6 ms·

Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. This affects non covid patients too. I susp

Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. This affects non covid patients too. I suspect that's why the media doesn't do it.

Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Recognizing that naturally acquired immunity exists for tens of millions isn't the same thing as encouraging people to intentionally catch covid to gain natural immunity. Failure to differentiate between the two is just another way the injection maximalists look out of touch or unempathetic.
smnrchrds 5y ago
That's also why many governments do not accept proof of recovery in lieu of proof of vaccination. Those who do have vaccine-skeptic people catching the virus intentionally and risking death. https://globalnews.ca/news/8524409/hana-horka-czech-singer-covid-death/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8524409/hana-horka-czech-singer-c...
- walterbell 5y ago
  Let's remember that the best case for vaccinated people is Covid recovery. Wilful ignorance of the best case would be unwise. https://cbs12.com/news/local/new-covid-variant-detected-in-at-least-40-different-countries https://cbs12.com/news/local/new-covid-variant-detected-in-a... > "Omicron is acting like a super booster," Unnasch said. "People who have gotten omicron are going to be really well protected against infection, not just disease moving forward, which is a really good sign."
  - smnrchrds 5y ago
    The best case is never catching COVID again. Even vaccinated people put themselves at risk (albeit less than non-vaccinated people) if they catch COVID intentionally. No one recommends just going out there and catching COVID. But when proof of vaccination systems allow for it, some people do it anyway and some of them die instead. Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/2557/ https://xkcd.com/2557/
    - walterbell 5y ago
      Not going to happen with a coronavirus, even with self-isolation forever.
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  Yes, yet another way the government is dishonestly manipulating people into a single course of action even when it is of little benefit to anyone other than those who mistake metrics for what the metrics were designed to manage. There appears to be no bottom to the depths of credibility destruction that the government will plunge in order to put compliance above all else.
- eggy 5y ago
  So there playing the I am ignoring it or lying about it for your benefit card like Fauci about masks early on? It was a while ago that the CDC estimated recovered COVID numbers to bre around 146 million. It is more like over 200 million at this point with overlap of vaccinated people. I am sick of being ignored of having recovered, and people making the excuse that if they let us know how good natural immunity is, or even talk about it, the idiots will go out and get COVID. I don't want a nanny state, or police state for that matter. The WHO and a lot of the world are at odds with the CDC especially on masking and boosting of under 12 year-olds. Besides boosting one after the other may be weakening the immune system [1]. It makes sense. It raises antibodies, but wanes quickly. Natural immunity lives in B- and T-cell long-term memory of the immune system. SARS-COV1 recovered are still testing strong for immunity for over 18 years now. I am getting repetitive, but let's address obesity, diabetes, poor lifestyle choices, and their kind before mandating anyone's personal health choices or shaming them for their decisions. If I call out obesity it is fat shaming..., but go ahead and lump the recovered in with the unvaccinated and try and shame and steer the course of our lives with mandates and policing. [1] https://newsrescue.com/covid-boosters-could-weaken-immune-system-eu-regulators-warn/ https://newsrescue.com/covid-boosters-could-weaken-immune-sy...
  - mulletbum 5y ago
  - Daishiman 5y ago
    The difference is that I can't catch diabetes or obesity from others.
    - eggy 5y ago
      No, those are self-inflicted, and you can take action to rid yourself of them or minimize their effects. Self empowerment. And since I first posted the CDC released a study that shows natural immunity is better than vaccination. Not surprised since vaccination went from 95% efficacy, and you will not catch or transmit COVID (very early on); to well, it's like 78% effective after a few months, and you can catch a mild case of COVID; to it drops below 50% after 3 to 5 months (vaccines cannot be FDA approved if they show less than 50% effectiveness), and you will need a booster, and you can be infected and infect others. And we can debate mask-wearing, but there are no substantive studies on the issue, and if naturally immune and the vaccinated are protected (probably greater than 90% of the population by now), why masks? Not to even drag in having all of our children masked 8 hours/day, while the rest of us are able to limit our mask-wearing even though 12 and under are the least at risk for anything serious from COVID.
ifyoubuildit 5y ago
This response is actually an example of what I'm talking about. The comment that I replied to was explaining how the segment of the population that is a candidate for giving themselves covid while being high risk is (and has been) shrinking out of existence. Meanwhile, there is a much larger (and growing) cohort that continues to be harrased if they (fairly) decide they don't need these vaccines, and the harrasment is justified by claims like yours. Even the CDC has finally come around and published data along these lines (despite numerous studies suggesting the same starting from early last year). But after bullshitting people for so long, I guess we just have to expect there will be a ton of inertia behind the idea that every human needs these vaccines, no matter what.
- srcreigh 5y ago
  Why doesn't someone make the point that 95%+ (or 98%+ etc) of Americans are protected via natural immunity or vaccines and back it up with data? Once that point is made, the discouraging natural immunity argument can stop because hospitals can't overfill anymore. However until that point can be made[0] I think the "don't encourage natural immunity" position will prevent the most deaths. By the way, I also don't condone harassment of unvaccinated people or vaccination as a requirement for employment etc either. Those are separate issues to me. [0]: I tried looking for it but CDC data is only sept 2021 and estimated only 146M infections https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html#est-infections https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...
  - ifyoubuildit 5y ago
    I attempted to make an argument like that 2 weeks ago. I was using an estimate of 120m instead of the 146 that you quoted. And I'm just a dummy on the internet, so I'm probably at least a little wrong. But the gist was that if you could jab everyone tomorrow (which you can't), you might get a little bit of a benefit in the stats, but politically you'd be dead https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29914681 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29914681 There's no reason hospitals can't still fill up anyway if you have enough volume. EDIT: I should mention that I really appreciate what you said above: > By the way, I also don't condone harassment of unvaccinated people or vaccination as a requirement for employment etc either. Those are separate issues to me.
loudtieblahblah 5y ago
Yeah all those Oklahoma gunshot victims can't be seen by the ER. https://taibbi.substack.com/p/moral-majority-media-strikes-again-cd2 https://taibbi.substack.com/p/moral-majority-media-strikes-a...
spookthesunset 5y ago
> Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. This affects non covid patients too. So uh, what is that.... 0.01% of the entire population? Less? Yes, some people will cheat the system but people cheat all systems all the time. That's just life. Most people will do the right thing. We cannot build a society around 0.01% of us who cheat.
propogandist 5y ago
>Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. there's no interest in talking about actual treatments or a $1 early treatment remedy [1], like every other disease. There's nothing that's patentable and profitable, so the focus is on vaccinations, which increasingly show more infections The US DoD maintains detailed military personnel data to protect national security. Their health care surveillance data shows everything from neurological issues impacting US airforce pilots to 300% increase in miscarriages and cancer. The data is being scrubbed and military whistleblowers are trying to fight to bring it to public attention. It's like Snowden, but from the healthcare department of the US military. [2] 1 - https://c19early.com https://c19early.com -- w/ peer reviewed data sources 2-https://twitter.com/TheChiefNerd/status/1485695818996854788 https://twitter.com/TheChiefNerd/status/1485695818996854788
- walterbell 5y ago
  Thank you for posting.

Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. This affects non covid patients too. I suspect that's why the media doesn't do it.

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

Recognizing that naturally acquired immunity exists for tens of millions isn't the same thing as encouraging people to intentionally catch covid to gain natural immunity. Failure to differentiate between the two is just another way the injection maximalists look out of touch or unempathetic.

smnrchrds 5y ago

That's also why many governments do not accept proof of recovery in lieu of proof of vaccination. Those who do have vaccine-skeptic people catching the virus intentionally and risking death. https://globalnews.ca/news/8524409/hana-horka-czech-singer-covid-death/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8524409/hana-horka-czech-singer-c...

walterbell 5y ago
Let's remember that the best case for vaccinated people is Covid recovery. Wilful ignorance of the best case would be unwise. https://cbs12.com/news/local/new-covid-variant-detected-in-at-least-40-different-countries https://cbs12.com/news/local/new-covid-variant-detected-in-a... > "Omicron is acting like a super booster," Unnasch said. "People who have gotten omicron are going to be really well protected against infection, not just disease moving forward, which is a really good sign."
- smnrchrds 5y ago
  The best case is never catching COVID again. Even vaccinated people put themselves at risk (albeit less than non-vaccinated people) if they catch COVID intentionally. No one recommends just going out there and catching COVID. But when proof of vaccination systems allow for it, some people do it anyway and some of them die instead. Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/2557/ https://xkcd.com/2557/
  - walterbell 5y ago
    Not going to happen with a coronavirus, even with self-isolation forever.
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Yes, yet another way the government is dishonestly manipulating people into a single course of action even when it is of little benefit to anyone other than those who mistake metrics for what the metrics were designed to manage. There appears to be no bottom to the depths of credibility destruction that the government will plunge in order to put compliance above all else.
eggy 5y ago
So there playing the I am ignoring it or lying about it for your benefit card like Fauci about masks early on? It was a while ago that the CDC estimated recovered COVID numbers to bre around 146 million. It is more like over 200 million at this point with overlap of vaccinated people. I am sick of being ignored of having recovered, and people making the excuse that if they let us know how good natural immunity is, or even talk about it, the idiots will go out and get COVID. I don't want a nanny state, or police state for that matter. The WHO and a lot of the world are at odds with the CDC especially on masking and boosting of under 12 year-olds. Besides boosting one after the other may be weakening the immune system [1]. It makes sense. It raises antibodies, but wanes quickly. Natural immunity lives in B- and T-cell long-term memory of the immune system. SARS-COV1 recovered are still testing strong for immunity for over 18 years now. I am getting repetitive, but let's address obesity, diabetes, poor lifestyle choices, and their kind before mandating anyone's personal health choices or shaming them for their decisions. If I call out obesity it is fat shaming..., but go ahead and lump the recovered in with the unvaccinated and try and shame and steer the course of our lives with mandates and policing. [1] https://newsrescue.com/covid-boosters-could-weaken-immune-system-eu-regulators-warn/ https://newsrescue.com/covid-boosters-could-weaken-immune-sy...
- mulletbum 5y ago
- Daishiman 5y ago
  The difference is that I can't catch diabetes or obesity from others.
  - eggy 5y ago
    No, those are self-inflicted, and you can take action to rid yourself of them or minimize their effects. Self empowerment. And since I first posted the CDC released a study that shows natural immunity is better than vaccination. Not surprised since vaccination went from 95% efficacy, and you will not catch or transmit COVID (very early on); to well, it's like 78% effective after a few months, and you can catch a mild case of COVID; to it drops below 50% after 3 to 5 months (vaccines cannot be FDA approved if they show less than 50% effectiveness), and you will need a booster, and you can be infected and infect others. And we can debate mask-wearing, but there are no substantive studies on the issue, and if naturally immune and the vaccinated are protected (probably greater than 90% of the population by now), why masks? Not to even drag in having all of our children masked 8 hours/day, while the rest of us are able to limit our mask-wearing even though 12 and under are the least at risk for anything serious from COVID.

ifyoubuildit 5y ago

This response is actually an example of what I'm talking about. The comment that I replied to was explaining how the segment of the population that is a candidate for giving themselves covid while being high risk is (and has been) shrinking out of existence. Meanwhile, there is a much larger (and growing) cohort that continues to be harrased if they (fairly) decide they don't need these vaccines, and the harrasment is justified by claims like yours. Even the CDC has finally come around and published data along these lines (despite numerous studies suggesting the same starting from early last year). But after bullshitting people for so long, I guess we just have to expect there will be a ton of inertia behind the idea that every human needs these vaccines, no matter what.

srcreigh 5y ago
Why doesn't someone make the point that 95%+ (or 98%+ etc) of Americans are protected via natural immunity or vaccines and back it up with data? Once that point is made, the discouraging natural immunity argument can stop because hospitals can't overfill anymore. However until that point can be made[0] I think the "don't encourage natural immunity" position will prevent the most deaths. By the way, I also don't condone harassment of unvaccinated people or vaccination as a requirement for employment etc either. Those are separate issues to me. [0]: I tried looking for it but CDC data is only sept 2021 and estimated only 146M infections https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html#est-infections https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...
- ifyoubuildit 5y ago
  I attempted to make an argument like that 2 weeks ago. I was using an estimate of 120m instead of the 146 that you quoted. And I'm just a dummy on the internet, so I'm probably at least a little wrong. But the gist was that if you could jab everyone tomorrow (which you can't), you might get a little bit of a benefit in the stats, but politically you'd be dead https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29914681 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29914681 There's no reason hospitals can't still fill up anyway if you have enough volume. EDIT: I should mention that I really appreciate what you said above: > By the way, I also don't condone harassment of unvaccinated people or vaccination as a requirement for employment etc either. Those are separate issues to me.

loudtieblahblah 5y ago

Yeah all those Oklahoma gunshot victims can't be seen by the ER. https://taibbi.substack.com/p/moral-majority-media-strikes-again-cd2 https://taibbi.substack.com/p/moral-majority-media-strikes-a...

spookthesunset 5y ago

> Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. This affects non covid patients too. So uh, what is that.... 0.01% of the entire population? Less? Yes, some people will cheat the system but people cheat all systems all the time. That's just life. Most people will do the right thing. We cannot build a society around 0.01% of us who cheat.

propogandist 5y ago

>Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. there's no interest in talking about actual treatments or a $1 early treatment remedy [1], like every other disease. There's nothing that's patentable and profitable, so the focus is on vaccinations, which increasingly show more infections The US DoD maintains detailed military personnel data to protect national security. Their health care surveillance data shows everything from neurological issues impacting US airforce pilots to 300% increase in miscarriages and cancer. The data is being scrubbed and military whistleblowers are trying to fight to bring it to public attention. It's like Snowden, but from the healthcare department of the US military. [2] 1 - https://c19early.com https://c19early.com -- w/ peer reviewed data sources 2-https://twitter.com/TheChiefNerd/status/1485695818996854788 https://twitter.com/TheChiefNerd/status/1485695818996854788

walterbell 5y ago
Thank you for posting.