they have to the right to not host content they don't agree with. Ultimately Neil Young is just a loser pawn in a bigger game. A useful idiot if you will, because he will never live up to the standard he is advocating for if he lives another decade. But he gets what he wants: social justice points. I just hope the investors in his catalog sue him for lost profits. Anyway, make no mistake, this is the opening salvo, not game set match.
- beeboop 5y agoI think this this whole Spotify situation is pretty funny. We're seeing the great struggle between greed (they spent so much on Rogan) and wanting to exert control/protect a brand.
- CountDrewku 5y agoGood. Besides the obvious reason that Rogan draws far more money than washed up Neil, I'm sick of these authoritarians. If you disagree with people then state your opinion and factual objections. This idea that you should whine and cry until they get silenced is getting old. It's one of the most anti-American things I can think of. People are sick of it. Additionally, coming from a dude that based his entire career on singing about the atrocities of government overreach, mob mentality etc. it's pretty disgusting to see him go this direction. It makes me think he really had no fucking clue what he was singing about and was just doing it because it seemed cool at the time.
- chabes 5y agoAuthoritarians?
- CountDrewku 5y agoYep I know this might be hard to understand for people that have been brainwashed into this attitude in the last decade but trying to silence ideas you disagree with is an authoritarian stance. You are on the same wavelength as religious zealots that burn "evil" books when you do this.
- rpd9803 5y agolol /r/IAmVerySmart material here. WAKE UP SHEEPLE. LMAO he thinks he's smart.
- pwinnski 5y agoNeil Young stating that he doesn't want to participate in a platform that finances the spread of medical disinformation is... authoritarian? You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means.
- CountDrewku 5y agoNo, he stated he wants another individual removed from that service and then tried to force his authoritarian attitude by giving an ultimatum. You're negating a pretty important part here bud. Full Definition of authoritarian 1 : of, relating to, or favoring blind submission to authority Certainly seems to meet the definition to me. Are you sure you know what it means?
- rayiner 5y agoThe reaction to Rogan is like the religious right’s reaction to Howard Stern. If you don’t like it don’t listen to his show.
- NoLinkToMe 5y agoThere's 'don't like' and then there's 'dangerous anti-scientific medical advice'. Can you appreciate there's a difference?
- francisofascii 5y agoPretty sure some in the religious right considered Howard Stern dangerous in corrupting the youth or society. Really depends on how you define when speech becomes considered dangerous.
- johng 5y agoWhat dangerous, anti-scientific medical advice has Joe Rogan given?
- drcongo 5y agoI'll forgive you for being unable to use a search engine to find out because the results are now all about this spat, but for years he's been telling people that vaccines (pre-covid) cause autism, which anyone with half a brain (which disqualifies Rogan) knows is dangerous bullshit.
- micromacrofoot 5y agoAmateur ivermectin ingestion has directly caused people to die. Rogan's own words: “This doctor was saying ivermectin is 99 percent effective intreating Covid, but you don’t hear about it because you can’t fund vaccines when it’s an effective treatment,” This is objectively false.
- holbrad 5y agoIvermectin has widely been used in various countries. You can argue about the actual effectiveness, I think I remember a pre-print study being retracted. But talking about that doesn't seem to be anywhere near the scale of dangerous public menace and should be banned.
- 323 5y agoI wonder what would have happened if instead of Neil Young it was Dua Lipa.
- francisofascii 5y agoThis story makes me cringe. I hate this idea of saying I won't do business with you if you do business with this other entity. What if Neil Young was a much bigger profit source. Then Spotify would be in tough position.
- rpd9803 5y agoGood. That's the Market at Work™
- falcolas 5y agoProfit > all (of which morality and public good are members) This is the reward system we've set up for companies, and things along these lines will be the outcome as a result.
- holbrad 5y agoThis is actually a rare case where profits and the public good aligned. Spotify did the right thing, for potentially the wrong reasons (Profit)
- heavymark 5y agoOf course they choose to ignore misinformation over Neil Young. It's about who brings in the most money. Now if Taylor Swift, Adele and all the other big celebs follow suit that could pressure things, but think all those big names have too much too lose vs Neil Young, especially over such a devise topic where even if they 'won' and went back on Spotify they'd lose a lot of listeners in the long run and most young celebs aren't going to lay on the sword.
- stjohnswarts 5y agoThey did the right thing. Neil has every right to disagree and have his music pulled but spotify did the right thing by ignoring his boycott. There was plenty of room for both of them on spotify but NY chose his own path.
- skywal_l 5y agoAn interesting take on this subject: https://jacobinmag.com/2022/01/joe-rogan-podcast-covid-misinformation-cdc-media/ https://jacobinmag.com/2022/01/joe-rogan-podcast-covid-misin... Their take is that censoring Rogan is not the answer. Having a clear, science and common sense based communication free of political meddling is the answer.
- jayski 5y agoim amazed how many comments here mention theyve never heard Neil Young... Im not that old, and ive heard all his stuff.