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I've done it, and it was one of the best decisions of my life. WHERE: I'm Australian, moved to LA when I was 18 and lived there for 15 years. Then, I moved fr

I've done it, and it was one of the best decisions of my life. WHERE: I'm Australian, moved to LA when I was 18 and lived there for 15 years. Then, I moved from Los Angeles to Germany (Duesseldorf), and then to Vienna, Austria. WHAT SACRIFICE: No more In 'n Out Burger, no more decent Mexican/TexMex food, no more LA food trucks. These are literally the only things I miss about the USA. Literally every other aspect of life has improved massively by leaving the USA - healthcare, food, social life. For the first 4 years I walked to work, ffs. Now I ride a bicycle in combination with the best public transportation options in the world (Austria, Vienna). GAINED: I've completely lost the brain-dead nationalist mentality that had infected me in my earlier life, I've gained Immense amounts of respect for humanity, I've learned German, I've experienced professional software and hardware development away from Silicon Valley standard practices, and I get to see the USA from outside the decadent, rose-colored bubble from which it is usually experienced. I honestly wish I'd left sooner - every time I go back I'm reminded just how much of a shithole the USA really is .. Plus, living and loving in Europe is just great. There is no greater joy than a trip through the Balkans for a week adventure, or maybe a jaunt to Spain or southern France. Just being able to travel an hour in any direction and being immersed in absolutely foreign culture is a joy like no other. Definitely a great way to ground oneself. EDIT: The weather was pretty good in LA. But, still: Americans.

dukeyukey 5y ago
How does LA and Vienna compare to Australia?
- boffinAudio 5y ago
  Australia is a different dimension altogether - you have a lot of the trappings of Western (US/European) culture, but none of the advantages of access to a free market. Personally, I can't stand Australian culture, nor American either these days - which isn't to say I'm launching into an adopted German/Austrian stance, just that .. being away from these lands for a decade at least in each case, I started to see the shine wear off long, long ago. Quality of life is pretty high in Australia, though, I have to admit. Nothing quite like hitting the beach after work - which I did a few times in LA, only to get a horrendous infection. But, still, I am lucky enough to choose my path and I am for sure never going back to Australia to live. Or, LA/USA.
  - pc86 5y ago
    I'm not sure if this is intentional but in all your comments you just come across as a hateful, angry person.
    - MagnumOpus 5y ago
      Not to me. He answers the questions honestly, bluntly and without the condescending sandwich feedback technique that many here employ.
      - pc86 5y ago
    - boffinAudio 5y ago
      I definitely am glad I left the USA, and I for sure hate what Americans are doing to the world. I think its time a lot of you left, frankly.
      - dang 5y ago
        Whoa - posts like this will get you banned on HN, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
    - hndude 5y ago
      Very negative, if nothing else. Bit difficult to read their comments when the amount of ego oozing through their words is palpable.
    - dkjaudyeqooe 5y ago
      I'm guessing here, but you're probably American taking offense to someone being frank and direct in their communications. It's a cultural difference.
  - 5y ago
- et-al 5y ago
  Speaking in broad strokes, America is culturally closer to Australia than Vienna.
AdrianB1 5y ago
Just curious: how long since you moved out of USA? How long it took to learn German well enough (in your personal opinion) to integrate well?
- mistahenry 5y ago
  I moved to Germany as well and self taught German to a high B2 level in the 15 months before moving. That was enough where I was able to be conversationally fluent within 3 months of arrival When I self taught, I primarily used Assimil and Pimsleur daily for the first six months. After completing those programs, I continued with the daily study (that’s the most important part!) and used Easy German the YouTube channel, watched a bunch of German shows, and worked on speaking just by narrating / describing random things and looking up words as needed.
  - emj 5y ago
    For me it was most important to get books in my field in german, read them slowly and learn all the buzzterms and experssion. Some books you can read without really understanding them, e.g. some best selling paper back without any weight too it. I haven't worked in Germany but it's a perfect country to learn by reading books
- boffinAudio 5y ago
  20 years - I left just after 9/11, during which period I witnessed the USA collectively shitting itself, and during which I decided to play no part in the USA's continued economic survival. Far better to have moved to Germany and get things happening in a country not inclined to blood-lust because it was finally attacked the way it had been attacking countries, with impunity, for decades prior. The German culture's proclivity for peace-making, and especially on the subject of forgiveness, far outweighs any of the gung-ho American enthusiasms that might be fashionable .. Honestly, it took me 5 years to feel comfortable speaking fluent German - mostly because Germans just refuse to correct German-speaking expats, instead choosing to switch to their English ..
  - Oddskar 5y ago
FPGAhacker 5y ago
I don’t know how much of the US you experienced, but LA is hardly representative of the country.
- boffinAudio 5y ago
  - exdsq 5y ago
    Does Rust or Go count?
  - systemvoltage 5y ago
    > Americans are an unimpressive, vain and ugly people - who admittedly know how to sell things Replace Americans with any other nationality and see how offensive this sounds.
    - boffinAudio 5y ago
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - notch656a 5y ago
    - boffinAudio 5y ago
      - notch656a 5y ago
        Wow, high roller. Talk about vain. I wasn't talking about money.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
syki 5y ago
I grew up in an American colony; the Canal Zone. We had our own schools and were taught U.S. curriculum and about the U.S. I was a rabid nationalist. I had never lived in the U.S. until I went to college but had visited it. Ever since coming to the U.S. I slowly became more and more liberal and less and less nationalistic. The myths I was taught about the U.S. did not withstand my experience of the country. Everything is so spread out and car centric. Our towns and cities are concrete jungles with massive amounts of parking lots that are rarely used. It’s very hard to live where you can walk to a grocery store. We are a nation of building dwellers using giant vehicles to take us from one building to another one. And the food; massive amounts of added sugar and fruit that is tasteless. Addicted to crappy fast food, lonely, and under exercised. Major changes are desperately needed.
- hpkuarg 5y ago
  Isn't that the plot of Jack Reacher?
- rory 5y ago
  > It’s very hard to live where you can walk to a grocery store. Very hard seems like an exaggeration. More expensive, maybe, but millions of low-income people also do it. I didn't have a car for most of my twenties, and the majority of my social group didn't either. Living in a more spread out area of the US is a choice-- one that comes with benefits, but still a choice.
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
    I think you’re getting a bit too caught up with wether it’s possible to walk to the grocery store for most Americans. I think you can agree that in most places, if you are walking to get groceries, you are either living in a well to do area, or you are forced to because you can’t afford a car, and it isn’t a pleasant experience.
    - rory 5y ago
      "Hard to walk to the grocery store where you live" isn't the same thing as "hard to live where you can walk to the grocery store". If you count entire cities as "well to do areas" then I suppose I agree.
rwev 5y ago
Hearing that you only lived in LA makes your take on the US very partial and flawed. LA has a reputation even within the US of being what you describe as a "shithole." I lived in Germany for years, the former east, and it would be unfair to call Germany a "shithole" based on my own experience in the former Soviet bloc, which has struggled both pre and post reunification due to Communist rule.
- severino 5y ago
  > I lived in Germany for years, the former east, and it would be unfair to call Germany a "shithole" based on my own experience in the former Soviet bloc, which has struggled both pre and post reunification due to Communist rule. Come on, dude. Germany was "communist" for less than 40 years. You have been "free" and cool for 33 and counting. The wall existed for only 28. Are you going to keep blaming "communists" for the next 400 years? :D
  - rwev 5y ago
    The lasting impact and practical effects of the iron curtain on both culture and economic is real. In fact, there is special income tax, Solidaritätszuschlag, that is paid on all income as special assistance in rebuilding and equalizing the former East. And you know nothing about me.
    - severino 5y ago
      > And you know nothing about me. I know you think the east side of Germany is not a good place today because what happened there more than 30 years ago. But you know what? GDR commies said in the late 80s their regime was not a good place either because what happened there 40 years earlier! Sound familiar?
starik36 5y ago
Being able to go on a road trip and end up in a different culture sounds awesome. I do that often in California, but there are only so many places you can go.
- mbg721 5y ago
  Drive fifty miles out from the suburbs of your hometown, sit down at a diner, and you can have something different. It might end with the cringeyness of the Top Gear guys, but it's there.
- Balero 5y ago
  > Being able to go on a road trip and end up in a different culture sounds awesome. I do that often in California, but there are only so many places you can go. You can take the train, no need to drive even better!
- boffinAudio 5y ago
  I absolutely love taking trips around the Balkans, and have been very lucky to have gotten quite familiar with Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia and Kosovo in my recent travels. In a matter of hours, the universal constants (language, food, culture) have been replaced, and there are just so, so many beautiful things to discover in these countries. Words to blow ones minds, history that brings tears with a few simple footsteps...
  - teakettle42 5y ago
    > Words to blow ones minds, history that brings tears with a few simple footsteps... These are exactly the kinds of faux profundities I used to hear — and say! — traveling in youth hostels in my late teens. It’s jarring to see them coming from someone ostensibly past forty.
    - boffinAudio 5y ago
      You probably shouldn't have stopped travelling.
goodguyamericun 5y ago
To be fair, if I lived in la, I'd hate America too.
- boffinAudio 5y ago
  LA was home base but I worked and visited most of the USA's states, and I just find American classism to be .. distasteful. And also, endemic no matter where you go.
  - diskzero 5y ago
    Have you not encountered classism in Germany? I am a fluent German speaker who lived in Erfurt, Berlin, Frankfurt and Munich and encountered similar amounts of racism and classism that I have seen in the USA, France and England. The attitudes of some people from the former West to those from the East are shocking. While in Erfurt, I saw the most horrific treatment of immigrants and refugees. I want to make sure that people understand that Germany is not some sort of magical place devoid of serious issues. The country is still suffering from the post-war division and unification, is battling a resurgent fascist political movement and the people are deeply divided over recent waves of refugees in addition to long-standing resentment against much earlier waves of immigration.
    - formerly_proven 5y ago
      > Have you not encountered classism in Germany? Anyone who hasn't has to be blind or something. Germany has a highly stratified society besides the N/S/E/W split.
    - elliotec 5y ago
      Austria and Vienna in particular is incredibly classist and I'm shocked that was even mentioned as something worse about the US. We have greater inequality but culturally it's another world.
teakettle42 5y ago
Vienna is one of the nicest and wealthiest cities in Europe. LA is a car-centric sprawling cesspool. Even for the US, it’s uniquely terrible. If you’d moved to some of the less desirable locations in Europe, you’d probably find them to be a shithole, too. Your lack of perspective (“how much of a shithole the USA really is”) is something I’d only expect from someone half your age on their first backpacking tour of Europe.
- boffinAudio 5y ago
  The Ruhrgebiet is a shithole. But then again, so is Florida. As is North Dakota and most of Utah. Arizona is pretty nice, but I probably think that only because of my Australian skin. The USA is a huge shithole, and if you don't understand why anyone would think that, I have a bridge to sell you .. under which live 12 families, kids and all, who couldn't pay their medical bills after Mom/Grandpa died of cancer. It is a very American thing to get so upset when the country is criticized. Haven't run into that in Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, or Serbia. Okay, the Hungarians can match American nationalism at times, but for the most part you guys have a monopoly on incomprehensibly bone-headed nationalism occluding your view of the wonders of the rest of the world...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - the_lonely_road 5y ago
    Florida is a shithole? You spend too much time on the internet. Florida man is a literal meme that came about because of laws that all state collected data should be publicly available causing the media to get most of its fun crime stories from the very large population there. You realize that a large portion of the richest Americans chose to move there for their retirement? Very large swaths of southern Florida contain some of the most modern and amenity rich sections of the WORLD. Not accessible to the average citizen of course, but then again Luxembourg isn't well known for its accessibility either. We are so much more alike than we are different.
    - 5y ago
_moof 5y ago
I'll chime in here and say I hate the weather in LA, so for me, losing that would be a plus. ;)
bogomipz 5y ago
> "I've completely lost the brain-dead nationalist mentality that had infected me in my earlier life, I've gained Immense amounts of respect for humanity, ..." >"The weather was pretty good in LA. But, still: Americans." The latter statement clearly negates the former. It's fascinating that the irony of those two conflicting statements was completely lost on you. Further your use of a monolithic "Americans" is almost comical. Honestly it sounds as though maybe you didn't get out of LA very much in your 15 years. And as others have also pointed out LA is not at all representative of the rest of the country.
drstewart 5y ago
>I've completely lost the brain-dead nationalist mentality that had infected me in my earlier life Looks like you gained a different one though.
loudthing 5y ago
"and I get to see the USA from outside the decadent, rose-colored bubble from which it is usually experienced." This. As someone who moved to the USA ten years ago, you do not understand "the bubble" Americans live in until you see it from inside and out. People here live on a stage with absolutely no idea that a global audience is watching them. People also can think and say things in absolute confidence which are considered ludicrous by 99% of the rest of the world. I for a long time could not wrap my head around why so many people actively reject the idea of free health care, but it made me realize how little I appreciated when I had it. ... and it's scary how things just seem to be getting worse here with no real hope for improvement without massive reform. Reform that can only happen if something catastrophically bad happens in the near future. edit: and I don't mean this in a critical way, I mean it objectively as possible.
VirusNewbie 5y ago
What is your living situation like? Are you paid well? Do you own a car? Do you support a family? Can you afford childcare? Do you have a housekeeper? How large is your house? I mean, that's great that you can walk to places and eat tasty food but I feel like you left out a large part of what it's like to live somewhere.
nafizh 5y ago
Lets not forget the fact that OP is white. I am not a race baiter, and hate identity politics. But as a non-white person, I would rather live in US than Europe. Forget about the social media takes, and lets talk about ground reality. US (and probably Canada), with all its fault, is one of the few countries on earth, where immigration and immigrants are normal and expected. I can also practice my religion with freedom, unlike most of Europe (UK is one exception with caveats of course) that are hell bent on restricting religious expressions. Lastly, I have to confess, all my takes are also a bit generalized but roughly hits the tone.
- ojl 5y ago
  > I can also practice my religion with freedom, unlike most of Europe (UK is one exception with caveats of course) that are hell bent on restricting religious expressions. In which European countries could you not do that? I’m in Scandinavia and can’t imagine what kind of problem regarding religious practice you would encounter here that you wouldn’t in the US or UK.
- wbsss4412 5y ago
  Have you spent much time in Europe? I’m white myself, but I actually heard the opposite from non white Americans while I was living in Spain(ie they preferred it there)
  - wholien 5y ago
    My non-White friends (not Black) have said US is better than France etc in that regard. This seems like a real phenomenon and worry for people
    - wbsss4412 5y ago
      I don’t have any direct firsthand experience with France, but given the state of politics in France with regards to Islam, that does not surprise me. Similar to the US m, Europe is a fairly large and diverse place, so it’s not like I can paint it with a broad brush.
- 5y ago
shetill 5y ago
How is your social life better, I always thought Americans are very social and easy to befriend? I'm in UK and people are very asocial and difficult to make friends with
dang 5y ago
You started a hellish nationalistic flamewar with this, and then broke HN's guidelines extremely badly all the way through this thread. We ban that sort of account, so please don't post like that again. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting from now on, we'd appreciate it.

dukeyukey 5y ago

How does LA and Vienna compare to Australia?

boffinAudio 5y ago
Australia is a different dimension altogether - you have a lot of the trappings of Western (US/European) culture, but none of the advantages of access to a free market. Personally, I can't stand Australian culture, nor American either these days - which isn't to say I'm launching into an adopted German/Austrian stance, just that .. being away from these lands for a decade at least in each case, I started to see the shine wear off long, long ago. Quality of life is pretty high in Australia, though, I have to admit. Nothing quite like hitting the beach after work - which I did a few times in LA, only to get a horrendous infection. But, still, I am lucky enough to choose my path and I am for sure never going back to Australia to live. Or, LA/USA.
- pc86 5y ago
  I'm not sure if this is intentional but in all your comments you just come across as a hateful, angry person.
  - MagnumOpus 5y ago
    Not to me. He answers the questions honestly, bluntly and without the condescending sandwich feedback technique that many here employ.
    - pc86 5y ago
  - boffinAudio 5y ago
    I definitely am glad I left the USA, and I for sure hate what Americans are doing to the world. I think its time a lot of you left, frankly.
    - dang 5y ago
      Whoa - posts like this will get you banned on HN, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
  - hndude 5y ago
    Very negative, if nothing else. Bit difficult to read their comments when the amount of ego oozing through their words is palpable.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 5y ago
    I'm guessing here, but you're probably American taking offense to someone being frank and direct in their communications. It's a cultural difference.
- 5y ago
et-al 5y ago
Speaking in broad strokes, America is culturally closer to Australia than Vienna.

AdrianB1 5y ago

Just curious: how long since you moved out of USA? How long it took to learn German well enough (in your personal opinion) to integrate well?

mistahenry 5y ago
I moved to Germany as well and self taught German to a high B2 level in the 15 months before moving. That was enough where I was able to be conversationally fluent within 3 months of arrival When I self taught, I primarily used Assimil and Pimsleur daily for the first six months. After completing those programs, I continued with the daily study (that’s the most important part!) and used Easy German the YouTube channel, watched a bunch of German shows, and worked on speaking just by narrating / describing random things and looking up words as needed.
- emj 5y ago
  For me it was most important to get books in my field in german, read them slowly and learn all the buzzterms and experssion. Some books you can read without really understanding them, e.g. some best selling paper back without any weight too it. I haven't worked in Germany but it's a perfect country to learn by reading books
boffinAudio 5y ago
20 years - I left just after 9/11, during which period I witnessed the USA collectively shitting itself, and during which I decided to play no part in the USA's continued economic survival. Far better to have moved to Germany and get things happening in a country not inclined to blood-lust because it was finally attacked the way it had been attacking countries, with impunity, for decades prior. The German culture's proclivity for peace-making, and especially on the subject of forgiveness, far outweighs any of the gung-ho American enthusiasms that might be fashionable .. Honestly, it took me 5 years to feel comfortable speaking fluent German - mostly because Germans just refuse to correct German-speaking expats, instead choosing to switch to their English ..
- Oddskar 5y ago

FPGAhacker 5y ago

I don’t know how much of the US you experienced, but LA is hardly representative of the country.

boffinAudio 5y ago
- exdsq 5y ago
  Does Rust or Go count?
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  > Americans are an unimpressive, vain and ugly people - who admittedly know how to sell things Replace Americans with any other nationality and see how offensive this sounds.
  - boffinAudio 5y ago
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- notch656a 5y ago
  - boffinAudio 5y ago
    - notch656a 5y ago
      Wow, high roller. Talk about vain. I wasn't talking about money.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

syki 5y ago

I grew up in an American colony; the Canal Zone. We had our own schools and were taught U.S. curriculum and about the U.S. I was a rabid nationalist. I had never lived in the U.S. until I went to college but had visited it. Ever since coming to the U.S. I slowly became more and more liberal and less and less nationalistic. The myths I was taught about the U.S. did not withstand my experience of the country. Everything is so spread out and car centric. Our towns and cities are concrete jungles with massive amounts of parking lots that are rarely used. It’s very hard to live where you can walk to a grocery store. We are a nation of building dwellers using giant vehicles to take us from one building to another one. And the food; massive amounts of added sugar and fruit that is tasteless. Addicted to crappy fast food, lonely, and under exercised. Major changes are desperately needed.

hpkuarg 5y ago
Isn't that the plot of Jack Reacher?
rory 5y ago
> It’s very hard to live where you can walk to a grocery store. Very hard seems like an exaggeration. More expensive, maybe, but millions of low-income people also do it. I didn't have a car for most of my twenties, and the majority of my social group didn't either. Living in a more spread out area of the US is a choice-- one that comes with benefits, but still a choice.
- wbsss4412 5y ago
  I think you’re getting a bit too caught up with wether it’s possible to walk to the grocery store for most Americans. I think you can agree that in most places, if you are walking to get groceries, you are either living in a well to do area, or you are forced to because you can’t afford a car, and it isn’t a pleasant experience.
  - rory 5y ago
    "Hard to walk to the grocery store where you live" isn't the same thing as "hard to live where you can walk to the grocery store". If you count entire cities as "well to do areas" then I suppose I agree.

rwev 5y ago

Hearing that you only lived in LA makes your take on the US very partial and flawed. LA has a reputation even within the US of being what you describe as a "shithole." I lived in Germany for years, the former east, and it would be unfair to call Germany a "shithole" based on my own experience in the former Soviet bloc, which has struggled both pre and post reunification due to Communist rule.

severino 5y ago
> I lived in Germany for years, the former east, and it would be unfair to call Germany a "shithole" based on my own experience in the former Soviet bloc, which has struggled both pre and post reunification due to Communist rule. Come on, dude. Germany was "communist" for less than 40 years. You have been "free" and cool for 33 and counting. The wall existed for only 28. Are you going to keep blaming "communists" for the next 400 years? :D
- rwev 5y ago
  The lasting impact and practical effects of the iron curtain on both culture and economic is real. In fact, there is special income tax, Solidaritätszuschlag, that is paid on all income as special assistance in rebuilding and equalizing the former East. And you know nothing about me.
  - severino 5y ago
    > And you know nothing about me. I know you think the east side of Germany is not a good place today because what happened there more than 30 years ago. But you know what? GDR commies said in the late 80s their regime was not a good place either because what happened there 40 years earlier! Sound familiar?

starik36 5y ago

Being able to go on a road trip and end up in a different culture sounds awesome. I do that often in California, but there are only so many places you can go.

mbg721 5y ago
Drive fifty miles out from the suburbs of your hometown, sit down at a diner, and you can have something different. It might end with the cringeyness of the Top Gear guys, but it's there.
Balero 5y ago
> Being able to go on a road trip and end up in a different culture sounds awesome. I do that often in California, but there are only so many places you can go. You can take the train, no need to drive even better!
boffinAudio 5y ago
I absolutely love taking trips around the Balkans, and have been very lucky to have gotten quite familiar with Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia and Kosovo in my recent travels. In a matter of hours, the universal constants (language, food, culture) have been replaced, and there are just so, so many beautiful things to discover in these countries. Words to blow ones minds, history that brings tears with a few simple footsteps...
- teakettle42 5y ago
  > Words to blow ones minds, history that brings tears with a few simple footsteps... These are exactly the kinds of faux profundities I used to hear — and say! — traveling in youth hostels in my late teens. It’s jarring to see them coming from someone ostensibly past forty.
  - boffinAudio 5y ago
    You probably shouldn't have stopped travelling.

goodguyamericun 5y ago

To be fair, if I lived in la, I'd hate America too.

boffinAudio 5y ago
LA was home base but I worked and visited most of the USA's states, and I just find American classism to be .. distasteful. And also, endemic no matter where you go.
- diskzero 5y ago
  Have you not encountered classism in Germany? I am a fluent German speaker who lived in Erfurt, Berlin, Frankfurt and Munich and encountered similar amounts of racism and classism that I have seen in the USA, France and England. The attitudes of some people from the former West to those from the East are shocking. While in Erfurt, I saw the most horrific treatment of immigrants and refugees. I want to make sure that people understand that Germany is not some sort of magical place devoid of serious issues. The country is still suffering from the post-war division and unification, is battling a resurgent fascist political movement and the people are deeply divided over recent waves of refugees in addition to long-standing resentment against much earlier waves of immigration.
  - formerly_proven 5y ago
    > Have you not encountered classism in Germany? Anyone who hasn't has to be blind or something. Germany has a highly stratified society besides the N/S/E/W split.
  - elliotec 5y ago
    Austria and Vienna in particular is incredibly classist and I'm shocked that was even mentioned as something worse about the US. We have greater inequality but culturally it's another world.

teakettle42 5y ago

Vienna is one of the nicest and wealthiest cities in Europe. LA is a car-centric sprawling cesspool. Even for the US, it’s uniquely terrible. If you’d moved to some of the less desirable locations in Europe, you’d probably find them to be a shithole, too. Your lack of perspective (“how much of a shithole the USA really is”) is something I’d only expect from someone half your age on their first backpacking tour of Europe.

boffinAudio 5y ago
The Ruhrgebiet is a shithole. But then again, so is Florida. As is North Dakota and most of Utah. Arizona is pretty nice, but I probably think that only because of my Australian skin. The USA is a huge shithole, and if you don't understand why anyone would think that, I have a bridge to sell you .. under which live 12 families, kids and all, who couldn't pay their medical bills after Mom/Grandpa died of cancer. It is a very American thing to get so upset when the country is criticized. Haven't run into that in Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, or Serbia. Okay, the Hungarians can match American nationalism at times, but for the most part you guys have a monopoly on incomprehensibly bone-headed nationalism occluding your view of the wonders of the rest of the world...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- the_lonely_road 5y ago
  Florida is a shithole? You spend too much time on the internet. Florida man is a literal meme that came about because of laws that all state collected data should be publicly available causing the media to get most of its fun crime stories from the very large population there. You realize that a large portion of the richest Americans chose to move there for their retirement? Very large swaths of southern Florida contain some of the most modern and amenity rich sections of the WORLD. Not accessible to the average citizen of course, but then again Luxembourg isn't well known for its accessibility either. We are so much more alike than we are different.
  - 5y ago

_moof 5y ago

I'll chime in here and say I hate the weather in LA, so for me, losing that would be a plus. ;)

bogomipz 5y ago

> "I've completely lost the brain-dead nationalist mentality that had infected me in my earlier life, I've gained Immense amounts of respect for humanity, ..." >"The weather was pretty good in LA. But, still: Americans." The latter statement clearly negates the former. It's fascinating that the irony of those two conflicting statements was completely lost on you. Further your use of a monolithic "Americans" is almost comical. Honestly it sounds as though maybe you didn't get out of LA very much in your 15 years. And as others have also pointed out LA is not at all representative of the rest of the country.

drstewart 5y ago

>I've completely lost the brain-dead nationalist mentality that had infected me in my earlier life Looks like you gained a different one though.

loudthing 5y ago

"and I get to see the USA from outside the decadent, rose-colored bubble from which it is usually experienced." This. As someone who moved to the USA ten years ago, you do not understand "the bubble" Americans live in until you see it from inside and out. People here live on a stage with absolutely no idea that a global audience is watching them. People also can think and say things in absolute confidence which are considered ludicrous by 99% of the rest of the world. I for a long time could not wrap my head around why so many people actively reject the idea of free health care, but it made me realize how little I appreciated when I had it. ... and it's scary how things just seem to be getting worse here with no real hope for improvement without massive reform. Reform that can only happen if something catastrophically bad happens in the near future. edit: and I don't mean this in a critical way, I mean it objectively as possible.

VirusNewbie 5y ago

What is your living situation like? Are you paid well? Do you own a car? Do you support a family? Can you afford childcare? Do you have a housekeeper? How large is your house? I mean, that's great that you can walk to places and eat tasty food but I feel like you left out a large part of what it's like to live somewhere.

nafizh 5y ago

Lets not forget the fact that OP is white. I am not a race baiter, and hate identity politics. But as a non-white person, I would rather live in US than Europe. Forget about the social media takes, and lets talk about ground reality. US (and probably Canada), with all its fault, is one of the few countries on earth, where immigration and immigrants are normal and expected. I can also practice my religion with freedom, unlike most of Europe (UK is one exception with caveats of course) that are hell bent on restricting religious expressions. Lastly, I have to confess, all my takes are also a bit generalized but roughly hits the tone.

ojl 5y ago
> I can also practice my religion with freedom, unlike most of Europe (UK is one exception with caveats of course) that are hell bent on restricting religious expressions. In which European countries could you not do that? I’m in Scandinavia and can’t imagine what kind of problem regarding religious practice you would encounter here that you wouldn’t in the US or UK.
wbsss4412 5y ago
Have you spent much time in Europe? I’m white myself, but I actually heard the opposite from non white Americans while I was living in Spain(ie they preferred it there)
- wholien 5y ago
  My non-White friends (not Black) have said US is better than France etc in that regard. This seems like a real phenomenon and worry for people
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
    I don’t have any direct firsthand experience with France, but given the state of politics in France with regards to Islam, that does not surprise me. Similar to the US m, Europe is a fairly large and diverse place, so it’s not like I can paint it with a broad brush.
5y ago

shetill 5y ago

How is your social life better, I always thought Americans are very social and easy to befriend? I'm in UK and people are very asocial and difficult to make friends with

dang 5y ago

You started a hellish nationalistic flamewar with this, and then broke HN's guidelines extremely badly all the way through this thread. We ban that sort of account, so please don't post like that again. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting from now on, we'd appreciate it.