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> The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem. Something like 90% of the homeless ar

> The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem. Something like 90% of the homeless are in that category. Where'd you hear that? I've been watching a lot of Soft White Underbelly, interviews with people on Skid Row, and that doesn't really seem to be the case in general although there are a few [1]. Invisible People also does interviews with homeless people more widely and it's even rarer there [2]. Most of the time it just comes down to them not being able to afford to not be homeless and not having anyone to turn to. Without a home, they have no way to keep clean, receive mail or do anything else they need to do in order to keep a job. So it's a catch-22 for most. Without security, they are assaulted, get robbed (of even their basics), arrested and never get to rest, so there's a lot of positive feedback loops that can quickly make things even worse. 1. https://www.youtube.com/c/SoftWhiteUnderbelly https://www.youtube.com/c/SoftWhiteUnderbelly 2. https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople

aperson_hello 5y ago
It's more like 50%: https://www.samhsa.gov/sites/default/files/programs_campaigns/homelessness_programs_resources/hrc-factsheet-current-statistics-prevalence-characteristics-homelessness.pdf https://www.samhsa.gov/sites/default/files/programs_campaign... And 30% have severe mental health issues (same source). Treating those issues solves only ~half the problem though (though that's probably 90% of the visible problem). The rest (to your point) is that it's really hard to afford to get a home when you don't have one. I'd blame zoning as the biggest issue here. Boarding homes and micro-apartments are effectively banned in most cities. Meaning that the hurdle to go from homeless to not homeless is way higher than it should be. Instead of having to scrounge up a couple hundred bucks for a month's worth of housing, you're looking at a thousand or more.
- guerrilla 5y ago
  This is a survey of drug use, not cause of homelessness. Many people use drugs after they've become homeless because of how terrible and pointless it is. Check out the interviews.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    This reminds me of a survey that was done in Seattle about of homeless were from out of the county or not, and the data collected found most of them squad they were housed in pioneer square before becoming homeless. Anyone who knows Seattle would find that very fishy (it would be like most homeless in LA saying they were housed in skid row). Surveys in the homeless community are extremely unreliable, but I guess that makes sense (better to claim you started drugs after being homeless than admit you did them before, more sympathy that way). Even outside of the homeless context, self reported surveys aren’t considered reliable (see https://www.verywellmind.com/definition-of-self-report-425267 https://www.verywellmind.com/definition-of-self-report-42526...).
    - guerrilla 5y ago
      You should check out the interviews, hear it directly from the source.
      - vecinu 5y ago
        I sympathize with the OP, the source is unreliable. In a similar vain, a lot of US residents do not believe the numbers China is pumping out in regards to COVID-19, just another example of how the source can be unreliable. Being homeless changes your attitude and perspective on life. It's unlikely these people can be truly honest with outsiders, especially strangers because then they don't receive any aid or help. Personally, I can't take those interviews as a gospel of truth because I don't believe the authors.
        guerrilla 5y ago
        I think if you watched enough of the interviews, it'd shift your perspective. You're just begging the question at this point.
- DarylZero 5y ago
  Surely the trauma of homelessness itself is a severe mental health issue.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  > I'd blame zoning as the biggest issue here. I blame private property as the biggest issue here. Empty dwellings outnumber homeless people at least 10-to-1 in the Global North (France, UK, USA..). The fact that media and corporations pretend that's not a problem and the only solution to homelessness is to build more housing tells a lot about what's wrong with "our" approach to problem. If we lived in a democracy where people can decide for themselves locally, homelessness would be a non-issue. As a former squatter myself, i know for sure if we voted in my neighborhood for/against cracking empty housing to provide housing for all, over 90% of people would support it. If the people in power had the will to do anything about homelessness, by simply ordering police not to evict squats (unless someone squatted a person's residence while they were on vacation, which under french law is a "house theft" crime, not "squatting") in less than 72h we could rehouse all the homeless people and give them proper sanitation. The problem is the political class and their watchdogs (media, police) are only interested in protecting banks, corporations and wealthy individuals. They couldn't care less about homelessness or people who can't afford to eat.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
The percent of chronic homeless in the drug/substance abuse bucket is pretty high, but it’s like comparing the people visible on the streets (chronic) vs someone who ran out of money is and is crashing on a couch or living in their car. The problem is treating both kinds of homeless equally: they have completely different problems with completely different solutions. Give the chronic homeless just housing and they’ll more than likely just trash it or figure out how to support their habit with it, the latter will use the housing in the way it was intended as help. We should throw as much help as possible to those who aren’t in the drug and substance abuse bucket simply because it is very difficult to help them effectively once they move into that bucket.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  > The percent of chronic homeless in the drug/substance abuse bucket is pretty high That's true, but correlation does not equal causation. Many rich people have drugs/mental issues, too. Some drugs are basically a social status symbol in some circles (cocaine, champagne and some other fancy alcohols, for example). Many people become homeless due to reasons unrelated to drugs. Once you're homeless, basic survival becomes an every day struggle and it's not hard to see how mind-altering substances can be very appealing in this situation.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    > Many people become homeless due to reasons unrelated to drugs. Once you're homeless, basic survival becomes an every day struggle and it's not hard to see how mind-altering substances can be very appealing in this situation. For some definition of “many” sure, but many become homeless because of drugs, driving their families to give up on them as they are not able to deal with their problems. Still some are independent but lose their apartments as their $2k/month drug habit eats into rent money. Alcoholism is another problem. The fact that you claim substance abuse is so pervasive among those who aren’t homeless should provide some evidence that ya, people do fall into homelessness because they aren’t lucky enough to remain high functioning or have the support network that would allow them to abuse while remaining housed.
WalterBright 5y ago
> Where'd you hear that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw "60 Minutes" did a segment on that, too, and went interviewing Seattle homeless. Everyone they interviewed turned out to be a drug addict or an alcoholic, even though they initially fooled the 60 Minutes crew. Lots of them will say they were homeless because they lost their job, which is technically correct, but digging deeper reveals they lost their job because they were drug addicts and alcoholics.

aperson_hello 5y ago

It's more like 50%: https://www.samhsa.gov/sites/default/files/programs_campaigns/homelessness_programs_resources/hrc-factsheet-current-statistics-prevalence-characteristics-homelessness.pdf https://www.samhsa.gov/sites/default/files/programs_campaign... And 30% have severe mental health issues (same source). Treating those issues solves only ~half the problem though (though that's probably 90% of the visible problem). The rest (to your point) is that it's really hard to afford to get a home when you don't have one. I'd blame zoning as the biggest issue here. Boarding homes and micro-apartments are effectively banned in most cities. Meaning that the hurdle to go from homeless to not homeless is way higher than it should be. Instead of having to scrounge up a couple hundred bucks for a month's worth of housing, you're looking at a thousand or more.

guerrilla 5y ago
This is a survey of drug use, not cause of homelessness. Many people use drugs after they've become homeless because of how terrible and pointless it is. Check out the interviews.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  This reminds me of a survey that was done in Seattle about of homeless were from out of the county or not, and the data collected found most of them squad they were housed in pioneer square before becoming homeless. Anyone who knows Seattle would find that very fishy (it would be like most homeless in LA saying they were housed in skid row). Surveys in the homeless community are extremely unreliable, but I guess that makes sense (better to claim you started drugs after being homeless than admit you did them before, more sympathy that way). Even outside of the homeless context, self reported surveys aren’t considered reliable (see https://www.verywellmind.com/definition-of-self-report-425267 https://www.verywellmind.com/definition-of-self-report-42526...).
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    You should check out the interviews, hear it directly from the source.
    - vecinu 5y ago
      I sympathize with the OP, the source is unreliable. In a similar vain, a lot of US residents do not believe the numbers China is pumping out in regards to COVID-19, just another example of how the source can be unreliable. Being homeless changes your attitude and perspective on life. It's unlikely these people can be truly honest with outsiders, especially strangers because then they don't receive any aid or help. Personally, I can't take those interviews as a gospel of truth because I don't believe the authors.
      - guerrilla 5y ago
        I think if you watched enough of the interviews, it'd shift your perspective. You're just begging the question at this point.
DarylZero 5y ago
Surely the trauma of homelessness itself is a severe mental health issue.
southerntofu 5y ago
> I'd blame zoning as the biggest issue here. I blame private property as the biggest issue here. Empty dwellings outnumber homeless people at least 10-to-1 in the Global North (France, UK, USA..). The fact that media and corporations pretend that's not a problem and the only solution to homelessness is to build more housing tells a lot about what's wrong with "our" approach to problem. If we lived in a democracy where people can decide for themselves locally, homelessness would be a non-issue. As a former squatter myself, i know for sure if we voted in my neighborhood for/against cracking empty housing to provide housing for all, over 90% of people would support it. If the people in power had the will to do anything about homelessness, by simply ordering police not to evict squats (unless someone squatted a person's residence while they were on vacation, which under french law is a "house theft" crime, not "squatting") in less than 72h we could rehouse all the homeless people and give them proper sanitation. The problem is the political class and their watchdogs (media, police) are only interested in protecting banks, corporations and wealthy individuals. They couldn't care less about homelessness or people who can't afford to eat.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

The percent of chronic homeless in the drug/substance abuse bucket is pretty high, but it’s like comparing the people visible on the streets (chronic) vs someone who ran out of money is and is crashing on a couch or living in their car. The problem is treating both kinds of homeless equally: they have completely different problems with completely different solutions. Give the chronic homeless just housing and they’ll more than likely just trash it or figure out how to support their habit with it, the latter will use the housing in the way it was intended as help. We should throw as much help as possible to those who aren’t in the drug and substance abuse bucket simply because it is very difficult to help them effectively once they move into that bucket.

southerntofu 5y ago
> The percent of chronic homeless in the drug/substance abuse bucket is pretty high That's true, but correlation does not equal causation. Many rich people have drugs/mental issues, too. Some drugs are basically a social status symbol in some circles (cocaine, champagne and some other fancy alcohols, for example). Many people become homeless due to reasons unrelated to drugs. Once you're homeless, basic survival becomes an every day struggle and it's not hard to see how mind-altering substances can be very appealing in this situation.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  > Many people become homeless due to reasons unrelated to drugs. Once you're homeless, basic survival becomes an every day struggle and it's not hard to see how mind-altering substances can be very appealing in this situation. For some definition of “many” sure, but many become homeless because of drugs, driving their families to give up on them as they are not able to deal with their problems. Still some are independent but lose their apartments as their $2k/month drug habit eats into rent money. Alcoholism is another problem. The fact that you claim substance abuse is so pervasive among those who aren’t homeless should provide some evidence that ya, people do fall into homelessness because they aren’t lucky enough to remain high functioning or have the support network that would allow them to abuse while remaining housed.

WalterBright 5y ago

> Where'd you hear that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw "60 Minutes" did a segment on that, too, and went interviewing Seattle homeless. Everyone they interviewed turned out to be a drug addict or an alcoholic, even though they initially fooled the 60 Minutes crew. Lots of them will say they were homeless because they lost their job, which is technically correct, but digging deeper reveals they lost their job because they were drug addicts and alcoholics.