8 ms·

there's a small startup called Netflix that does some internet thing with it

by cerved 5y ago

andai 5y ago
Also WhatsApp, Yahoo!, and many others [1] including Sony (playstation's OS), Apple (macOS) and Microsoft (Azure). https://freebsdfoundation.org/freebsd/ https://freebsdfoundation.org/freebsd/
- edgyquant 5y ago
  MacOS isn’t FreeBSD. I believe they forked the FreeBSD userland a long time ago but used GNU for their shell and toolchain (and the kernel etc is completely different.)
  - nix23 5y ago
    MacOS is mostly a FreeBSD-Kernel plus a MACH-Kernel together called XNU, and most "core"-utils are still from FreeBSD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)#/media/File:Diagram_of_Mac_OS_X_architecture.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)#/med...
    - oblio 5y ago
      And those core utils are generally seen as a hindrance by developers using it. Plus how long did MacOS diverge from FreeBSD? 20+ years ago? Does it even resemble current FreeBSD enough that this observation makes sense, except from a software history perspective? Edit: Actually, considering that the divergence started with NextStep in 1988, from 4.3 BSD and not FreeBSD, and that Unix was created in 1969, this becomes a bit like comparing Unix 1969 to Linux 1999... so not really relevant anymore.
      - ayushnix 5y ago
        > Plus how long did MacOS diverge from FreeBSD? 20+ years ago? Does it even resemble current FreeBSD enough that this observation makes sense, except from a software history perspective? You'll always find people who'll say that Android and ChromeOS are Linux distributions and MacOS is based on FreeBSD. I guess it makes them feel good.
        nix23 5y ago
        >Android and ChromeOS are Linux distributions They are, but they are not GNU/Linux...Alpine is not Gnu/Linux too, but BusyBox/musl/Linux, maybe it makes others sad that you don't know the difference. >MacOS is based on FreeBSD. I guess it makes them feel good For years exactly that was written on Apples own macOSX page, but you know it better right? https://web.archive.org/web/20090207062005/https://www.apple.com/server/macosx/technology/unix.html https://web.archive.org/web/20090207062005/https://www.apple... >>Mac OS X Server is based largely on the FreeBSD distribution and includes the latest advances from this development community. https://web.archive.org/web/20090205151917/http://images.apple.com/server/macosx/docs/L355782B_SvrFund_TB.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20090205151917/http://images.app... >> Kernel based on FreeBSD and Mach 3.0 https://web.archive.org/web/20081230112742/http://images.apple.com/macosx/pdf/L355785C_UNIX_TB.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20081230112742/http://images.app... >>The Mac OS X kernel at the heart of Darwin is based on FreeBSD 5 and Mach 3.0 Have Fun :)
        ayushnix 5y ago
        > Alpine is not Gnu/Linux too, but BusyBox/musl/Linux, maybe it makes others sad that you don't know the difference. I'm more concerned with the practical significance of calling Android or ChromeOS a Linux distribution than being pedantic for the history books. Sure, Alpine doesn't use the usual userland you'll find on most Linux distributions but it isn't an alien experience and you can use it mostly like any other Linux distribution out there. You'll still find a POSIX shell and a package manager to install packages. There's Xorg or Wayland for the GUI and you'll find familiar desktop environments and window managers. Unlike Android, you won't find absence of root access on Alpine. There's no restriction on placement of data on directories like /usr and /var. You won't find dozens of UIDs for different processes running at the same time on a single user system. You can't just slap Android on any hardware x86_64 hardware you want and expect it to work fine. Hell, you can't even do that on ARM devices if you're not using out-of-tree patches and firmware blobs. The bluetooth and audio stack on Android is completely different than what you'll use on any Linux distribution. So yeah, if we're being pedantic, sure, Android is a Linux distribution because it uses the Linux kernel. Good luck using it like a typical Linux distribution though. > For years exactly that was written on Apples own macOSX page, but you know it better right? What I wrote above. Sure, pages written decades ago indicate that the Apple used FreeBSD as its base for its kernel but I doubt their kernel is anything close to upstream FreeBSD at this point. The same goes for their userland and graphics stack. Would you call OrbisOS, used by PS4, a distribution of FreeBSD? Can you do anything meaningful with it like you can with FreeBSD?
      - nix23 5y ago
        >And those core utils are generally seen as a hindrance by developers using it. I don't like Mac nor do i like gnu-coreutil...but that's my personal taste, and not my problem. >Plus how long did MacOS diverge from FreeBSD? 20+ years ago? Does it even resemble current FreeBSD enough that this observation makes sense, except from a software history perspective? I said what kernel it uses (FreeBSD and Mach) and i don't know if Apple re-bases their code on current FreeBSD-Code...you can look that for for yourself. Don't start twisting facts because you didn't knew better, at least now you know.
        oblio 5y ago
        > I don't like Mac nor do i like gnu-coreutil...but that's my personal taste, and not my problem. Well, it's not your problem, but when millions of developers like GNU coreutils over BSD coreutils, then it kind of becomes everyone's problem :-) There's a reason GNU became popular when there were other tools available before it appeared.
        nix23 5y ago
        >but when millions of developers like GNU coreutils over BSD coreutils I don't care if they cannot install Gnu/Linux on their machine, but being forced to use a proprietary system like Mac. Not my problem. Don't want bsd-core-utils? Don't buy apple, it's so easy. >There's a reason GNU became popular when there were other tools available before it appeared. That's not the reason and you know it, stop with that half-knowledge you think you have. Something to read for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_Laboratories,_Inc._v._Berkeley_Software_Design,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_Laboratories,_Inc.....
        oblio 5y ago
        > Don't buy apple, it's so easy. And yet they do, by the millions :-) Anyway, I don't really have a bone to pick on this topic. However: > That's not the reason and you know it, stop with that half-knowledge you think you have. Yes, it is. They were full of features and that's why they became popular. Please enlighten us with your rest-of-half-knowledge, otherwise.
    - andai 5y ago
      https://wiki.freebsd.org/Myths#FreeBSD_is_Just_macOS_Without_the_Good_Bits https://wiki.freebsd.org/Myths#FreeBSD_is_Just_macOS_Without... >FreeBSD is Just macOS Without the Good Bits >This is as much a myth about macOS as about FreeBSD; that macOS is just FreeBSD with a pretty GUI. The two operating systems do share a lot of code, for example most userland utilities and the C library on macOS are derived from FreeBSD versions. Some of this code flow works in the other direction, for example FreeBSD 9.1 and later include a C++ stack and compiler that were originally developed for macOS, with major parts of the work done by Apple employees. Other parts are very different. >Darwin - which consists of the XNU kernel, IOkit (a driver model), and POSIX compatibility via a BSD compatibility layer - makes up part of macOS (as well as iOS, tvOS, and others) includes a few subsystems (such as the VFS, process model, and network implementation) from (older versions of) FreeBSD, but is mostly an independent implementation. The similarities in the userland, however, make it much easier to port macOS code to FreeBSD than any other system - partially because a lot of command-line utilities were imported along with the BSD bits from FreeBSD. For example, both libdispatch (Grand Central Dispatch in Apple's marketing) and libc++ were written for macOS and worked on FreeBSD before any other OS. >Apple's kernel programming guide goes into more extensive detail about the similarities and differences. https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/KernelProgramming/BSD/BSD.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Da... >The BSD portion of the OS X kernel is derived primarily from FreeBSD, a version of 4.4BSD that offers advanced networking, performance, security, and compatibility features. BSD variants in general are derived (sometimes indirectly) from 4.4BSD-Lite Release 2 from the Computer Systems Research Group (CSRG) at the University of California at Berkeley.
belter 5y ago
Yeah, they are small but growing... "Serving Netflix Video at 400Gb/s on FreeBSD" https://people.freebsd.org/~gallatin/talks/euro2021.pdf https://people.freebsd.org/~gallatin/talks/euro2021.pdf

there's a small startup called Netflix that does some internet thing with it

by cerved 5y ago

there's a small startup called Netflix that does some internet thing with it

Also WhatsApp, Yahoo!, and many others [1] including Sony (playstation's OS), Apple (macOS) and Microsoft (Azure). https://freebsdfoundation.org/freebsd/ https://freebsdfoundation.org/freebsd/

edgyquant 5y ago
MacOS isn’t FreeBSD. I believe they forked the FreeBSD userland a long time ago but used GNU for their shell and toolchain (and the kernel etc is completely different.)
- nix23 5y ago
  MacOS is mostly a FreeBSD-Kernel plus a MACH-Kernel together called XNU, and most "core"-utils are still from FreeBSD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)#/media/File:Diagram_of_Mac_OS_X_architecture.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)#/med...
  - oblio 5y ago
    And those core utils are generally seen as a hindrance by developers using it. Plus how long did MacOS diverge from FreeBSD? 20+ years ago? Does it even resemble current FreeBSD enough that this observation makes sense, except from a software history perspective? Edit: Actually, considering that the divergence started with NextStep in 1988, from 4.3 BSD and not FreeBSD, and that Unix was created in 1969, this becomes a bit like comparing Unix 1969 to Linux 1999... so not really relevant anymore.
    - ayushnix 5y ago
      > Plus how long did MacOS diverge from FreeBSD? 20+ years ago? Does it even resemble current FreeBSD enough that this observation makes sense, except from a software history perspective? You'll always find people who'll say that Android and ChromeOS are Linux distributions and MacOS is based on FreeBSD. I guess it makes them feel good.
      - nix23 5y ago
        >Android and ChromeOS are Linux distributions They are, but they are not GNU/Linux...Alpine is not Gnu/Linux too, but BusyBox/musl/Linux, maybe it makes others sad that you don't know the difference. >MacOS is based on FreeBSD. I guess it makes them feel good For years exactly that was written on Apples own macOSX page, but you know it better right? https://web.archive.org/web/20090207062005/https://www.apple.com/server/macosx/technology/unix.html https://web.archive.org/web/20090207062005/https://www.apple... >>Mac OS X Server is based largely on the FreeBSD distribution and includes the latest advances from this development community. https://web.archive.org/web/20090205151917/http://images.apple.com/server/macosx/docs/L355782B_SvrFund_TB.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20090205151917/http://images.app... >> Kernel based on FreeBSD and Mach 3.0 https://web.archive.org/web/20081230112742/http://images.apple.com/macosx/pdf/L355785C_UNIX_TB.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20081230112742/http://images.app... >>The Mac OS X kernel at the heart of Darwin is based on FreeBSD 5 and Mach 3.0 Have Fun :)
        ayushnix 5y ago
        > Alpine is not Gnu/Linux too, but BusyBox/musl/Linux, maybe it makes others sad that you don't know the difference. I'm more concerned with the practical significance of calling Android or ChromeOS a Linux distribution than being pedantic for the history books. Sure, Alpine doesn't use the usual userland you'll find on most Linux distributions but it isn't an alien experience and you can use it mostly like any other Linux distribution out there. You'll still find a POSIX shell and a package manager to install packages. There's Xorg or Wayland for the GUI and you'll find familiar desktop environments and window managers. Unlike Android, you won't find absence of root access on Alpine. There's no restriction on placement of data on directories like /usr and /var. You won't find dozens of UIDs for different processes running at the same time on a single user system. You can't just slap Android on any hardware x86_64 hardware you want and expect it to work fine. Hell, you can't even do that on ARM devices if you're not using out-of-tree patches and firmware blobs. The bluetooth and audio stack on Android is completely different than what you'll use on any Linux distribution. So yeah, if we're being pedantic, sure, Android is a Linux distribution because it uses the Linux kernel. Good luck using it like a typical Linux distribution though. > For years exactly that was written on Apples own macOSX page, but you know it better right? What I wrote above. Sure, pages written decades ago indicate that the Apple used FreeBSD as its base for its kernel but I doubt their kernel is anything close to upstream FreeBSD at this point. The same goes for their userland and graphics stack. Would you call OrbisOS, used by PS4, a distribution of FreeBSD? Can you do anything meaningful with it like you can with FreeBSD?
    - nix23 5y ago
      >And those core utils are generally seen as a hindrance by developers using it. I don't like Mac nor do i like gnu-coreutil...but that's my personal taste, and not my problem. >Plus how long did MacOS diverge from FreeBSD? 20+ years ago? Does it even resemble current FreeBSD enough that this observation makes sense, except from a software history perspective? I said what kernel it uses (FreeBSD and Mach) and i don't know if Apple re-bases their code on current FreeBSD-Code...you can look that for for yourself. Don't start twisting facts because you didn't knew better, at least now you know.
      - oblio 5y ago
        > I don't like Mac nor do i like gnu-coreutil...but that's my personal taste, and not my problem. Well, it's not your problem, but when millions of developers like GNU coreutils over BSD coreutils, then it kind of becomes everyone's problem :-) There's a reason GNU became popular when there were other tools available before it appeared.
        nix23 5y ago
        >but when millions of developers like GNU coreutils over BSD coreutils I don't care if they cannot install Gnu/Linux on their machine, but being forced to use a proprietary system like Mac. Not my problem. Don't want bsd-core-utils? Don't buy apple, it's so easy. >There's a reason GNU became popular when there were other tools available before it appeared. That's not the reason and you know it, stop with that half-knowledge you think you have. Something to read for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_Laboratories,_Inc._v._Berkeley_Software_Design,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_Laboratories,_Inc.....
        oblio 5y ago
        > Don't buy apple, it's so easy. And yet they do, by the millions :-) Anyway, I don't really have a bone to pick on this topic. However: > That's not the reason and you know it, stop with that half-knowledge you think you have. Yes, it is. They were full of features and that's why they became popular. Please enlighten us with your rest-of-half-knowledge, otherwise.
  - andai 5y ago
    https://wiki.freebsd.org/Myths#FreeBSD_is_Just_macOS_Without_the_Good_Bits https://wiki.freebsd.org/Myths#FreeBSD_is_Just_macOS_Without... >FreeBSD is Just macOS Without the Good Bits >This is as much a myth about macOS as about FreeBSD; that macOS is just FreeBSD with a pretty GUI. The two operating systems do share a lot of code, for example most userland utilities and the C library on macOS are derived from FreeBSD versions. Some of this code flow works in the other direction, for example FreeBSD 9.1 and later include a C++ stack and compiler that were originally developed for macOS, with major parts of the work done by Apple employees. Other parts are very different. >Darwin - which consists of the XNU kernel, IOkit (a driver model), and POSIX compatibility via a BSD compatibility layer - makes up part of macOS (as well as iOS, tvOS, and others) includes a few subsystems (such as the VFS, process model, and network implementation) from (older versions of) FreeBSD, but is mostly an independent implementation. The similarities in the userland, however, make it much easier to port macOS code to FreeBSD than any other system - partially because a lot of command-line utilities were imported along with the BSD bits from FreeBSD. For example, both libdispatch (Grand Central Dispatch in Apple's marketing) and libc++ were written for macOS and worked on FreeBSD before any other OS. >Apple's kernel programming guide goes into more extensive detail about the similarities and differences. https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/KernelProgramming/BSD/BSD.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Da... >The BSD portion of the OS X kernel is derived primarily from FreeBSD, a version of 4.4BSD that offers advanced networking, performance, security, and compatibility features. BSD variants in general are derived (sometimes indirectly) from 4.4BSD-Lite Release 2 from the Computer Systems Research Group (CSRG) at the University of California at Berkeley.

belter 5y ago

Yeah, they are small but growing... "Serving Netflix Video at 400Gb/s on FreeBSD" https://people.freebsd.org/~gallatin/talks/euro2021.pdf https://people.freebsd.org/~gallatin/talks/euro2021.pdf