5 ms·

"but whoever is on the "other side" is having the same conversation with their kids, and showing them tools and resources they've developed over the years to de

"but whoever is on the "other side" is having the same conversation with their kids, and showing them tools and resources they've developed over the years to decide what information to trust and, to the kid, it's just as convincing!!" I wish. And sometimes they do. But there are lots and lots of people who have various religious/ideological dogmas. They do not show their kid the scientific method - they preach their truth to them. Because they feel they are right.

mensetmanusman 5y ago
It has helped me to realize that most of politics is preference, and preference rarely need be informed by the scientific method, especially when most of our daily choices are preference based. E.g. who do I love, what should I wear/watch/eat, where should I spend my money, etc. Our culture has now taught a few generations that people get to decide their own truth, and they conflate preference for truth, and now we are witnessing what this means…
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  "E.g. who do I love, what should I wear/watch/eat, where should I spend my money, etc." Ok, my feelings of love are not guided by a scientific method (except analyzing and reflect on what I feel). But by deciding what to wear, eat, watch etc. I do apply the scientific method. Meaning I test out systematically, what works best for me. And I try to teach this to my children.
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    The scientific method applied to preferences is probably not the scientific method (in regards to control experiments (unless you have clones and access to the multi verse:)))
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      The very basic idea of the scientific method as I learned it, is: testing ideas by experiment. If it looks cold outside, but not too cold - I have the idea that a medium warm jacket of mine is enough. And then outside I see if it was adequate or not and next time under similar conditions I change accordingly, or go back to the house that instant. Sounds like common sense and it is. But not everyone is doing it. I seriously got shocked by people telling me, they walk in shoes hurting them, but they did so because of style. This sounds like insanity to me, even though I know in their specific setting it makes some sense - as style is important in their circles. But that just means those circles are far from science and rationality, if it leads to people wearing clothes not adequate for the weather and being cold and uncomfortable.
      - nradov 5y ago
        Actually, wanting to be comfortable all the time is irrational. You should intentionally make yourself uncomfortable occasionally in order to avoid becoming too "precious". Hypothermia is an old friend of mine. https://davidgoggins.com/book/ https://davidgoggins.com/book/
        hutzlibu 5y ago
        Sure, did I mention, that I like wintercamping and just done so recently? And people usually look at me strangely when I wear just a light jacket, when they look like Inuit. But I would never intentionally wear shoes that do not fit right. There is no benefit in that - but it rather can mess up your whole body.
      - mensetmanusman 5y ago
        “ I seriously got shocked by people telling me, they walk in shoes hurting them, but they did so because of style.” Determining what to optimize for is basically what preference is. Some prefer attractiveness and aesthetics over comfort, and in most cases there is no option that optimizes all variables due to complex cross talk… After you choose which subjective preference to optimize for, you can definitely employ the scientific method to try to parse that further, but that comes after the preference:)
tremon 5y ago
I don't think it's necessarily about them being right or wrong in the scientific sense. It's the communal disgrace that comes with having raised an apostate child. Being factually correct or incorrect is subordinate to communal standing.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

It has helped me to realize that most of politics is preference, and preference rarely need be informed by the scientific method, especially when most of our daily choices are preference based. E.g. who do I love, what should I wear/watch/eat, where should I spend my money, etc. Our culture has now taught a few generations that people get to decide their own truth, and they conflate preference for truth, and now we are witnessing what this means…

hutzlibu 5y ago
"E.g. who do I love, what should I wear/watch/eat, where should I spend my money, etc." Ok, my feelings of love are not guided by a scientific method (except analyzing and reflect on what I feel). But by deciding what to wear, eat, watch etc. I do apply the scientific method. Meaning I test out systematically, what works best for me. And I try to teach this to my children.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  The scientific method applied to preferences is probably not the scientific method (in regards to control experiments (unless you have clones and access to the multi verse:)))
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    The very basic idea of the scientific method as I learned it, is: testing ideas by experiment. If it looks cold outside, but not too cold - I have the idea that a medium warm jacket of mine is enough. And then outside I see if it was adequate or not and next time under similar conditions I change accordingly, or go back to the house that instant. Sounds like common sense and it is. But not everyone is doing it. I seriously got shocked by people telling me, they walk in shoes hurting them, but they did so because of style. This sounds like insanity to me, even though I know in their specific setting it makes some sense - as style is important in their circles. But that just means those circles are far from science and rationality, if it leads to people wearing clothes not adequate for the weather and being cold and uncomfortable.
    - nradov 5y ago
      Actually, wanting to be comfortable all the time is irrational. You should intentionally make yourself uncomfortable occasionally in order to avoid becoming too "precious". Hypothermia is an old friend of mine. https://davidgoggins.com/book/ https://davidgoggins.com/book/
      - hutzlibu 5y ago
        Sure, did I mention, that I like wintercamping and just done so recently? And people usually look at me strangely when I wear just a light jacket, when they look like Inuit. But I would never intentionally wear shoes that do not fit right. There is no benefit in that - but it rather can mess up your whole body.
    - mensetmanusman 5y ago
      “ I seriously got shocked by people telling me, they walk in shoes hurting them, but they did so because of style.” Determining what to optimize for is basically what preference is. Some prefer attractiveness and aesthetics over comfort, and in most cases there is no option that optimizes all variables due to complex cross talk… After you choose which subjective preference to optimize for, you can definitely employ the scientific method to try to parse that further, but that comes after the preference:)

tremon 5y ago

I don't think it's necessarily about them being right or wrong in the scientific sense. It's the communal disgrace that comes with having raised an apostate child. Being factually correct or incorrect is subordinate to communal standing.