4 ms·

I have a different conclusion. The article mentions that the car would have cost her 3 months of income. That doesn't sound too much and is roughly about the sa

by NoPie 5y ago

I have a different conclusion. The article mentions that the car would have cost her 3 months of income. That doesn't sound too much and is roughly about the same what people pay for cars today, maybe even more. The reason she thought about the car as a luxury and not a necessity is that then the society wasn't dependent on cars like we do today. They travelled less, worked closer to home, milkman brought milk to home and grocery shopping could be done closer to home as well.

throwawaygh 5y ago
> maybe even more Average new car sale price at the end of 2021: $47,077 Average monthly household income at the end of 2021: $5,307 Even highly paid FAANG engineers are probably spending a few months income on a new car.
- NoPie 5y ago
  Many people, maybe even majority, buy used cars which cost less. They are probably more reliable than new cars in 1919. I was probably biased because I recently bought a used car without getting a loan which cost me about 3 months of income. In any case, she actually had a nice income if should could have bought a new car with 3 month income only. She just didn't have a real need for it. The story should have been not so much about her but that most other people were much poorer than today and had to work as maids to survive.
- speby 5y ago
  Yes, that's true, but even cars are not the same as the model T or other cars available in 1919. Besides cars being relatively "new" to society at the time, they also lacked, well, everything on this list and then some: * No heater * No air conditioning/cooling * No radio/CD/Bluetooth/Carplay/Android Auto * No speakers, let alone not 6 or 8 speakers that some cars have * No heated and cooled seats * No power mirrors * No power seats * No power steering * No power brakes (!!) * No ABS brakes or traction control * No self-driving capabilities, blind spot detection, automatic lane change, "smart" cruise control or any cruise control at all * No rear defrost * Not even a dome light! * No power windows * No power locks * No all-wheel drive. In fact, it was mostly single-wheel drive! * No in-screen dash or touchscreen controls * No massage seats * No "slow close" doors * No door sill illumination * No turn signals (until later, that is)! * No seatbelts (or if there were, they crude early versions) * No meaningful safety mechanisms, like collapsible steering columns and automatic airbags, side impact airbags, and proper crumple/structure design * No in-car entertainment options for movies, etc. * No in-car navigation systems * No OBD diagnostics to let you know when you are running low on oil or other critical fluids We could keep going ... but on the one hand, cars might cost "similar" or even more in today's standards, but they also DO so much more. Even if you said, well let's build the same vehicles they had then today, you couldn't. Government regulations force things like safety mechanisms that will cost more to deliver a final product.
jseban 5y ago
That was my conclusion as well, everything was simply insanely cheap then compared to today. A car today cost much more than 3 months salary, and to rent such an apartment would be basically impossible. The rent was 12% of his income only. Which means a bachelor with a middle class job could easily rent an apartment with 4 bedrooms and 2 sitting rooms. LOL Everything was much much cheaper. Except exotic food groceries.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  > A car today cost much more than 3 months salary Depending on where you work, not that much more. But you don’t get to spend all of your gross salary on cars.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    I wonder how finance worked. Today a car might cost 3 months of salary, but I can get a loan to pay it off over 6 years. If I had to buy a new car without a loan I couldn't afford it because I don't normally keep that much savings. (Ignoring retirement savings which technically I could tap into)
    - virgilp 5y ago
      In Romania something like this happened with house prices. I bought my first flat just as credit was becoming available for the general population - it costed me 27k USD; at that time, it was customary that you'd pay in full for an apartment, people were actually looking suspicious at you for involving the bank! One colleague of mine wanted to keep saving and pay for an apartment in full; he didn't manage to, even though he was more senior (read: earned more money; also he lived alone, could save more than I could). What happened was that prices increased faster than his savings rate - effectively by waiting he lost money, and eventually gave up and took a credit. Now... there were multiple factors for the increases in the housing market, credit being available was not the only one, but I do believe it was one of the main drivers.
      - 5y ago
blutack 5y ago
She lived in central(ish) London, where today still a car isn't a necessity or particularly useful other than for travelling to the greater UK or specific jobs.
- NoPie 5y ago
  That's also true in many big cities (Singapore, New York). This article fails to consider this point of view that she really didn't need the car similarly to many people living in those places today. The fact that she could afford a maid and nurse, maybe was because she was wealthier than majority of population. If she was in 1% of income bracket (that would be $421,926 per year in the US), then it is not unusual for those people to hire cleaners or baby sitters on regular basis even if they don't employ them full time.
  - blutack 5y ago
    Ah yes, I think I was agreeing with you than not everywhere is dependent on cars even today, and many of my London based friends neither own cars or have licenses. I'm sure in her time if you lived outside the city a car would be higher up the list of desirables as it would have a material impact on your day to day life. The article could probably do with a contrasting source comparable to Agatha's wealth but from the countryside (even the "home counties") as the spending patterns would be very different.
estaseuropano 5y ago
It was also much more unusual to be in long-term debt as that often would have ended in serfdom-like situations. The ease of getting huge loans and credits nowadays is very novel.
- schnitzelstoat 5y ago
  The downside to this is that mass homeownership wasn't a thing at all. There was a huge class divide between the property owners who could accumulate wealth and those renting houses or tenement flats who were unlikely to ever be able to purchase their own property. Sadly, the insane UK housing market is causing such a divide to return.
parenthesis 5y ago
The UK railway network back then was very dense. In the UK you are never very far away from a road called Station Road with no (longer) any station or railway, or from a path that used to be a railway line. Or a strange bit of road with only the backs of things on it that use to be a railway line.
woobar 5y ago
Average salary around that time was £70 for men and £30 for women [1]. So they [Cristie's husband] were making 10x-15x average per year. I'd say someone that makes 10x current average (~$500K) doesn't have a problem buying a car with 1 months salary. Even with the currently inflated prices. [1] https://www.abroadintheyard.com/todays-luxuries-beyond-average-ancestor-cost-comparison/ https://www.abroadintheyard.com/todays-luxuries-beyond-avera...

by NoPie 5y ago

throwawaygh 5y ago

> maybe even more Average new car sale price at the end of 2021: $47,077 Average monthly household income at the end of 2021: $5,307 Even highly paid FAANG engineers are probably spending a few months income on a new car.

NoPie 5y ago
Many people, maybe even majority, buy used cars which cost less. They are probably more reliable than new cars in 1919. I was probably biased because I recently bought a used car without getting a loan which cost me about 3 months of income. In any case, she actually had a nice income if should could have bought a new car with 3 month income only. She just didn't have a real need for it. The story should have been not so much about her but that most other people were much poorer than today and had to work as maids to survive.
speby 5y ago
Yes, that's true, but even cars are not the same as the model T or other cars available in 1919. Besides cars being relatively "new" to society at the time, they also lacked, well, everything on this list and then some: * No heater * No air conditioning/cooling * No radio/CD/Bluetooth/Carplay/Android Auto * No speakers, let alone not 6 or 8 speakers that some cars have * No heated and cooled seats * No power mirrors * No power seats * No power steering * No power brakes (!!) * No ABS brakes or traction control * No self-driving capabilities, blind spot detection, automatic lane change, "smart" cruise control or any cruise control at all * No rear defrost * Not even a dome light! * No power windows * No power locks * No all-wheel drive. In fact, it was mostly single-wheel drive! * No in-screen dash or touchscreen controls * No massage seats * No "slow close" doors * No door sill illumination * No turn signals (until later, that is)! * No seatbelts (or if there were, they crude early versions) * No meaningful safety mechanisms, like collapsible steering columns and automatic airbags, side impact airbags, and proper crumple/structure design * No in-car entertainment options for movies, etc. * No in-car navigation systems * No OBD diagnostics to let you know when you are running low on oil or other critical fluids We could keep going ... but on the one hand, cars might cost "similar" or even more in today's standards, but they also DO so much more. Even if you said, well let's build the same vehicles they had then today, you couldn't. Government regulations force things like safety mechanisms that will cost more to deliver a final product.

jseban 5y ago

That was my conclusion as well, everything was simply insanely cheap then compared to today. A car today cost much more than 3 months salary, and to rent such an apartment would be basically impossible. The rent was 12% of his income only. Which means a bachelor with a middle class job could easily rent an apartment with 4 bedrooms and 2 sitting rooms. LOL Everything was much much cheaper. Except exotic food groceries.

Aeolun 5y ago
> A car today cost much more than 3 months salary Depending on where you work, not that much more. But you don’t get to spend all of your gross salary on cars.
- bluGill 5y ago
  I wonder how finance worked. Today a car might cost 3 months of salary, but I can get a loan to pay it off over 6 years. If I had to buy a new car without a loan I couldn't afford it because I don't normally keep that much savings. (Ignoring retirement savings which technically I could tap into)
  - virgilp 5y ago
    In Romania something like this happened with house prices. I bought my first flat just as credit was becoming available for the general population - it costed me 27k USD; at that time, it was customary that you'd pay in full for an apartment, people were actually looking suspicious at you for involving the bank! One colleague of mine wanted to keep saving and pay for an apartment in full; he didn't manage to, even though he was more senior (read: earned more money; also he lived alone, could save more than I could). What happened was that prices increased faster than his savings rate - effectively by waiting he lost money, and eventually gave up and took a credit. Now... there were multiple factors for the increases in the housing market, credit being available was not the only one, but I do believe it was one of the main drivers.
    - 5y ago

blutack 5y ago

She lived in central(ish) London, where today still a car isn't a necessity or particularly useful other than for travelling to the greater UK or specific jobs.

NoPie 5y ago
That's also true in many big cities (Singapore, New York). This article fails to consider this point of view that she really didn't need the car similarly to many people living in those places today. The fact that she could afford a maid and nurse, maybe was because she was wealthier than majority of population. If she was in 1% of income bracket (that would be $421,926 per year in the US), then it is not unusual for those people to hire cleaners or baby sitters on regular basis even if they don't employ them full time.
- blutack 5y ago
  Ah yes, I think I was agreeing with you than not everywhere is dependent on cars even today, and many of my London based friends neither own cars or have licenses. I'm sure in her time if you lived outside the city a car would be higher up the list of desirables as it would have a material impact on your day to day life. The article could probably do with a contrasting source comparable to Agatha's wealth but from the countryside (even the "home counties") as the spending patterns would be very different.

estaseuropano 5y ago

It was also much more unusual to be in long-term debt as that often would have ended in serfdom-like situations. The ease of getting huge loans and credits nowadays is very novel.

schnitzelstoat 5y ago
The downside to this is that mass homeownership wasn't a thing at all. There was a huge class divide between the property owners who could accumulate wealth and those renting houses or tenement flats who were unlikely to ever be able to purchase their own property. Sadly, the insane UK housing market is causing such a divide to return.

parenthesis 5y ago

The UK railway network back then was very dense. In the UK you are never very far away from a road called Station Road with no (longer) any station or railway, or from a path that used to be a railway line. Or a strange bit of road with only the backs of things on it that use to be a railway line.

woobar 5y ago

Average salary around that time was £70 for men and £30 for women [1]. So they [Cristie's husband] were making 10x-15x average per year. I'd say someone that makes 10x current average (~$500K) doesn't have a problem buying a car with 1 months salary. Even with the currently inflated prices. [1] https://www.abroadintheyard.com/todays-luxuries-beyond-average-ancestor-cost-comparison/ https://www.abroadintheyard.com/todays-luxuries-beyond-avera...