8 ms·

SCOTUS to Consider Challenges to Race-Conscious Admissions at Harvard, UNC

47 points by cwwc 5y ago

filed 5y ago
Time to challenge affirmative action or raced based hiring or discrimination of whites in the job market as well. Certain groups are getting truly resentful of groups that benefit from this blatant discrimination.
- echopurity 5y ago
- filed 5y ago
- vmception 5y ago
  It’ll happen. Many companies and people keep getting their inclusivity goal’s implementations wrong and will continue doing so with the current laws and incentives. Until they simply begin educating and recruiting in different areas, they’ll continue their pipeline problem excuse.
satronaut 5y ago
I couldn't find an archived version of the story, but here's the same topic on yahoo news without a paywall https://news.yahoo.com/u-supreme-court-hear-challenge-144716268.html https://news.yahoo.com/u-supreme-court-hear-challenge-144716...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- nkurz 5y ago
  https://archive.fo/wNGfe https://archive.fo/wNGfe
Apes 5y ago
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  If you ever read the right-wing news, you'd know they take every opportunity to take potshots at elite colleges, including legacy admission hypocrisy.
  - JaimeThompson 5y ago
    Strangely they very rarely call out all the right-wing leaders who graduated from such places.
- jimbob45 5y ago
  Would you be okay moving to a system based in large part (80%+) on your SAT/ACT score, your high school/community college GPA, and your letters of recommendation?
  - kerneloftruth 5y ago
    You mean a sane, fair, and objective system of evaluation? Yes.
    - kstrauser 5y ago
      That’s not very very and objective when you dig into, though. Take twins separated at birth, raise one in a good school system, and the other in a shoddy one. Guess which is likely to have the higher SAT/ACT, even though they were born with the same abilities. There are plenty of brilliant kids who made the mistake of being born in the wrong zip code. Something sane and fair would take that into account. Thing is, that’s good for the rest of us, too. I want the best and brightest to be found and educated so they can invent cool things and make my life better. If you reject people just because of their birthplace, you’re drastically limiting the talent pool.
      - 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
echopurity 5y ago
Miner49er 5y ago
I assume a ruling in favor of the challengers would mean Universities could only take into account GPA and test scores, but nothing about the background of an applicant? If you still allow background to be taken into account, you could look at things like an applicant's class, the neighborhood they grew up in, the schools they went to, etc. These could act as a proxy for race, so I'm not sure how much ignoring only race would really change.
- will4274 5y ago
  Those proxies are probably better than using race imho. At least that way, the black millionaires' son ends up being treated the same way as the white millionaires' son when they live in the same gated community and attend the same exclusive private school together.
  - 1234letshaveatw 5y ago
    Agreed, and to some extent I would think you would want your most talented students to have access to network with students that have an "in" with the rich and powerful (whether that is hereditary or whatever). If you exclude some of those, ahem, less talented progeny you lower the value of some of these schools I would think for minorities, the less privileged, etc. eg. Wouldn't you want the next Granville Woods to have access to a VCs daughter or a Senators son?
- xhkkffbf 5y ago
  Background might be more helpful. I went to college with a rich black man whose father was a big oil executive in Nigeria. No slavery in his background. Plenty of cash. But on paper he was black (not even African American since he wasn't a US citizen.)
kerneloftruth 5y ago
Glad to know scotus is reconsidering the policies. I'm struck by "Race Conscious Admissions". Hopefully they'll see the same fate as "Race Conscious Water Fountain Usage Rules", and will join other nakedly racist things now on the ash heap of history.
- yucky 5y ago
  >"Race Conscious Water Fountain Usage Rules" This was exactly what I laughed at as well. How are they not self-aware enough to see they tacitly support racial discrimination. Giving it a cute name doesn't change it.
fredophile 5y ago
From a couple minutes of quick googling I see that both Harvard and UNC consider legacy as part of their decision making criteria for admissions. If racism may have prevented some students from entering either of these institutions 1-2 generations ago then that racism is affecting current applicants. I'm fine with universities dropping race-conscious admissions but they should also stop considering legacy status at the same time.
- asjldkfin 5y ago
  As private institutions, they can do whatever they want. Race is a special case since it falls under a protected attribute. I don't think there's any grounds for asking them to stop considering legacy.
  - fredophile 5y ago
    UNC is a public university, not a private institution. ETA: If you believe that legacy admissions perpetuate the impacts of racism from 1-2 generations ago then there is a moral and ethical grounds to ask them to stop considering legacy.
    - asjldkfin 5y ago
      Referring specifically to Harvard and other Ivys. I have no idea why any public university would consider legacy as a factor. Edit: I think it's a leap to tie legacy admission from 2 generations ago to racism. Because that's attributing wide spread societal faults to a few specific institution.
      - fredophile 5y ago
        I'm not attributing wide spread societal faults to specific institutions. This is simply a question of garbage in, garbage out. The sample of students from 1-2 generations ago is biased towards certain races. Therefore, using that biased data to decide who gets into a university today perpetuates that bias. The exact source of that bias isn't important and doesn't mean the bias doesn't exist.
filed 5y ago
If colleges can discriminate based on race, then everyone and every business should be afforded the same privilege. Meaning, there should be no diversity quotas, mandates, or accusations of racism, even if there are hardly any minorities employee at a business. It is this double standard that no one likes. If Harvard wants to admit only blacks for 2025 let them, but stop telling companies in CA they need at least 1 non white on the board or that there aren't enough blacks in tech. If you don't agree that everyone should be treated the same, then we have to go by race protections and colleges are discriminating. What is next, mandating you date a minority if you a white?
- hn_truth 5y ago
  At the very least, we can start with quotas in the NBA and NFL to limit the number of people who have african ancestry, since they are horrifyingly overrepresented due to racism against non-blacks.
  - filed 5y ago
    Yep it is horrific. Where are the asians.... If blacks are going to complain they aren't at tech companies in sufficient numbers then whites and asians have a right to demand they aren't in NBA in high enough numbers.

47 points by cwwc 5y ago

Time to challenge affirmative action or raced based hiring or discrimination of whites in the job market as well. Certain groups are getting truly resentful of groups that benefit from this blatant discrimination.

echopurity 5y ago
filed 5y ago
vmception 5y ago
It’ll happen. Many companies and people keep getting their inclusivity goal’s implementations wrong and will continue doing so with the current laws and incentives. Until they simply begin educating and recruiting in different areas, they’ll continue their pipeline problem excuse.

satronaut 5y ago

I couldn't find an archived version of the story, but here's the same topic on yahoo news without a paywall https://news.yahoo.com/u-supreme-court-hear-challenge-144716268.html https://news.yahoo.com/u-supreme-court-hear-challenge-144716...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nkurz 5y ago
https://archive.fo/wNGfe https://archive.fo/wNGfe

Apes 5y ago

bpodgursky 5y ago
If you ever read the right-wing news, you'd know they take every opportunity to take potshots at elite colleges, including legacy admission hypocrisy.
- JaimeThompson 5y ago
  Strangely they very rarely call out all the right-wing leaders who graduated from such places.
jimbob45 5y ago
Would you be okay moving to a system based in large part (80%+) on your SAT/ACT score, your high school/community college GPA, and your letters of recommendation?
- kerneloftruth 5y ago
  You mean a sane, fair, and objective system of evaluation? Yes.
  - kstrauser 5y ago
    That’s not very very and objective when you dig into, though. Take twins separated at birth, raise one in a good school system, and the other in a shoddy one. Guess which is likely to have the higher SAT/ACT, even though they were born with the same abilities. There are plenty of brilliant kids who made the mistake of being born in the wrong zip code. Something sane and fair would take that into account. Thing is, that’s good for the rest of us, too. I want the best and brightest to be found and educated so they can invent cool things and make my life better. If you reject people just because of their birthplace, you’re drastically limiting the talent pool.
    - 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

echopurity 5y ago

Miner49er 5y ago

I assume a ruling in favor of the challengers would mean Universities could only take into account GPA and test scores, but nothing about the background of an applicant? If you still allow background to be taken into account, you could look at things like an applicant's class, the neighborhood they grew up in, the schools they went to, etc. These could act as a proxy for race, so I'm not sure how much ignoring only race would really change.

will4274 5y ago
Those proxies are probably better than using race imho. At least that way, the black millionaires' son ends up being treated the same way as the white millionaires' son when they live in the same gated community and attend the same exclusive private school together.
- 1234letshaveatw 5y ago
  Agreed, and to some extent I would think you would want your most talented students to have access to network with students that have an "in" with the rich and powerful (whether that is hereditary or whatever). If you exclude some of those, ahem, less talented progeny you lower the value of some of these schools I would think for minorities, the less privileged, etc. eg. Wouldn't you want the next Granville Woods to have access to a VCs daughter or a Senators son?
xhkkffbf 5y ago
Background might be more helpful. I went to college with a rich black man whose father was a big oil executive in Nigeria. No slavery in his background. Plenty of cash. But on paper he was black (not even African American since he wasn't a US citizen.)

kerneloftruth 5y ago

Glad to know scotus is reconsidering the policies. I'm struck by "Race Conscious Admissions". Hopefully they'll see the same fate as "Race Conscious Water Fountain Usage Rules", and will join other nakedly racist things now on the ash heap of history.

yucky 5y ago
>"Race Conscious Water Fountain Usage Rules" This was exactly what I laughed at as well. How are they not self-aware enough to see they tacitly support racial discrimination. Giving it a cute name doesn't change it.

fredophile 5y ago

From a couple minutes of quick googling I see that both Harvard and UNC consider legacy as part of their decision making criteria for admissions. If racism may have prevented some students from entering either of these institutions 1-2 generations ago then that racism is affecting current applicants. I'm fine with universities dropping race-conscious admissions but they should also stop considering legacy status at the same time.

asjldkfin 5y ago
As private institutions, they can do whatever they want. Race is a special case since it falls under a protected attribute. I don't think there's any grounds for asking them to stop considering legacy.
- fredophile 5y ago
  UNC is a public university, not a private institution. ETA: If you believe that legacy admissions perpetuate the impacts of racism from 1-2 generations ago then there is a moral and ethical grounds to ask them to stop considering legacy.
  - asjldkfin 5y ago
    Referring specifically to Harvard and other Ivys. I have no idea why any public university would consider legacy as a factor. Edit: I think it's a leap to tie legacy admission from 2 generations ago to racism. Because that's attributing wide spread societal faults to a few specific institution.
    - fredophile 5y ago
      I'm not attributing wide spread societal faults to specific institutions. This is simply a question of garbage in, garbage out. The sample of students from 1-2 generations ago is biased towards certain races. Therefore, using that biased data to decide who gets into a university today perpetuates that bias. The exact source of that bias isn't important and doesn't mean the bias doesn't exist.

filed 5y ago

If colleges can discriminate based on race, then everyone and every business should be afforded the same privilege. Meaning, there should be no diversity quotas, mandates, or accusations of racism, even if there are hardly any minorities employee at a business. It is this double standard that no one likes. If Harvard wants to admit only blacks for 2025 let them, but stop telling companies in CA they need at least 1 non white on the board or that there aren't enough blacks in tech. If you don't agree that everyone should be treated the same, then we have to go by race protections and colleges are discriminating. What is next, mandating you date a minority if you a white?

hn_truth 5y ago
At the very least, we can start with quotas in the NBA and NFL to limit the number of people who have african ancestry, since they are horrifyingly overrepresented due to racism against non-blacks.
- filed 5y ago
  Yep it is horrific. Where are the asians.... If blacks are going to complain they aren't at tech companies in sufficient numbers then whites and asians have a right to demand they aren't in NBA in high enough numbers.