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Smokers, obese people and metabolic diseases are not filling up hospitales at the unsustainable rate unvaxxed people are; and none of those can be quickly fixed

Smokers, obese people and metabolic diseases are not filling up hospitales at the unsustainable rate unvaxxed people are; and none of those can be quickly fixed with a pinch in the arm, not even nicotine addiction.

lliamander 5y ago
And most of the people (vaxxed or not) who need critical care with COVID have those pre-existing conditions.
rglullis 5y ago
Yeah, at this time of the year they are being filled by all types of seasonal respiratory diseases, like it happened for most years in recent times, even before Covid. The flu shot is widely available and recommended for most over-55 (I think?), but you don't hear anyone claiming that it should become mandatory.
- mattigames 5y ago
  So let me get this straight, what you are asking is why not add one more huge problem to an already near-collapse system because there are already huge similar issues that caused it to be in that state?
  - rglullis 5y ago
    What I am saying is that we have for two years already heard that the restrictions and mandates were to avoid overloading a then-unprepared-and-taken-by-surprise health system, but the US still can't even have large-scale availability of rapid tests. I am also saying that if problem of the health system is lack of personnel, then firing healthcare workers who refuse the vaccine (even after being infected) is counter-productive and can only be seen as a bone-headed political move. But most of all what I am saying is that we should not accept the policy theater. Making this about vaxxed vs unvaxxed is just yet-another way for governments (worldwide) to hide their ineptitude. It's been two years already. Countries in Europe with comparable levels of vaccination to the US are already treating Covid as "just a endemic, seasonal respiratory disease". Yet the US still wants to pretend that things just don't get solved because of rednecks and "problematic people" that need to submit to the will of the elite.
    - mattigames 5y ago
      So vaccines are "the will of the elite"? I can't wait until this guy finds out most vaccines are mandatory to enter the public education system and has been that way in most countries for decades, even in red states like Texas.
      - rglullis 5y ago
        Don't be stupid. It is not the vaccination, per se[*]. It is the political maneuvering and using the unvaxxed as a cover for their failures, this perpetual "if only they did what we are asking of them", etc. The will of the elite is that we accept this perpetual terror until we give them carte blanche for them to do whatever "Big Reset" they want. In Germany we are testing our kids twice a week at a minimum, and everyday when/if a positive test is found in the school. Case numbers are high, measures are in place, but people are mostly living their lives without waiting for Mary from Bumfuck Alabama to get her shot. Why is it so hard for the US to drop the empty pointless rhetoric and get their shit together? [*]If it helps you, I am not against the vaccines. I got mine, boosters and all. What I am against is the policy theater. What I am against is schools being closed and causing a lot more long-term harm to kids than the potential risks of them getting covid. What I am against is firing health care workers for political reasons while claiming that the system will collapse unless everyone complies.
        mattigames 5y ago
        I actually think children are much better off with what you call "long-term damage", this generation will now be way more likely to be ready for the next pandemic which is _not_ a question of if but _when_, with this first-hand experience hopefully they will avoid many of those failures you complain about (when many of the reach political positions in their adulthood); and is not like they are getting anywhere near serious long-term damage like during the black plague when most children saw half of their family die and there was no internet, or electricity or any of the niceties they now enjoy.
        rglullis 5y ago
- bsder 5y ago
  Actually, that's not true. We have some hypotheses that children are the flu reservoir and that if we required them to get an annual shot it would tamp down flu seasons. The primary difference is that the flu vaccine is predictive and can miss. It's kind of hard to demand that people take something that may not work. If we got something genuinely terrible like Spanish Flu, yes, everybody would be demanding that people get a flu shot.
akomtu 5y ago
Actually, they do. It's not the young unvaxxed athletes who end up in ICUs, it's those people with obesity and other comorbidities who fill up hospitals.
- mattigames 5y ago
  You are being pedantic, in this context I obviously meant vaxxed smokers, vaxxed obese people, et al.
Melatonic 5y ago
Well that is not true actually - they likely are filling up hospitals quite a bit. The big difference is that smoking, metabolic diseases, car accidents, etc etc are all relatively PREDICTABLE diseases year to year. Our medical system then sizes to be able to deal with these predictable rates of disease.
ipaddr 5y ago
Unvaxxed are not filling up the hospitals at a higher rate than vaxed now. The two doses you got in the summer doesn't work anymore.

lliamander 5y ago

And most of the people (vaxxed or not) who need critical care with COVID have those pre-existing conditions.

rglullis 5y ago

Yeah, at this time of the year they are being filled by all types of seasonal respiratory diseases, like it happened for most years in recent times, even before Covid. The flu shot is widely available and recommended for most over-55 (I think?), but you don't hear anyone claiming that it should become mandatory.

mattigames 5y ago
So let me get this straight, what you are asking is why not add one more huge problem to an already near-collapse system because there are already huge similar issues that caused it to be in that state?
- rglullis 5y ago
  What I am saying is that we have for two years already heard that the restrictions and mandates were to avoid overloading a then-unprepared-and-taken-by-surprise health system, but the US still can't even have large-scale availability of rapid tests. I am also saying that if problem of the health system is lack of personnel, then firing healthcare workers who refuse the vaccine (even after being infected) is counter-productive and can only be seen as a bone-headed political move. But most of all what I am saying is that we should not accept the policy theater. Making this about vaxxed vs unvaxxed is just yet-another way for governments (worldwide) to hide their ineptitude. It's been two years already. Countries in Europe with comparable levels of vaccination to the US are already treating Covid as "just a endemic, seasonal respiratory disease". Yet the US still wants to pretend that things just don't get solved because of rednecks and "problematic people" that need to submit to the will of the elite.
  - mattigames 5y ago
    So vaccines are "the will of the elite"? I can't wait until this guy finds out most vaccines are mandatory to enter the public education system and has been that way in most countries for decades, even in red states like Texas.
    - rglullis 5y ago
      Don't be stupid. It is not the vaccination, per se[*]. It is the political maneuvering and using the unvaxxed as a cover for their failures, this perpetual "if only they did what we are asking of them", etc. The will of the elite is that we accept this perpetual terror until we give them carte blanche for them to do whatever "Big Reset" they want. In Germany we are testing our kids twice a week at a minimum, and everyday when/if a positive test is found in the school. Case numbers are high, measures are in place, but people are mostly living their lives without waiting for Mary from Bumfuck Alabama to get her shot. Why is it so hard for the US to drop the empty pointless rhetoric and get their shit together? [*]If it helps you, I am not against the vaccines. I got mine, boosters and all. What I am against is the policy theater. What I am against is schools being closed and causing a lot more long-term harm to kids than the potential risks of them getting covid. What I am against is firing health care workers for political reasons while claiming that the system will collapse unless everyone complies.
      - mattigames 5y ago
        I actually think children are much better off with what you call "long-term damage", this generation will now be way more likely to be ready for the next pandemic which is _not_ a question of if but _when_, with this first-hand experience hopefully they will avoid many of those failures you complain about (when many of the reach political positions in their adulthood); and is not like they are getting anywhere near serious long-term damage like during the black plague when most children saw half of their family die and there was no internet, or electricity or any of the niceties they now enjoy.
        rglullis 5y ago
bsder 5y ago
Actually, that's not true. We have some hypotheses that children are the flu reservoir and that if we required them to get an annual shot it would tamp down flu seasons. The primary difference is that the flu vaccine is predictive and can miss. It's kind of hard to demand that people take something that may not work. If we got something genuinely terrible like Spanish Flu, yes, everybody would be demanding that people get a flu shot.

akomtu 5y ago

Actually, they do. It's not the young unvaxxed athletes who end up in ICUs, it's those people with obesity and other comorbidities who fill up hospitals.

mattigames 5y ago
You are being pedantic, in this context I obviously meant vaxxed smokers, vaxxed obese people, et al.

Melatonic 5y ago

Well that is not true actually - they likely are filling up hospitals quite a bit. The big difference is that smoking, metabolic diseases, car accidents, etc etc are all relatively PREDICTABLE diseases year to year. Our medical system then sizes to be able to deal with these predictable rates of disease.

ipaddr 5y ago

Unvaxxed are not filling up the hospitals at a higher rate than vaxed now. The two doses you got in the summer doesn't work anymore.