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Ukraine, on the other hand, claims Americans are safer in Kyiv than LA[1]. I don't know who is correct, but it does seem propaganda is flying in from multiple

by mc32 5y ago

Ukraine, on the other hand, claims Americans are safer in Kyiv than LA[1]. I don't know who is correct, but it does seem propaganda is flying in from multiple directions and it's hard to ascertain the ground truth. Given all the previous claims that turned out to be lies (WMD in Iraq, No bombing of the Syrian dam, etc.), it's hard to provide benefit of doubt. [1]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10436705/Americans-safer-Kyiv-LA-source-close-Zelensky-slams-Biden-evacuating-Ukraine.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10436705/Americans-...

Mikeb85 5y ago
American/Western propaganda is pretty funny to watch in action...
- mc32 5y ago
  Russia and China are very capable masters of misinformation -of that there is little doubt. On the other hand the career government officials and others in government have had their fill with misinformation about Covid origins, "Russia-gate", Syrian dam bombings, etc.
  - pyronik19 5y ago
    Add Iraq WMD, and any number of lies. Anyone who's not looking at this next gift to the MIC with some skepticism would be a fool.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Ukraine may be right... today. But tomorrow may be very different. And Ukraine may have their own bias here. They may figure that if there are a bunch of Americans in Ukraine, that may increase Putin's hesitation, or give the US more incentive to intervene. They're an asset that Ukraine may want to keep.
- bigodbiel 5y ago
  This is a very nice assessment. I interpreted it as preventing foreign capital flight and trying to calm public sentiment (eg preventing empty store shelves) But the “human shield” hypothesis is even more plausible!
rootsudo 5y ago
You can get shot in LA, and get shot in Kyiv. Seams to be a wash.
- Koshkin 5y ago
  You can get shot anywhere in the world. (And not, it's not a wash.)
8note 5y ago
The next most recent claim is that you should get out of Afghanistan. I'm not convinced that that was a lie based on the others being lies.
- mc32 5y ago
  Ironically there it was the other way around. While things were deteriorating very rapidly, the administration insisted it was very orderly and orchestrated pullout, among other misstatements such as ‘no Americans who want to leave we’re left behind.”
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
raxxorrax 5y ago
The Bush government at the time pressured that Ukraine and Georgia should be ascension candidates. It was an aggressive move by Nato towards Russia, I don't think that can be denied. Does that justify Russias response? Of course not, but to say this is one-sided aggression doesn't fit reality in my opinion. Biden does mirror the politics of Bush right now. I also think there is a lot of thirst for any conflict now that Afghanistan was lost. Giving the benefit of the doubt is useful, but you should also always check the claims.

by mc32 5y ago

Mikeb85 5y ago

American/Western propaganda is pretty funny to watch in action...

mc32 5y ago
Russia and China are very capable masters of misinformation -of that there is little doubt. On the other hand the career government officials and others in government have had their fill with misinformation about Covid origins, "Russia-gate", Syrian dam bombings, etc.
- pyronik19 5y ago
  Add Iraq WMD, and any number of lies. Anyone who's not looking at this next gift to the MIC with some skepticism would be a fool.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

Ukraine may be right... today. But tomorrow may be very different. And Ukraine may have their own bias here. They may figure that if there are a bunch of Americans in Ukraine, that may increase Putin's hesitation, or give the US more incentive to intervene. They're an asset that Ukraine may want to keep.

bigodbiel 5y ago
This is a very nice assessment. I interpreted it as preventing foreign capital flight and trying to calm public sentiment (eg preventing empty store shelves) But the “human shield” hypothesis is even more plausible!

rootsudo 5y ago

You can get shot in LA, and get shot in Kyiv. Seams to be a wash.

Koshkin 5y ago
You can get shot anywhere in the world. (And not, it's not a wash.)

8note 5y ago

The next most recent claim is that you should get out of Afghanistan. I'm not convinced that that was a lie based on the others being lies.

mc32 5y ago
Ironically there it was the other way around. While things were deteriorating very rapidly, the administration insisted it was very orderly and orchestrated pullout, among other misstatements such as ‘no Americans who want to leave we’re left behind.”

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

raxxorrax 5y ago

The Bush government at the time pressured that Ukraine and Georgia should be ascension candidates. It was an aggressive move by Nato towards Russia, I don't think that can be denied. Does that justify Russias response? Of course not, but to say this is one-sided aggression doesn't fit reality in my opinion. Biden does mirror the politics of Bush right now. I also think there is a lot of thirst for any conflict now that Afghanistan was lost. Giving the benefit of the doubt is useful, but you should also always check the claims.