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> Today, America's poor have a better quality of life than medieval kings. This can’t be true. Just look at the homelessness situation across the US. No shelte

> Today, America's poor have a better quality of life than medieval kings. This can’t be true. Just look at the homelessness situation across the US. No shelter, no income, no sanitation. That is certainly worse quality of life than a king. You must starting your definition of poor quite a ways up the income scale. Maybe you could make make an argument for solidly middle class and above? Even then, there are even a lot of benefits to being a king which probably outweigh having basic modern amenities like running water and a nice bed. Who needs plumbing when you have a servant to bring you whatever you want? Beyond that, quality of life is also significantly emotional. There’s a lot of stress to life unless you’re rich, and you also don’t have very much control over things around you. A king has a significant amount of control by definition, and that probably contributes a lot to their quality of life.

WalterBright 5y ago
The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem. Something like 90% of the homeless are in that category. > Who needs plumbing when you have a servant to bring you whatever you want? I like hot showers. I bet you do, too. Besides, what do you think happens to kings when they get a toothache? No anesthetic, nothing to be done except an idiot with a pair of pliers and filthy hands. I doubt many kings had teeth after 35 or so. > There’s a lot of stress to life unless you’re rich, I'm afraid that's pretty presumptuous. The rich just have different problems. > and you also don’t have very much control over things around you. A king has a significant amount of control by definition, and that probably contributes a lot to their quality of life. When you're the king, everyone wants to kill you. Including your own brothers and sisters and kids. You have no friends. The losers in the game of thrones are always killed.
- wussboy 5y ago
  As Pinker points out in Enlightenment Now, progress is devilishly hard to measure. I enjoy more air conditioning than the Rothschilds. But I feel like they perhaps enjoyed other things that I can never aspire to…
  - changxi_hn 5y ago
- guerrilla 5y ago
  > The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem. Something like 90% of the homeless are in that category. Where'd you hear that? I've been watching a lot of Soft White Underbelly, interviews with people on Skid Row, and that doesn't really seem to be the case in general although there are a few [1]. Invisible People also does interviews with homeless people more widely and it's even rarer there [2]. Most of the time it just comes down to them not being able to afford to not be homeless and not having anyone to turn to. Without a home, they have no way to keep clean, receive mail or do anything else they need to do in order to keep a job. So it's a catch-22 for most. Without security, they are assaulted, get robbed (of even their basics), arrested and never get to rest, so there's a lot of positive feedback loops that can quickly make things even worse. 1. https://www.youtube.com/c/SoftWhiteUnderbelly https://www.youtube.com/c/SoftWhiteUnderbelly 2. https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople
  - aperson_hello 5y ago
    It's more like 50%: https://www.samhsa.gov/sites/default/files/programs_campaigns/homelessness_programs_resources/hrc-factsheet-current-statistics-prevalence-characteristics-homelessness.pdf https://www.samhsa.gov/sites/default/files/programs_campaign... And 30% have severe mental health issues (same source). Treating those issues solves only ~half the problem though (though that's probably 90% of the visible problem). The rest (to your point) is that it's really hard to afford to get a home when you don't have one. I'd blame zoning as the biggest issue here. Boarding homes and micro-apartments are effectively banned in most cities. Meaning that the hurdle to go from homeless to not homeless is way higher than it should be. Instead of having to scrounge up a couple hundred bucks for a month's worth of housing, you're looking at a thousand or more.
    - guerrilla 5y ago
      This is a survey of drug use, not cause of homelessness. Many people use drugs after they've become homeless because of how terrible and pointless it is. Check out the interviews.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  So the 40 million Americans living below the poverty line with zero access to health care or dental services are living like kings? Really? May I suggest that you talk to some of them and ask if they feel like Kings/Queens?
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    Source? Why don't they have medicaid? It covers everyone under the 140% the poverty line.
    - t-3 5y ago
      140% of the poverty line doesn't even reach $20,000.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > 140% of the poverty line doesn't even reach $20,000. Median household size is around 2.5. Poverty line for household size 2 is $17,420, for 3 is $21,960.
        t-3 5y ago
        And for an individual is 12,280.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Why don't they have medicaid? It covers everyone under the 140% the poverty line. No, it doesn't; in states that have expanded, it covers up to 138% of the FPL, but in some states for adults without dependent children who are neither aged, blind, disabled, nor pregnant, it covers nothing, and for parents of dependent children the limit is still not 138%.
    - mbrodersen 5y ago
      How about the millions of people who are just above the poverty line but can't afford private health/dental?
- nemothekid 5y ago
  >The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem. This is more like a convenient truth. How many of those people become homeless, then turn drugs? It's not like the US's social safety net is particularly robust, and even just being on the street for a week can expose you to the violent way the homeless are treated.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    Drug addiction leads to homelessness, as the addict's priority is always getting the drugs. Things like jobs, friends, family, sense, are all sacrificed for the drugs. Everything is sacrificed, and so they wind up on the street. Treating a homeless drug addict as a victim of poverty is like giving cough medicine to a person with lung cancer. It does not work.
    - nemothekid 5y ago
      That is a very simplistic view of addiction; High functioning addiction is the norm - Purdue made billions creating them. I'm sure - at your workplace in a major city like SF or NY you have worked with people addicted to Benzos, Cocaine, or Alcohol. Most of them will tell you they can "quit any time" (they can't), but are still capable of taking a shower and showing up to work. >Treating a homeless drug addict as a victim of poverty is like giving cough medicine to a person with lung cancer. It does not work. How do you rehab someone who does not have stable shelter? Are they supposed to battle withdrawal on the street? Housing first policies have demonstrably worked in Finland and Austria.
      - WalterBright 5y ago
        > How do you rehab someone who does not have stable shelter? Put them in a drug rehab facility. It's still not an economic problem, it's a drug addiction problem.
        DarylZero 5y ago
- chaostheory 5y ago
  While you’re partially right that chronic homelessness is related to drug abuse, most of them are mentally ill. Unfortunately due to legal changes in the 1980’s, you can no longer help the mentally ill unless they provide consent. The end result is they stay homeless, while the other 80% of the homeless end up recovering in less than a year.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    Mental illness is indeed a cause of some of the homelessness. But this isn't a poverty down-on-their-luck problem, it's a mental illness problem.
    - chaostheory 5y ago
      Yes, if I wasn’t clear enough that was my point with chronic homelessness, unless you meant to respond to someone else.
- varnaud 5y ago
  The homeless issue is in the name. It's people without a home. The solution is to provide people with a place they can call home, like a house or an apartment. Why focus on drugs? Do you believe that some people deserve to have no home if they have a drug problem? With the security and comfort of having a home, becoming a productive member of society becomes much easier if that's what you care about.
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mandernt 5y ago
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WalterBright 5y ago

The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem. Something like 90% of the homeless are in that category. > Who needs plumbing when you have a servant to bring you whatever you want? I like hot showers. I bet you do, too. Besides, what do you think happens to kings when they get a toothache? No anesthetic, nothing to be done except an idiot with a pair of pliers and filthy hands. I doubt many kings had teeth after 35 or so. > There’s a lot of stress to life unless you’re rich, I'm afraid that's pretty presumptuous. The rich just have different problems. > and you also don’t have very much control over things around you. A king has a significant amount of control by definition, and that probably contributes a lot to their quality of life. When you're the king, everyone wants to kill you. Including your own brothers and sisters and kids. You have no friends. The losers in the game of thrones are always killed.

wussboy 5y ago
As Pinker points out in Enlightenment Now, progress is devilishly hard to measure. I enjoy more air conditioning than the Rothschilds. But I feel like they perhaps enjoyed other things that I can never aspire to…
- changxi_hn 5y ago
guerrilla 5y ago
> The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem. Something like 90% of the homeless are in that category. Where'd you hear that? I've been watching a lot of Soft White Underbelly, interviews with people on Skid Row, and that doesn't really seem to be the case in general although there are a few [1]. Invisible People also does interviews with homeless people more widely and it's even rarer there [2]. Most of the time it just comes down to them not being able to afford to not be homeless and not having anyone to turn to. Without a home, they have no way to keep clean, receive mail or do anything else they need to do in order to keep a job. So it's a catch-22 for most. Without security, they are assaulted, get robbed (of even their basics), arrested and never get to rest, so there's a lot of positive feedback loops that can quickly make things even worse. 1. https://www.youtube.com/c/SoftWhiteUnderbelly https://www.youtube.com/c/SoftWhiteUnderbelly 2. https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople
- aperson_hello 5y ago
  It's more like 50%: https://www.samhsa.gov/sites/default/files/programs_campaigns/homelessness_programs_resources/hrc-factsheet-current-statistics-prevalence-characteristics-homelessness.pdf https://www.samhsa.gov/sites/default/files/programs_campaign... And 30% have severe mental health issues (same source). Treating those issues solves only ~half the problem though (though that's probably 90% of the visible problem). The rest (to your point) is that it's really hard to afford to get a home when you don't have one. I'd blame zoning as the biggest issue here. Boarding homes and micro-apartments are effectively banned in most cities. Meaning that the hurdle to go from homeless to not homeless is way higher than it should be. Instead of having to scrounge up a couple hundred bucks for a month's worth of housing, you're looking at a thousand or more.
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    This is a survey of drug use, not cause of homelessness. Many people use drugs after they've become homeless because of how terrible and pointless it is. Check out the interviews.
mbrodersen 5y ago
So the 40 million Americans living below the poverty line with zero access to health care or dental services are living like kings? Really? May I suggest that you talk to some of them and ask if they feel like Kings/Queens?
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Source? Why don't they have medicaid? It covers everyone under the 140% the poverty line.
  - t-3 5y ago
    140% of the poverty line doesn't even reach $20,000.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > 140% of the poverty line doesn't even reach $20,000. Median household size is around 2.5. Poverty line for household size 2 is $17,420, for 3 is $21,960.
      - t-3 5y ago
        And for an individual is 12,280.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Why don't they have medicaid? It covers everyone under the 140% the poverty line. No, it doesn't; in states that have expanded, it covers up to 138% of the FPL, but in some states for adults without dependent children who are neither aged, blind, disabled, nor pregnant, it covers nothing, and for parents of dependent children the limit is still not 138%.
  - mbrodersen 5y ago
    How about the millions of people who are just above the poverty line but can't afford private health/dental?
nemothekid 5y ago
>The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem. This is more like a convenient truth. How many of those people become homeless, then turn drugs? It's not like the US's social safety net is particularly robust, and even just being on the street for a week can expose you to the violent way the homeless are treated.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  Drug addiction leads to homelessness, as the addict's priority is always getting the drugs. Things like jobs, friends, family, sense, are all sacrificed for the drugs. Everything is sacrificed, and so they wind up on the street. Treating a homeless drug addict as a victim of poverty is like giving cough medicine to a person with lung cancer. It does not work.
  - nemothekid 5y ago
    That is a very simplistic view of addiction; High functioning addiction is the norm - Purdue made billions creating them. I'm sure - at your workplace in a major city like SF or NY you have worked with people addicted to Benzos, Cocaine, or Alcohol. Most of them will tell you they can "quit any time" (they can't), but are still capable of taking a shower and showing up to work. >Treating a homeless drug addict as a victim of poverty is like giving cough medicine to a person with lung cancer. It does not work. How do you rehab someone who does not have stable shelter? Are they supposed to battle withdrawal on the street? Housing first policies have demonstrably worked in Finland and Austria.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      > How do you rehab someone who does not have stable shelter? Put them in a drug rehab facility. It's still not an economic problem, it's a drug addiction problem.
      - DarylZero 5y ago
chaostheory 5y ago
While you’re partially right that chronic homelessness is related to drug abuse, most of them are mentally ill. Unfortunately due to legal changes in the 1980’s, you can no longer help the mentally ill unless they provide consent. The end result is they stay homeless, while the other 80% of the homeless end up recovering in less than a year.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  Mental illness is indeed a cause of some of the homelessness. But this isn't a poverty down-on-their-luck problem, it's a mental illness problem.
  - chaostheory 5y ago
    Yes, if I wasn’t clear enough that was my point with chronic homelessness, unless you meant to respond to someone else.
varnaud 5y ago
The homeless issue is in the name. It's people without a home. The solution is to provide people with a place they can call home, like a house or an apartment. Why focus on drugs? Do you believe that some people deserve to have no home if they have a drug problem? With the security and comfort of having a home, becoming a productive member of society becomes much easier if that's what you care about.

deleted 5y ago

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mandernt 5y ago

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