5 ms·

So we sacrifice other lives (young children) so our own adult lives can perhaps be saved. The lives of their grandparents (and of older folks not related to us

by vanusa 5y ago

So we sacrifice other lives (young children) so our own adult lives can perhaps be saved. The lives of their grandparents (and of older folks not related to us), you mean. You know, the ones actually the most vulnerable to this epidemic. I agree that the choices are difficult, no matter what we do. But there's no need to distort the basic equation, and make this particular choice appear to be something plainly selfish (young and mid-life adults snubbing the kids to cover their own asses) when it plainly is not.

notch656a 5y ago
No I don't mean just our grandparents. I benefit way more from any reduction in exposure to covid than my kid does. The difference between a 2 year old and a mid 30s person is significant.
- vanusa 5y ago
  The point is it's misleading to say "so our own adult lives can be saved" when that's not the main motivation for these policies. If the health system becomes incapacitated, and we have to push people out of ICUs to make way for the "freedom fighter" who won't vaccinate (which is already happening in some areas), then everyone suffers -- not just "mid 30s adults".
  - notch656a 5y ago
    So you want "freedom fighter" (whatever you consider that to be) to sign their death warrant? How are you going to keep them out of the hospital? I'd happily sign a death warrant today if it means the end of this tired argument of people complaining that people seek healthcare when they are ill. >If the health system becomes incapacitated If the health care system isn't working, then we need to look at expanding healthcare; perhaps by eliminating a lot of the regulations that drag it down. You don't have the right to force someone to make sure there are beds at a hospital. I don't think the answer is compelling non-consensual activity in private business such as masks. ------------------ >It's not that they "seek healthcare". But that they expect to have critical resources like ICU beds available to them (and therefore, denied to others) so they can enjoy their "freedom" (to ignore common sense) -- that folks take issue with. You're seriously complaining that when someone seeks healthcare they are using a bed? You know how many people using beds are there for non-essential activities (motorcycling, roofing a non-essential shed, snake bite because they went hiking, whatever). Should we outlaw any non-essential activity that could send you to the ED? It's 'common sense' to me that my (almost) 2 year old's speech development will be harmed if she can't see me speak (and at least one initial study suggests that is correct), so I don't wear a mask anywhere when she's with me nor do I enter establishments that require me to. Maybe that makes me a 'freedom fighter' for my kid's development.
    - vanusa 5y ago
      we need to look at expanding healthcare; Not happening in the short term. complaining that people seek healthcare when they are ill. It's not that they "seek healthcare". But that they expect to have critical resources like ICU beds available to them (and therefore, denied to others) so they can enjoy their "freedom" (to ignore common sense) -- that folks take issue with.
      - spookthesunset 5y ago
        > Not happening in the short term. Why not? It's an emergency. It's completely possible to fix this short term in a way that lets us move on without all these socially toxic and corrosive restrictions. Probably would cost an order of magnitude less, even.
        vanusa 5y ago
        It's completely possible to fix this short term That's not what people in healthcare say. But hey, you can say whatever you want.
        notch656a 5y ago
        Because the front-line people in health care don't have the legislative or fiscal power to change the system they're working in. We need systematic update to healthcare system, not to blame the "people in healthcare" which are the least of all the problems.
        spookthesunset 5y ago
        Naw. This is an emergency, right? You don't need any of that. You just need people that are trainable enough to handle covid surges. Medical students, nurses, hell maybe even veterinarians... use your creativity. If hospital capacity was an issue caused by covid surges, we'd have fixed it already.

by vanusa 5y ago

notch656a 5y ago

No I don't mean just our grandparents. I benefit way more from any reduction in exposure to covid than my kid does. The difference between a 2 year old and a mid 30s person is significant.

vanusa 5y ago
The point is it's misleading to say "so our own adult lives can be saved" when that's not the main motivation for these policies. If the health system becomes incapacitated, and we have to push people out of ICUs to make way for the "freedom fighter" who won't vaccinate (which is already happening in some areas), then everyone suffers -- not just "mid 30s adults".
- notch656a 5y ago
  So you want "freedom fighter" (whatever you consider that to be) to sign their death warrant? How are you going to keep them out of the hospital? I'd happily sign a death warrant today if it means the end of this tired argument of people complaining that people seek healthcare when they are ill. >If the health system becomes incapacitated If the health care system isn't working, then we need to look at expanding healthcare; perhaps by eliminating a lot of the regulations that drag it down. You don't have the right to force someone to make sure there are beds at a hospital. I don't think the answer is compelling non-consensual activity in private business such as masks. ------------------ >It's not that they "seek healthcare". But that they expect to have critical resources like ICU beds available to them (and therefore, denied to others) so they can enjoy their "freedom" (to ignore common sense) -- that folks take issue with. You're seriously complaining that when someone seeks healthcare they are using a bed? You know how many people using beds are there for non-essential activities (motorcycling, roofing a non-essential shed, snake bite because they went hiking, whatever). Should we outlaw any non-essential activity that could send you to the ED? It's 'common sense' to me that my (almost) 2 year old's speech development will be harmed if she can't see me speak (and at least one initial study suggests that is correct), so I don't wear a mask anywhere when she's with me nor do I enter establishments that require me to. Maybe that makes me a 'freedom fighter' for my kid's development.
  - vanusa 5y ago
    we need to look at expanding healthcare; Not happening in the short term. complaining that people seek healthcare when they are ill. It's not that they "seek healthcare". But that they expect to have critical resources like ICU beds available to them (and therefore, denied to others) so they can enjoy their "freedom" (to ignore common sense) -- that folks take issue with.
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      > Not happening in the short term. Why not? It's an emergency. It's completely possible to fix this short term in a way that lets us move on without all these socially toxic and corrosive restrictions. Probably would cost an order of magnitude less, even.
      - vanusa 5y ago
        It's completely possible to fix this short term That's not what people in healthcare say. But hey, you can say whatever you want.
        notch656a 5y ago
        Because the front-line people in health care don't have the legislative or fiscal power to change the system they're working in. We need systematic update to healthcare system, not to blame the "people in healthcare" which are the least of all the problems.
        spookthesunset 5y ago
        Naw. This is an emergency, right? You don't need any of that. You just need people that are trainable enough to handle covid surges. Medical students, nurses, hell maybe even veterinarians... use your creativity. If hospital capacity was an issue caused by covid surges, we'd have fixed it already.