6 ms·

Yet again mosaic blur's inferiority to opaque rectangle is demonstrated.

by RunSet 5y ago

steerablesafe 5y ago
More generally if you want to redact pixels, then don't replace them with information that depend on those pixel values. It doesn't necessarily mean a black rectangle, but that's certainly simple and it works.
- mannykannot 5y ago
  I’m slightly curious as to how, in these cases, someone came to decide that blurring was the right way to do it. It seems unlikely that they never thought of simply blacking/ blanking the text, but if so, then blurring must have seemed preferable. My best guess is that, having seen blurring of faces (which is arguably OK when one merely wants to avoid casual attempts at identification, while retaining a ‘natural’ look), they assumed this was the proper way to do it in all cases.
  - jerf 5y ago
    I think it leaves the visual interest behind. Black bars are both boring and jarring. It's aesthetically displeasing on many levels. Unfortunately, part of "leaving the visual interest behind" is precisely "pixels that depend on their real underlying values"....
    - josefx 5y ago
      You could use filler text like lorem ipsum to keep a natural appearance without exposing any information. Of course that is a bit more work than just dropping a blur effect on an existing document and exporting it as PDF.
  - kqr 5y ago
    Retaining a "natural" look is phrased well. I think that's all behind the decision to infrasample (opposite of supersample?) parts of an image.
    - anon_123g987 5y ago
      The opposite of supersample would be subsample.
      - MauranKilom 5y ago
        Or just "undersample".
sumtechguy 5y ago
Is anyone using this sort of idea on upscaling videos?
- archi42 5y ago
  AI upscaling? Yes. Seems like some fans used AI upscaling for the older Star Gate SG-1 seasons, since these were direct-to-VHS and hence shot on low quality media (by now there are official bluray releases which are also somehow upscaled, but I was told those would be of inferior quality compared to the fan effort). Not sure if those efforts worked on a frame-by-frame basis or used information across frames. [edit] here is a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDss3BfsITs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDss3BfsITs [/edit]
  - fy20 5y ago
    And to think we all laughed at CSI enhancing CCTV images...
    - josefx 5y ago
      Luckily we can track the amount of lawsuits filled against Ryan Gosling to see if the police started to submit AI up scaled images as evidence. https://petapixel.com/2020/08/17/gigapixel-ai-accidentally-added-ryan-goslings-face-to-this-photo/ https://petapixel.com/2020/08/17/gigapixel-ai-accidentally-a...
  - josefx 5y ago
    The remastered edition of Command and Conquer also used AI up scaling for the cut scenes. They lost the original recordings and the videos from the PlayStation release were the best they could track down. The result is far from perfect but probably the best one could hope for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikJLYYTrIxs&t=689s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikJLYYTrIxs&t=689s. I previously replied to the wrong comment on accident.
Rygian 5y ago
I recently made use of my right to access personal information from someone who had sent me unsolicited marketing material. The person who fulfilled my request sent me a PDF copy of their full customer list, where all entries had been blacked out except mine. As you may anticipate, that blacking out was simply a black box drawn on top of the actual data. It took me all of 3 seconds to select all, copy, then paste in a word processor to confirm that the file contained personal data from hundreds of other individuals.
- danuker 5y ago
  Congrats! You now have a data leak to report to the GDPR authority of your state, in addition to the unsolicited marketing.
- thrashh 5y ago
  About 10 years ago or something, someone in the US government made this mistake and it was all over the news. That’s when a redaction tool suddenly appeared in Adobe Acrobat.
  - rzzzt 5y ago
    I thought at that point they started to print out the redacted versions and scanned them again.
Natsu 5y ago
Nah, better to replace it with a mosaic blur of unrelated text. So when they unblur it to hack you they find a rude messages instead of the actual text.
Scoundreller 5y ago
Half of the fun of redacted rectangles is figuring out which letters/words can fit into that rectangle. Movable type makes things even easier. I once read a gov document that opaque squared the pronouns, but it was clearly about a she/her!
MarkLowenstein 5y ago
Have you ever hand-written a word but want to hide it? One cross-out line doesn't do the trick. In fact, a full minute of trying to hide it with an ugly darkened-in box usually doesn't even do it. But if you just write a couple random letters over each existing one, people have basically no ability to recognize your original word. That is my one insight. Take it for what it's worth.

Yet again mosaic blur's inferiority to opaque rectangle is demonstrated.

by RunSet 5y ago

Yet again mosaic blur's inferiority to opaque rectangle is demonstrated.

More generally if you want to redact pixels, then don't replace them with information that depend on those pixel values. It doesn't necessarily mean a black rectangle, but that's certainly simple and it works.

mannykannot 5y ago
I’m slightly curious as to how, in these cases, someone came to decide that blurring was the right way to do it. It seems unlikely that they never thought of simply blacking/ blanking the text, but if so, then blurring must have seemed preferable. My best guess is that, having seen blurring of faces (which is arguably OK when one merely wants to avoid casual attempts at identification, while retaining a ‘natural’ look), they assumed this was the proper way to do it in all cases.
- jerf 5y ago
  I think it leaves the visual interest behind. Black bars are both boring and jarring. It's aesthetically displeasing on many levels. Unfortunately, part of "leaving the visual interest behind" is precisely "pixels that depend on their real underlying values"....
  - josefx 5y ago
    You could use filler text like lorem ipsum to keep a natural appearance without exposing any information. Of course that is a bit more work than just dropping a blur effect on an existing document and exporting it as PDF.
- kqr 5y ago
  Retaining a "natural" look is phrased well. I think that's all behind the decision to infrasample (opposite of supersample?) parts of an image.
  - anon_123g987 5y ago
    The opposite of supersample would be subsample.
    - MauranKilom 5y ago
      Or just "undersample".

sumtechguy 5y ago

Is anyone using this sort of idea on upscaling videos?

archi42 5y ago
AI upscaling? Yes. Seems like some fans used AI upscaling for the older Star Gate SG-1 seasons, since these were direct-to-VHS and hence shot on low quality media (by now there are official bluray releases which are also somehow upscaled, but I was told those would be of inferior quality compared to the fan effort). Not sure if those efforts worked on a frame-by-frame basis or used information across frames. [edit] here is a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDss3BfsITs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDss3BfsITs [/edit]
- fy20 5y ago
  And to think we all laughed at CSI enhancing CCTV images...
  - josefx 5y ago
    Luckily we can track the amount of lawsuits filled against Ryan Gosling to see if the police started to submit AI up scaled images as evidence. https://petapixel.com/2020/08/17/gigapixel-ai-accidentally-added-ryan-goslings-face-to-this-photo/ https://petapixel.com/2020/08/17/gigapixel-ai-accidentally-a...
- josefx 5y ago
  The remastered edition of Command and Conquer also used AI up scaling for the cut scenes. They lost the original recordings and the videos from the PlayStation release were the best they could track down. The result is far from perfect but probably the best one could hope for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikJLYYTrIxs&t=689s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikJLYYTrIxs&t=689s. I previously replied to the wrong comment on accident.

Rygian 5y ago

I recently made use of my right to access personal information from someone who had sent me unsolicited marketing material. The person who fulfilled my request sent me a PDF copy of their full customer list, where all entries had been blacked out except mine. As you may anticipate, that blacking out was simply a black box drawn on top of the actual data. It took me all of 3 seconds to select all, copy, then paste in a word processor to confirm that the file contained personal data from hundreds of other individuals.

danuker 5y ago
Congrats! You now have a data leak to report to the GDPR authority of your state, in addition to the unsolicited marketing.
thrashh 5y ago
About 10 years ago or something, someone in the US government made this mistake and it was all over the news. That’s when a redaction tool suddenly appeared in Adobe Acrobat.
- rzzzt 5y ago
  I thought at that point they started to print out the redacted versions and scanned them again.

Natsu 5y ago

Nah, better to replace it with a mosaic blur of unrelated text. So when they unblur it to hack you they find a rude messages instead of the actual text.

Scoundreller 5y ago

Half of the fun of redacted rectangles is figuring out which letters/words can fit into that rectangle. Movable type makes things even easier. I once read a gov document that opaque squared the pronouns, but it was clearly about a she/her!

MarkLowenstein 5y ago

Have you ever hand-written a word but want to hide it? One cross-out line doesn't do the trick. In fact, a full minute of trying to hide it with an ugly darkened-in box usually doesn't even do it. But if you just write a couple random letters over each existing one, people have basically no ability to recognize your original word. That is my one insight. Take it for what it's worth.