11 ms·

The point is it's misleading to say "so our own adult lives can be saved" when that's not the main motivation for these policies. If the health system becomes

• notch656a 5y ago
  So you want "freedom fighter" (whatever you consider that to be) to sign their death warrant? How are you going to keep them out of the hospital? I'd happily sign a death warrant today if it means the end of this tired argument of people complaining that people seek healthcare when they are ill. >If the health system becomes incapacitated If the health care system isn't working, then we need to look at expanding healthcare; perhaps by eliminating a lot of the regulations that drag it down. You don't have the right to force someone to make sure there are beds at a hospital. I don't think the answer is compelling non-consensual activity in private business such as masks. ------------------ >It's not that they "seek healthcare". But that they expect to have critical resources like ICU beds available to them (and therefore, denied to others) so they can enjoy their "freedom" (to ignore common sense) -- that folks take issue with. You're seriously complaining that when someone seeks healthcare they are using a bed? You know how many people using beds are there for non-essential activities (motorcycling, roofing a non-essential shed, snake bite because they went hiking, whatever). Should we outlaw any non-essential activity that could send you to the ED? It's 'common sense' to me that my (almost) 2 year old's speech development will be harmed if she can't see me speak (and at least one initial study suggests that is correct), so I don't wear a mask anywhere when she's with me nor do I enter establishments that require me to. Maybe that makes me a 'freedom fighter' for my kid's development.
  • vanusa 5y ago
    we need to look at expanding healthcare; Not happening in the short term. complaining that people seek healthcare when they are ill. It's not that they "seek healthcare". But that they expect to have critical resources like ICU beds available to them (and therefore, denied to others) so they can enjoy their "freedom" (to ignore common sense) -- that folks take issue with.
    • spookthesunset 5y ago
      > Not happening in the short term. Why not? It's an emergency. It's completely possible to fix this short term in a way that lets us move on without all these socially toxic and corrosive restrictions. Probably would cost an order of magnitude less, even.
      • vanusa 5y ago
        It's completely possible to fix this short term That's not what people in healthcare say. But hey, you can say whatever you want.
        • notch656a 5y ago
          Because the front-line people in health care don't have the legislative or fiscal power to change the system they're working in. We need systematic update to healthcare system, not to blame the "people in healthcare" which are the least of all the problems.
          • spookthesunset 5y ago
            Naw. This is an emergency, right? You don't need any of that. You just need people that are trainable enough to handle covid surges. Medical students, nurses, hell maybe even veterinarians... use your creativity. If hospital capacity was an issue caused by covid surges, we'd have fixed it already.
            • notch656a 5y ago
              Letting people not normally licensed to expand their scope and authority to practice on humans is a regulatory and legislative challenge. Healthcare workers badly need cooperation of regulators, legislators, and fiscal stakeholders of the industry to un-fuck the industry. Also capital can be better directed towards results rather than bloated administrators in a less regulatory burdened market.
  • vanusa 5y ago
    You're seriously complaining that when someone seeks healthcare they are using a bed? No, not when they "seek healthcare". But when they go out and inevitably get themselves covid because they think they're making bold, individualist statement (as many of these people apparently do think) by not masking and not getting vaccinated.
  • drugstorecowboy 5y ago
    I think you are making an important point here that I would love somebody to answer. Why is covid different than riding a motorcycle? Nobody is required to ride a motorcycle. We know for a fact, it's more dangerous than driving a car as a mode of transport. It's a person needlessly putting themselves in danger purely for their own reasons. Why is there no talk of denying a hospital bed to them? The same applies to obesity and a 1000 other things.
    • vanusa 5y ago
      Why is covid different than riding a motorcycle? Would you agree with this analogy: "Going out into crowded public spaces unmasked and unvaccinated ... is not unlike riding a motorcycle without a helmet. And with a busted taillight and bad brakes too, because you're also putting other people at risk."
      • notch656a 5y ago
        The mask is like having disc brakes. No mask is like having drum breaks. Walking up to someone and coughing in their face is no brakes. You may be more likely to save a life with the disc brakes, but I admit I occasionally ride bikes with drum brakes instead. Being vaccinated is a strong tail light (having already had COVID before may be a strong tail light too). Being unvaccinated but never caught COVID is a legal but moderate tail light. Being deathly ill but sneezing on the produce is no tail light.
        • drugstorecowboy 5y ago
          Wonderful, so I take it you are advocating that anybody who drives a motorcycle with no tail light and drum brakes should be left to die outside the hospital if something happens? Would that be an accurate assessment of your position?
          • notch656a 5y ago
            Not at all.