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Conclusion: Natural immunity with or without the vaccine provides strong protection against hospitalization. There wasn't much difference between the two. This

by onnnon 5y ago

Conclusion: Natural immunity with or without the vaccine provides strong protection against hospitalization. There wasn't much difference between the two. This study took place during Delta (May–November 2021).

rsfern 5y ago
They also found that pre-delta (when a lot of the US was getting their primary series) vaccine immunity was more protective against hospitalization with alpha or whatever it was at the time in the US I’m not sure if there is a good study that can distinguish the change point as due to waning immunity from the vaccines or if it’s because of vaccine escape, or if infection-mediated immunity from delta is just better… The data I’ve seen from omicron suggest that a primary vaccine series offers about equal protection as infection with delta, FWIW
JPKab 5y ago
As a person who was infected in February 2021, before I was eligible to get vaccinated, we now know that there was minimal to zero medical benefit to me getting this vaccine. I had a family tragedy with the vaccine in May that I commented on at the time here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27467803 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27467803 The tragedy detailed above made me realize that there was a risk, albeit small, to getting vaccinated. If I didn't have natural immunity, the risk was worth it. But since I did, I chose to not get vaccinated, only after weeks of research and poring through large N studies. Here is a comment I made 5 months ago that got downvoted for citing multiple studies that had informed my decision: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28170099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28170099 The arrogant, smug hive minders deemed it misinformation. I was harassed by coworkers for not having the shot, and they dismissed my claim of natural immunity as a conspiracy theory. Some of them deliberately selected a restaurant that required proof of vaccination to rub it in my face. They knew I had recovered in February. They knew my family was grieving over my mother-in-law (she lived with my wife and I for ten years until 2 years before her death) but they didn't care. They dehumanized me. I then had to face a federal government mandate for a shot I wouldn't benefit from. I am beyond bitter. They were wrong. The feds were wrong. Most HNers we're wrong. The censors deleting my posts were wrong. And I know I will never get an apology. I now have attitudes towards centralized authority I never had before. All due to smug, self righteous people throwing away their principles and cheering on as the US government threatened my livelihood as a cudgel to violate my rights. To those of you who went along, you are cowards, and I hope you reconsider your arrogance in the future.
- elil17 5y ago
  > we now know that there was minimal to zero medical benefit to me getting this vaccine This is not true and this very study shows that. The vaccine reduces the chance that you catch COVID and spread it to others.
  - yucky 5y ago
    This doesn't appear to be the case with Omicron. It seems like everyone who has gotten it in the last couple of months has been vaccinated. At least half the people I know (almost all of which are vaccinated) have gotten it in this wave. I only knew 2 people that got it in the 1st wave before vaccines existed. I know it's more contagious now, but most people have had this same experience.
    - skyde 5y ago
      you should read what “relative risk” mean. if of 100 people 90 are vaccinated and your hospitalization number is 6 unvaccinated and 44 vaccinated this would still mean risk is higher for unvaccinated (6/10) compared to vaccinated (44/90). That’s also why your anecdote are useless and not science
      - hammock 5y ago
        I suggest you familiarize yourself with the latest science/data which show that relative risk of death is higher for vaccinated and unboosted than it is for unvaccinated. Scotland (14 per 100k vs 10 per 100k): https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11318/22-01-26-covid19-winter_publication_report.pdf https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11318/22-01-26-covid... Britain: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1049160/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-3-2022.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
        skyde 5y ago
        thanks for sharing i will take a look. I only looked at the latest data for USA and Canada so far and they both looked much better for vaccinated people. Why do you think scotland and Britain are different?
elil17 5y ago
How is this a helpful conclusion? Getting disease-induced immunity only happens after you get a disease that will quite possibly kill or, if you’re younger, permanently disable you. Regular vaccination poses no such risk. The take home message should be clear: getting a vaccine is essential to staying safe, especially if you haven’t previously been infected. Even if you have been previously infected, the vaccine will reduce the chance that you get sick and pass the disease on to others.
- peteradio 5y ago
  > the vaccine will reduce the chance that you get sick and pass the disease on to others. You cannot treat that as a forgone conclusion that is the whole point of studies like this. As this study states, hazard ratio does not depend on vaccination after someone has recovered.
- cdolan 5y ago
  Where does it say the vaccine has a measurable effect upon stopping transmission? Recent news would say the exact opposite statement
  - maxerickson 5y ago
    The data is super thin on that (we don't know very much about people that are getting sick and not seeking care). This article discusses an analysis of household transmission in Denmark. It was much higher in households with Omicron cases, but lower (56% lower) among boosted individuals compared to two dose vaccination: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/omicron-cannot-escape-t-cells-boosters-protect-households-omicron-2021-12-29/ https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/... That's a pretty big reduction.
- parkingrift 5y ago
  Helpful? This is a scientific study.

by onnnon 5y ago

rsfern 5y ago

They also found that pre-delta (when a lot of the US was getting their primary series) vaccine immunity was more protective against hospitalization with alpha or whatever it was at the time in the US I’m not sure if there is a good study that can distinguish the change point as due to waning immunity from the vaccines or if it’s because of vaccine escape, or if infection-mediated immunity from delta is just better… The data I’ve seen from omicron suggest that a primary vaccine series offers about equal protection as infection with delta, FWIW

JPKab 5y ago

As a person who was infected in February 2021, before I was eligible to get vaccinated, we now know that there was minimal to zero medical benefit to me getting this vaccine. I had a family tragedy with the vaccine in May that I commented on at the time here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27467803 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27467803 The tragedy detailed above made me realize that there was a risk, albeit small, to getting vaccinated. If I didn't have natural immunity, the risk was worth it. But since I did, I chose to not get vaccinated, only after weeks of research and poring through large N studies. Here is a comment I made 5 months ago that got downvoted for citing multiple studies that had informed my decision: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28170099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28170099 The arrogant, smug hive minders deemed it misinformation. I was harassed by coworkers for not having the shot, and they dismissed my claim of natural immunity as a conspiracy theory. Some of them deliberately selected a restaurant that required proof of vaccination to rub it in my face. They knew I had recovered in February. They knew my family was grieving over my mother-in-law (she lived with my wife and I for ten years until 2 years before her death) but they didn't care. They dehumanized me. I then had to face a federal government mandate for a shot I wouldn't benefit from. I am beyond bitter. They were wrong. The feds were wrong. Most HNers we're wrong. The censors deleting my posts were wrong. And I know I will never get an apology. I now have attitudes towards centralized authority I never had before. All due to smug, self righteous people throwing away their principles and cheering on as the US government threatened my livelihood as a cudgel to violate my rights. To those of you who went along, you are cowards, and I hope you reconsider your arrogance in the future.

elil17 5y ago
> we now know that there was minimal to zero medical benefit to me getting this vaccine This is not true and this very study shows that. The vaccine reduces the chance that you catch COVID and spread it to others.
- yucky 5y ago
  This doesn't appear to be the case with Omicron. It seems like everyone who has gotten it in the last couple of months has been vaccinated. At least half the people I know (almost all of which are vaccinated) have gotten it in this wave. I only knew 2 people that got it in the 1st wave before vaccines existed. I know it's more contagious now, but most people have had this same experience.
  - skyde 5y ago
    you should read what “relative risk” mean. if of 100 people 90 are vaccinated and your hospitalization number is 6 unvaccinated and 44 vaccinated this would still mean risk is higher for unvaccinated (6/10) compared to vaccinated (44/90). That’s also why your anecdote are useless and not science
    - hammock 5y ago
      I suggest you familiarize yourself with the latest science/data which show that relative risk of death is higher for vaccinated and unboosted than it is for unvaccinated. Scotland (14 per 100k vs 10 per 100k): https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11318/22-01-26-covid19-winter_publication_report.pdf https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11318/22-01-26-covid... Britain: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1049160/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-3-2022.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
      - skyde 5y ago
        thanks for sharing i will take a look. I only looked at the latest data for USA and Canada so far and they both looked much better for vaccinated people. Why do you think scotland and Britain are different?

elil17 5y ago

How is this a helpful conclusion? Getting disease-induced immunity only happens after you get a disease that will quite possibly kill or, if you’re younger, permanently disable you. Regular vaccination poses no such risk. The take home message should be clear: getting a vaccine is essential to staying safe, especially if you haven’t previously been infected. Even if you have been previously infected, the vaccine will reduce the chance that you get sick and pass the disease on to others.

peteradio 5y ago
> the vaccine will reduce the chance that you get sick and pass the disease on to others. You cannot treat that as a forgone conclusion that is the whole point of studies like this. As this study states, hazard ratio does not depend on vaccination after someone has recovered.
cdolan 5y ago
Where does it say the vaccine has a measurable effect upon stopping transmission? Recent news would say the exact opposite statement
- maxerickson 5y ago
  The data is super thin on that (we don't know very much about people that are getting sick and not seeking care). This article discusses an analysis of household transmission in Denmark. It was much higher in households with Omicron cases, but lower (56% lower) among boosted individuals compared to two dose vaccination: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/omicron-cannot-escape-t-cells-boosters-protect-households-omicron-2021-12-29/ https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/... That's a pretty big reduction.
parkingrift 5y ago
Helpful? This is a scientific study.