5 ms·

Is it really a public health nightmare? What data is there to show that vaccine passports are effective at reducing spread or hospitalizations?

listless 5y ago
What data is there to show that vaccines reduce the spread? Hospitalization, yes. Spread? Not anymore!
- errcorrectcode 5y ago
  Unpopular observation: if an ebola-deadly, vaccine-effective variant comes along, it would hopefully wipe out enough of those who are too dumb to take care of themselves or impetuously refuse vaccines. Modern life and medicine is too safe to select for common sense or intelligence.
  - keneda7 5y ago
    Have you even considered that this is what many people who have not taken the vaccine are waiting for? They are going to go get the vaccine when this deadly strains comes out. It is no secret MRNA vaccines do not last. It was known before COVID and no miraculous break through occurred that fixed this this issue they have. Previous MRNA vaccines applicants also showed you cannot just keep reinjecting yourself every x months. It causes a whole host of problem including weakening your immune system (EU recently rewarned about this for the Covid one). So its seems the people not vaccinated will have an option to actually get protected, not so much for those that have taken it already though.
    - errcorrectcode 5y ago
      > Previous MRNA [sic] vaccines applicants also showed you cannot just keep reinjecting yourself every x months. > So its seems the people not vaccinated will have an option to actually get protected, not so much for those that have taken it already though. This is utter hogwash horseshit. Let me guess. You watch InfoWars, OAN, and Fox News. You need some better "alternative facts" that include how long vaccines take to generate neutralizing antibodies and how long they last. * Instead, countries should leave more time between booster programs and tie them to the onset of the cold season in each hemisphere, following the blueprint set out by influenza vaccination strategies, the agency said.* https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-booster-shots-risk-overloading-immune-system-ema-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-bo... Maybe when you learn to read and quote things fairly, you won't look like such a dummy.
      - keneda7 5y ago
        Glad you have to resort to person attacks and then quote an article backing up my point you can't constantly be giving boosters out. I never said there wasn't a good strategy but rather than doing it x month was bad which in fact it is. You however had to make something up so you can launch your personal attack. Please review the guidelines and rules before you type more utter hogwash horseshit https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        errcorrectcode 5y ago
        Contribute value or leave. Have a nice day.
cute_boi 5y ago
Isn't that a common knowledge, assuming vaccination means less hospitalization. So, why do we even need data in such case? Vaccine passports somehow forces or incentivizes people to vaccinate more?
- torstenvl 5y ago
  No. Requiring vaccine passports or vaccine cards incentivizes people to get vaccine passports and/or vaccine cards, which is exactly what we're seeing. This is like counting lines of code or repo commits to see how productive a SWE is. If you want to incentivize X, you have to be very careful not to instead incentivize an imperfect proxy for X.
  - mathwords 5y ago
    Same with the tests. All it says is that the test said positive or negative. It in no way tells you anything about how bad your Covid is, how far along it is, and if you can spread it to others. The tests are a last minute cash grab. Stop getting tested and this thing ends. (However I know a bunch of folks who have to be tested anyway because they didn’t want to be boosted, despite getting the initial vax)
    - epakai 5y ago
      Absurd. "Stop going to the hospital and this thing ends" is on the same level. Cash flow has nothing to do with virus spread. It's interesting to consider misaligned incentives but you are alleging something much more serious without giving any credence to the actual purpose of testing.
      - hammock 5y ago
        >Cash flow has nothing to do with virus spread. Not wrong, however cash flow does have something to do with hospitalizations and covid death counts. Hospitals get subsidized for admitted covid patients and for covid deaths.
  - 5y ago
armagon 5y ago
Not just numbers, but numbers we can trust. I've been really impressed with how much data my province (Alberta) has made available, but now, I'm wondering. They recently had "technical difficulties", and the numbers changed from showing that double-vaxxed people were the most at-risk for omicron, to showing that unvaxxed people are. https://twitter.com/AB_CovidFacts/status/1486112498977685506 https://twitter.com/AB_CovidFacts/status/1486112498977685506 Also disturbing is that, if you get vaccinated and have issues within the first 14 days, they count you as being unvaccinated in all the reports: https://metatron.substack.com/p/alberta-just-inadvertently-confessed https://metatron.substack.com/p/alberta-just-inadvertently-c...
- mathwords 5y ago
  - dang 5y ago
    Could you please not create accounts to break HN's rules with? We ban those (I've banned this one), and it's not in your interests to do so. The only reason why HN is worth anything in the first place—and it must be worth something, or you wouldn't be here—is if it's interesting, and flamewar destroys interestingness.
- knownjorbist 5y ago
  Is there a reasonable explanation for the revised numbers without delving into conspiracies?
  - nonethewiser 5y ago
    >Is there a reasonable explanation for the revised numbers without delving into conspiracies? Why are you assuming these are mutually exclusive? Governments are famous for nothing if not conspiring.
codyb 5y ago
I for one really enjoy the vaccine mandate in NYC. I feel much more comfortable knowing that if I catch it going out (seems likely), I'll be unlikely to spread it to anyone unvaccinated causing serious disease. Of course I'm also boosted and got my flu shot (and do it every year), so I'm probably already more conscientious living in NYC than many. If someone uses a fake to get in... well... there's only so much I can do, but I discourage it for their own health and for the health of others around them. I flat out told my friend who did the same as such. I'm sure he'd get through it, but why get mega sick instead of getting the vaccine at this point?
- Axien 5y ago
  So someone else’s freedoms should be limited so you can feel “comfortable”?
  - codyb 5y ago
    Lol, yes. If people want to eat at restaurants unvaccinated in NYC they have a variety of options. They can eat outside in the stalls which often have heat and shields against the wind. They can order at home and eat with their friends who want to take that risk. Going to a concert so you can more likely catch and spread a highly infectious virus and become more sick and hospitalized isn't some constitutional right. And the value of not having people who'll willingly "limit someone else's freedoms" by spreading a virus they could be vaccinated against, well, at the end of the day, I'd rather "limit their freedoms" to use your term, then the person who didn't need to catch it anyways and is now sick or hospitalized. That sounds a lot more like "limited freedoms" than "Oh no, I can't see a play".
    - yanmaani 5y ago
      What about attending political protests?
    - jrs235 5y ago
      Why not allow businesses (and concerts and plays and etc.) to decide if they want to allow unvaccinated customers (or not)? That's their business. If you don't want to visit businesses (and concerts and plays and etc.) that allow unvaccinated customers then don't go to those businesses (and concerts and plays and etc.). That's your business.

listless 5y ago

What data is there to show that vaccines reduce the spread? Hospitalization, yes. Spread? Not anymore!

errcorrectcode 5y ago
Unpopular observation: if an ebola-deadly, vaccine-effective variant comes along, it would hopefully wipe out enough of those who are too dumb to take care of themselves or impetuously refuse vaccines. Modern life and medicine is too safe to select for common sense or intelligence.
- keneda7 5y ago
  Have you even considered that this is what many people who have not taken the vaccine are waiting for? They are going to go get the vaccine when this deadly strains comes out. It is no secret MRNA vaccines do not last. It was known before COVID and no miraculous break through occurred that fixed this this issue they have. Previous MRNA vaccines applicants also showed you cannot just keep reinjecting yourself every x months. It causes a whole host of problem including weakening your immune system (EU recently rewarned about this for the Covid one). So its seems the people not vaccinated will have an option to actually get protected, not so much for those that have taken it already though.
  - errcorrectcode 5y ago
    > Previous MRNA [sic] vaccines applicants also showed you cannot just keep reinjecting yourself every x months. > So its seems the people not vaccinated will have an option to actually get protected, not so much for those that have taken it already though. This is utter hogwash horseshit. Let me guess. You watch InfoWars, OAN, and Fox News. You need some better "alternative facts" that include how long vaccines take to generate neutralizing antibodies and how long they last. * Instead, countries should leave more time between booster programs and tie them to the onset of the cold season in each hemisphere, following the blueprint set out by influenza vaccination strategies, the agency said.* https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-booster-shots-risk-overloading-immune-system-ema-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-bo... Maybe when you learn to read and quote things fairly, you won't look like such a dummy.
    - keneda7 5y ago
      Glad you have to resort to person attacks and then quote an article backing up my point you can't constantly be giving boosters out. I never said there wasn't a good strategy but rather than doing it x month was bad which in fact it is. You however had to make something up so you can launch your personal attack. Please review the guidelines and rules before you type more utter hogwash horseshit https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - errcorrectcode 5y ago
        Contribute value or leave. Have a nice day.

cute_boi 5y ago

Isn't that a common knowledge, assuming vaccination means less hospitalization. So, why do we even need data in such case? Vaccine passports somehow forces or incentivizes people to vaccinate more?

torstenvl 5y ago
No. Requiring vaccine passports or vaccine cards incentivizes people to get vaccine passports and/or vaccine cards, which is exactly what we're seeing. This is like counting lines of code or repo commits to see how productive a SWE is. If you want to incentivize X, you have to be very careful not to instead incentivize an imperfect proxy for X.
- mathwords 5y ago
  Same with the tests. All it says is that the test said positive or negative. It in no way tells you anything about how bad your Covid is, how far along it is, and if you can spread it to others. The tests are a last minute cash grab. Stop getting tested and this thing ends. (However I know a bunch of folks who have to be tested anyway because they didn’t want to be boosted, despite getting the initial vax)
  - epakai 5y ago
    Absurd. "Stop going to the hospital and this thing ends" is on the same level. Cash flow has nothing to do with virus spread. It's interesting to consider misaligned incentives but you are alleging something much more serious without giving any credence to the actual purpose of testing.
    - hammock 5y ago
      >Cash flow has nothing to do with virus spread. Not wrong, however cash flow does have something to do with hospitalizations and covid death counts. Hospitals get subsidized for admitted covid patients and for covid deaths.
- 5y ago

armagon 5y ago

Not just numbers, but numbers we can trust. I've been really impressed with how much data my province (Alberta) has made available, but now, I'm wondering. They recently had "technical difficulties", and the numbers changed from showing that double-vaxxed people were the most at-risk for omicron, to showing that unvaxxed people are. https://twitter.com/AB_CovidFacts/status/1486112498977685506 https://twitter.com/AB_CovidFacts/status/1486112498977685506 Also disturbing is that, if you get vaccinated and have issues within the first 14 days, they count you as being unvaccinated in all the reports: https://metatron.substack.com/p/alberta-just-inadvertently-confessed https://metatron.substack.com/p/alberta-just-inadvertently-c...

mathwords 5y ago
- dang 5y ago
  Could you please not create accounts to break HN's rules with? We ban those (I've banned this one), and it's not in your interests to do so. The only reason why HN is worth anything in the first place—and it must be worth something, or you wouldn't be here—is if it's interesting, and flamewar destroys interestingness.
knownjorbist 5y ago
Is there a reasonable explanation for the revised numbers without delving into conspiracies?
- nonethewiser 5y ago
  >Is there a reasonable explanation for the revised numbers without delving into conspiracies? Why are you assuming these are mutually exclusive? Governments are famous for nothing if not conspiring.

codyb 5y ago

I for one really enjoy the vaccine mandate in NYC. I feel much more comfortable knowing that if I catch it going out (seems likely), I'll be unlikely to spread it to anyone unvaccinated causing serious disease. Of course I'm also boosted and got my flu shot (and do it every year), so I'm probably already more conscientious living in NYC than many. If someone uses a fake to get in... well... there's only so much I can do, but I discourage it for their own health and for the health of others around them. I flat out told my friend who did the same as such. I'm sure he'd get through it, but why get mega sick instead of getting the vaccine at this point?

Axien 5y ago
So someone else’s freedoms should be limited so you can feel “comfortable”?
- codyb 5y ago
  Lol, yes. If people want to eat at restaurants unvaccinated in NYC they have a variety of options. They can eat outside in the stalls which often have heat and shields against the wind. They can order at home and eat with their friends who want to take that risk. Going to a concert so you can more likely catch and spread a highly infectious virus and become more sick and hospitalized isn't some constitutional right. And the value of not having people who'll willingly "limit someone else's freedoms" by spreading a virus they could be vaccinated against, well, at the end of the day, I'd rather "limit their freedoms" to use your term, then the person who didn't need to catch it anyways and is now sick or hospitalized. That sounds a lot more like "limited freedoms" than "Oh no, I can't see a play".
  - yanmaani 5y ago
    What about attending political protests?
  - jrs235 5y ago
    Why not allow businesses (and concerts and plays and etc.) to decide if they want to allow unvaccinated customers (or not)? That's their business. If you don't want to visit businesses (and concerts and plays and etc.) that allow unvaccinated customers then don't go to those businesses (and concerts and plays and etc.). That's your business.