6 ms·

Sony is Japan’s Apple if anyone is. A company like Nintendo doesn’t seem like it has an American equivalent, and I actually can’t imagine a company like that s

by jmole 5y ago

Sony is Japan’s Apple if anyone is. A company like Nintendo doesn’t seem like it has an American equivalent, and I actually can’t imagine a company like that surviving the ups and downs of the 80s/90s/00s tech cycles in the US, especially with our tendency towards M&A.

brandrick 5y ago
..and Nintendo is Japan's Disney. (yes yes, Ghibli)
TylerE 5y ago
I don't get the Sony:Apple comparison at all. If anything, Sony is Japan's Microsoft: Do a gazillion things, many of them poorly, to such a unfocused extent that some of your divisions actually end up competition with each other. Like in Sony's case, how they've had internal battles for decades between the device side (that wants to make devices that are useful) and the content side (that wants DRM out the ass on everything)
- Melatonic 5y ago
  I would say Panasonic is actually the Apple of Japan but with more of a focus on business to business in addition to consumer. They make a gazillion things but generally they are all damn good. Sony is like a fancier Microsoft Who knows with Nintendo
  - fomine3 5y ago
    Panasonic mainly makes boring good products (though some are nice). It's apparently not like Apple.
- astrange 5y ago
  Sony is older than Apple and was one of Steve Jobs' main inspirations. He even wanted to make everyone wear uniforms (which Sony and Nintendo still did then) - that's where his same outfit every day habit came from. They weren't focused back then, but neither was Apple.
  - dec0dedab0de 5y ago
    Sony is older than Apple... Unrelated to your point, but Nintendo is older than Sony and Apple combined. Apple 45 years Sony 75 years Nintendo 132 years
    - lkois 5y ago
      Yea it's crazy. My dad has a classic Gameboy that his great grandfather purchased during the first world war. That Gameboy saw a couple more wars after that too, including 5 years up my grandads ass in a POW camp, and 2 more inside another soldier who brought it back for us. Can confirm it tastes bad.
      - RC_ITR 5y ago
        I know you're trying to make the point that Nintendo revolutionized itself and is a foundationally different company than it was in the 1910's, but not really. Trading cards (cutting edge color printing) -> Mechanical toys (cutting edge machining) -> Basic games like Game and Watch -> Video Games. Nintendo just makes complex toys using cutting edge tech and always has.
  - kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
    Didn't Jobs also offer Sony to make laptops that ran OS X? Also, random thing, but both Orbis (Playstation operating system) and OS X are based on FreeBSD.
    - Hamuko 5y ago
      Apparently they even made an official Sony VAIO Hackintosh. https://www.theverge.com/2014/2/5/5380832/sony-vaio-apple-os-x-steve-jobs-meeting-report https://www.theverge.com/2014/2/5/5380832/sony-vaio-apple-os...
    - mattkevan 5y ago
      Pretty sure OS X is based on the Mach/XNU kernel and Darwin, not FreeBSD.
- grenoire 5y ago
  It's not entirely about the business structure or its fundamental revenue sources. Don't think like an accountant here, it's about the brand. In terms of being the top-tier tech and hardware firm of your nation, Sony is Japan's Apple. It's a strong household name too, regardless of their conglomerate style being close to Microsoft.
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  It took them twenty years to give up trying to push Memory Stick, a product that was made irrelevant in barely four years by SD cards.
  - ascagnel_ 5y ago
    I pin the failure of the Vita (a system designed around downloadable games with hardware buttons) on the need to use proprietary memory. Yes, Sony made more off of the proprietary memory than off of SD/uSD cards, but handicapped the system and made the downloadable games that should have been its bread and butter an expensive proposition for users.
- tacker2000 5y ago
  I dont know if you can say that Sony is doing stuff “poorly”. Most of the hardware they make is very solid. Think about their speakers, headphones, the consoles, etc. But yes i agree, they are a huge company with a lot of divisions where sometimes the decisions are at odds. Which parts do you think are doing poorly?
  - ngngngng 5y ago
    Which parts do you think are doing poorly? The names of their products. How do you keep anything straight when the name of each product is UUID?
    - toast0 5y ago
      That's easy, UUIDs are unique, so it's easy to tell them apart, although it's hard to group them. Much better than deciding what the heck 'new iPad' means or if you want a new old 3ds or a used new 3ds, or if updating iOS means your phone or your router.
      - easrng 5y ago
        To be fair, Cisco IOS and Apple iOS are not from the same company and aren't really in the same field.
        toast0 5y ago
        Sure, but Apple had to buy the rights to the trademark for iOS from the same company they had to buy the rights for the trademark for iPhone.
      - spiderice 5y ago
        Just because Apple has had some bad names doesn't make Sony's names better. Don't compare Sony's naming conventions with iPad, compare them with iPhone, which is significantly easier. Q: Which iPhone do you have A: iPhone 12 Pro Max (I choose this one because it's one of the longer iPhone names) vs Q: Which Sony headphones do you have A: MX 4 or something like that. Let me check my Amazon order history. Oh yeah, here it is. The WH-1000XM4 I'd much prefer the iPhone naming convention to what Sony does, and Apple having screwed up the iPad naming doesn't really excuse Sony here.
- nemothekid 5y ago
  >Do a gazillion things, many of them poorly What does Sony do poorly? Sony has the same dysfunction Apple has - everything has to be invented in house. If you told me that a company invented an high end camera that 20% more than the competitors and used proprietary connectors and memory cards, I wouldn't be surprised if that was Apple. >decades between the device side (that wants to make devices that are useful) and the content side (that wants DRM out the ass on everything) Remember FairPlay?
  - TylerE 5y ago
    Aibo? The Qualia fiasco? PSPgo?
  - hermitdev 5y ago
    > Remember FairPlay? Was FairPlay the name of the rootkit they'd install if you tried to play one of their audio CDs in a Windows PC?
    - easrng 5y ago
      FairPlay is Apple's DRM.
RC_ITR 5y ago
I would disagree - No one ever really assumed Sony would go out of business from a fundamental standpoint. They may have gone through a period of diminished value and failed projects (laptops, smartphones, etc.), but the PlayStation has always been a hit, the media arm has always been a 'Top 4' player, the headphones were always category-leading, the camera sensors were always top notch, and I'm sure I'm missing many other aspects of their business. If anything that brings to mind MSFT (who's always led in core areas, but has also had periods of diminished value and failed projects). On the other hand, many people thought Nintendo (as we know it at least) might go belly-up in the Gamecube and Wii U eras. There was real talk of them becoming a game dev with no hardware if the Switch was as much of a failure [0]. Similar to the talk around Apple post-Newton, pre-iBook. [0]https://www.gonintendo.com/stories/376204-after-the-failure-of-wii-u-reggie-says-switch-was-a-make-or-bre https://www.gonintendo.com/stories/376204-after-the-failure-...
- GlitchMr 5y ago
  Nintendo has a lot of money, a failure of a home console after Wii U probably would kill their home console division (no reason to continue making products if they all fail), but it wouldn't kill the company as a whole, in particular they would keep making handheld consoles. Since Sony has entered home console market, Nintendo was essentially unable to compete with them. Nintendo 64, GameCube and Wii U weren't successful compared to PlayStation. Wii and Switch on the other hand succeeded by doing something completely different to what PlayStation did.
Dig1t 5y ago
That comparison aside, I think Nintendo and Apple are very similar in a spiritual sense. They both love vertical integration, they both love to own as much of the software and hardware stack as possible, they both have a perceived emphasis on quality, independence of thought, they don't play nicely with others as much as they can get away with, they both have super loyal, obsessive fanbases, and they have literal mountains of cash because of this attitude within their respective industries. I think Sony is in a similar line of business as Apple but they don't have the same attitude that these two share. Another company I'd lump in with these 2 would be Disney for the same reasons as above.
mikewhy 5y ago
> A company like Nintendo doesn’t seem like it has an American equivalent I find they're similar to pre giant-media-conglomerate Disney. Their products target families, and are very child friendly. Ridiculous limits on when you can buy things (Disney Vault, Mario 35). Both are incredibly litigious. Although I can't think of any comparisons to Nintendo's lack of decent online services.

by jmole 5y ago

brandrick 5y ago

..and Nintendo is Japan's Disney. (yes yes, Ghibli)

TylerE 5y ago

I don't get the Sony:Apple comparison at all. If anything, Sony is Japan's Microsoft: Do a gazillion things, many of them poorly, to such a unfocused extent that some of your divisions actually end up competition with each other. Like in Sony's case, how they've had internal battles for decades between the device side (that wants to make devices that are useful) and the content side (that wants DRM out the ass on everything)

Melatonic 5y ago
I would say Panasonic is actually the Apple of Japan but with more of a focus on business to business in addition to consumer. They make a gazillion things but generally they are all damn good. Sony is like a fancier Microsoft Who knows with Nintendo
- fomine3 5y ago
  Panasonic mainly makes boring good products (though some are nice). It's apparently not like Apple.
astrange 5y ago
Sony is older than Apple and was one of Steve Jobs' main inspirations. He even wanted to make everyone wear uniforms (which Sony and Nintendo still did then) - that's where his same outfit every day habit came from. They weren't focused back then, but neither was Apple.
- dec0dedab0de 5y ago
  Sony is older than Apple... Unrelated to your point, but Nintendo is older than Sony and Apple combined. Apple 45 years Sony 75 years Nintendo 132 years
  - lkois 5y ago
    Yea it's crazy. My dad has a classic Gameboy that his great grandfather purchased during the first world war. That Gameboy saw a couple more wars after that too, including 5 years up my grandads ass in a POW camp, and 2 more inside another soldier who brought it back for us. Can confirm it tastes bad.
    - RC_ITR 5y ago
      I know you're trying to make the point that Nintendo revolutionized itself and is a foundationally different company than it was in the 1910's, but not really. Trading cards (cutting edge color printing) -> Mechanical toys (cutting edge machining) -> Basic games like Game and Watch -> Video Games. Nintendo just makes complex toys using cutting edge tech and always has.
- kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
  Didn't Jobs also offer Sony to make laptops that ran OS X? Also, random thing, but both Orbis (Playstation operating system) and OS X are based on FreeBSD.
  - Hamuko 5y ago
    Apparently they even made an official Sony VAIO Hackintosh. https://www.theverge.com/2014/2/5/5380832/sony-vaio-apple-os-x-steve-jobs-meeting-report https://www.theverge.com/2014/2/5/5380832/sony-vaio-apple-os...
  - mattkevan 5y ago
    Pretty sure OS X is based on the Mach/XNU kernel and Darwin, not FreeBSD.
grenoire 5y ago
It's not entirely about the business structure or its fundamental revenue sources. Don't think like an accountant here, it's about the brand. In terms of being the top-tier tech and hardware firm of your nation, Sony is Japan's Apple. It's a strong household name too, regardless of their conglomerate style being close to Microsoft.
KennyBlanken 5y ago
It took them twenty years to give up trying to push Memory Stick, a product that was made irrelevant in barely four years by SD cards.
- ascagnel_ 5y ago
  I pin the failure of the Vita (a system designed around downloadable games with hardware buttons) on the need to use proprietary memory. Yes, Sony made more off of the proprietary memory than off of SD/uSD cards, but handicapped the system and made the downloadable games that should have been its bread and butter an expensive proposition for users.
tacker2000 5y ago
I dont know if you can say that Sony is doing stuff “poorly”. Most of the hardware they make is very solid. Think about their speakers, headphones, the consoles, etc. But yes i agree, they are a huge company with a lot of divisions where sometimes the decisions are at odds. Which parts do you think are doing poorly?
- ngngngng 5y ago
  Which parts do you think are doing poorly? The names of their products. How do you keep anything straight when the name of each product is UUID?
  - toast0 5y ago
    That's easy, UUIDs are unique, so it's easy to tell them apart, although it's hard to group them. Much better than deciding what the heck 'new iPad' means or if you want a new old 3ds or a used new 3ds, or if updating iOS means your phone or your router.
    - easrng 5y ago
      To be fair, Cisco IOS and Apple iOS are not from the same company and aren't really in the same field.
      - toast0 5y ago
        Sure, but Apple had to buy the rights to the trademark for iOS from the same company they had to buy the rights for the trademark for iPhone.
    - spiderice 5y ago
      Just because Apple has had some bad names doesn't make Sony's names better. Don't compare Sony's naming conventions with iPad, compare them with iPhone, which is significantly easier. Q: Which iPhone do you have A: iPhone 12 Pro Max (I choose this one because it's one of the longer iPhone names) vs Q: Which Sony headphones do you have A: MX 4 or something like that. Let me check my Amazon order history. Oh yeah, here it is. The WH-1000XM4 I'd much prefer the iPhone naming convention to what Sony does, and Apple having screwed up the iPad naming doesn't really excuse Sony here.
nemothekid 5y ago
>Do a gazillion things, many of them poorly What does Sony do poorly? Sony has the same dysfunction Apple has - everything has to be invented in house. If you told me that a company invented an high end camera that 20% more than the competitors and used proprietary connectors and memory cards, I wouldn't be surprised if that was Apple. >decades between the device side (that wants to make devices that are useful) and the content side (that wants DRM out the ass on everything) Remember FairPlay?
- TylerE 5y ago
  Aibo? The Qualia fiasco? PSPgo?
- hermitdev 5y ago
  > Remember FairPlay? Was FairPlay the name of the rootkit they'd install if you tried to play one of their audio CDs in a Windows PC?
  - easrng 5y ago
    FairPlay is Apple's DRM.

RC_ITR 5y ago

I would disagree - No one ever really assumed Sony would go out of business from a fundamental standpoint. They may have gone through a period of diminished value and failed projects (laptops, smartphones, etc.), but the PlayStation has always been a hit, the media arm has always been a 'Top 4' player, the headphones were always category-leading, the camera sensors were always top notch, and I'm sure I'm missing many other aspects of their business. If anything that brings to mind MSFT (who's always led in core areas, but has also had periods of diminished value and failed projects). On the other hand, many people thought Nintendo (as we know it at least) might go belly-up in the Gamecube and Wii U eras. There was real talk of them becoming a game dev with no hardware if the Switch was as much of a failure [0]. Similar to the talk around Apple post-Newton, pre-iBook. [0]https://www.gonintendo.com/stories/376204-after-the-failure-of-wii-u-reggie-says-switch-was-a-make-or-bre https://www.gonintendo.com/stories/376204-after-the-failure-...

GlitchMr 5y ago
Nintendo has a lot of money, a failure of a home console after Wii U probably would kill their home console division (no reason to continue making products if they all fail), but it wouldn't kill the company as a whole, in particular they would keep making handheld consoles. Since Sony has entered home console market, Nintendo was essentially unable to compete with them. Nintendo 64, GameCube and Wii U weren't successful compared to PlayStation. Wii and Switch on the other hand succeeded by doing something completely different to what PlayStation did.

Dig1t 5y ago

That comparison aside, I think Nintendo and Apple are very similar in a spiritual sense. They both love vertical integration, they both love to own as much of the software and hardware stack as possible, they both have a perceived emphasis on quality, independence of thought, they don't play nicely with others as much as they can get away with, they both have super loyal, obsessive fanbases, and they have literal mountains of cash because of this attitude within their respective industries. I think Sony is in a similar line of business as Apple but they don't have the same attitude that these two share. Another company I'd lump in with these 2 would be Disney for the same reasons as above.

mikewhy 5y ago

> A company like Nintendo doesn’t seem like it has an American equivalent I find they're similar to pre giant-media-conglomerate Disney. Their products target families, and are very child friendly. Ridiculous limits on when you can buy things (Disney Vault, Mario 35). Both are incredibly litigious. Although I can't think of any comparisons to Nintendo's lack of decent online services.