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Over the last month: VTSAX is down 9%, AMZN (hardest-hit Big 5) is down 16%, BTC is down 34%.

by bla3 5y ago

SeanAnderson 5y ago
Netflix is down 35%, not sure why Google would be seen as the hardest-hit FAANG.
- carabiner 5y ago
  What's the catalyst for all this? Did it start with Netflix?
  - akmarinov 5y ago
    Rates are going up, so stocks are being cashed out to be invested in better yielding bonds
    - podgaj 5y ago
      I want to push the cause further back. The problem is not that rates are going up, the problem is that rates were close to zero for so long,
    - iso1631 5y ago
      What rate are you getting on bonds today? What did you get last month?
  - carlivar 5y ago
    Fed rate policy
  - tim333 5y ago
    Personally I sold all my crypto after reading Grantham's thing on Friday. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30036797 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30036797
- bla3 5y ago
  My bad, didn't check Netflix. It's not "really" part of FANG in my head, I suppose. Edited my comment to say "Big 5" instead.
  - qazpot 5y ago
    > It's not "really" part of FANG in my head What do you thought the "N" stood for or you thought it was a placeholder so that acronym is not offensive.
    - iso1631 5y ago
      He made a GAAF, no need to read anything into it. Big Tech stocks have changed since FANG/FAANG was coined, the term doesn't necessarily relate to what was big and heading for explosive growth back then. "FAANG" is a noun that doesn't necessarily mean "Facebook Amazon Apple Netflix Google" any more
      - aaron695 5y ago
        > He made a GAAF, no need to read anything into it. But did not say they were wrong and Netflix was actually the same as Bitcoin. They edited it to another group to prove their point. Which to be honest confirms the original implication, they are picking and choosing for politics. OP point is clear to me, everyone can trash talk Bitcoin from twitter rote, but no one is actually thinking. How does it relate to the US equity market? The top comments are currently very uninspiring.
        iso1631 5y ago
        Certainly is clear, big tech stocks are falling, not as much as crypto, and that probably has something to do with big tech stocks have fundamental value.
    - bla3 5y ago
      Well sure, the N literally stands for netflix. But semantically, it's often used as "the big tech companies". At least that what it means in my head. And that's Apple, Microsoft, (gap), Google, Amazon, (gap), Telsa, Facebook, at least by market cap. Netflix isn't anywhere close.
- kmeisthax 5y ago
  The dirty secret of "FAANG" is that Netflix is not a FAANG company anymore despite literally being the N of the acronym. The idea behind FAANG was to create a catchy acronym for "high-growth, big-cap tech stock". At the time, maybe it made sense to stick Netflix in the acronym - but their business model was also radically different than it is now. It also wasn't really sustainable: Facebook, Apple, Amazon, and Google all own their "moats[0]", Netflix is just a middle-man that licenses content. The FAANG business model is all about creating your own sovereign territory on the Internet through capex and licensing. You spend a lot of money building out the best tech platform possible, and then license that out to as many people as possible so you can take 30%[1] off of the top of every transaction ever. This also implies being "cynically inclusive": trying to onboard anyone and everyone, regardless of their absolute economic value as a customer or the company's ability to support them. 30% of pennies adds up across billions of individual publishers. Netflix does not do this, never have, and never will. They only license premium video content, which means they're exclusively working with people who actually have negotiating leverage. Furthermore, the people selling that content are better-capitalized than Netflix and can afford to just DIY/self-host their own streaming service. Thus, their business model is less like YouTube, and more like Comcast. The amount of profit Netflix can make off of premium content is far lower than FAANG companies make off of the "30% of pennies" model. That's also why they moved into content production - owning the shows is more valuable than owning the screens they are showed on. Counting Netflix as a FAANG makes absolutely no sense and we should just pretend the N stands for, oh... I dunno. Does Alphabet own an "N" company yet? Is there any other platform owner out there that has an "n" somewhere in their name? [0] A tech company euphemism for a monopoly. Amazon likes to call it a "flywheel". Other companies use the phrase "stickiness". [1] A lot has been made of "the 30%", especially in the context of Epic v. Apple. In my opinion, the problem is not the fact that the cut is 30%, or even that it exists at all; it's just a convenient shorthand for market power gained from owning the platform.
  - jcranmer 5y ago
    > Counting Netflix as a FAANG makes absolutely no sense and we should just pretend the N stands for, oh... I dunno. I always mentally treat the 'N' as standing for Microsoft. The letter isn't right, but FAAMG isn't as easy to pronounce as FAANG...
bpodgursky 5y ago
Yeah but then look over the past year.
neogodless 5y ago
Yup - there are other factors that affect what investors think of tech stocks and crypto, but they are also on the riskier end of the spectrum, so when the general market sentiment swings, they swing too, and to a greater degree.

Over the last month: VTSAX is down 9%, AMZN (hardest-hit Big 5) is down 16%, BTC is down 34%.

by bla3 5y ago

Over the last month: VTSAX is down 9%, AMZN (hardest-hit Big 5) is down 16%, BTC is down 34%.

SeanAnderson 5y ago

Netflix is down 35%, not sure why Google would be seen as the hardest-hit FAANG.

carabiner 5y ago
What's the catalyst for all this? Did it start with Netflix?
- akmarinov 5y ago
  Rates are going up, so stocks are being cashed out to be invested in better yielding bonds
  - podgaj 5y ago
    I want to push the cause further back. The problem is not that rates are going up, the problem is that rates were close to zero for so long,
  - iso1631 5y ago
    What rate are you getting on bonds today? What did you get last month?
- carlivar 5y ago
  Fed rate policy
- tim333 5y ago
  Personally I sold all my crypto after reading Grantham's thing on Friday. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30036797 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30036797
bla3 5y ago
My bad, didn't check Netflix. It's not "really" part of FANG in my head, I suppose. Edited my comment to say "Big 5" instead.
- qazpot 5y ago
  > It's not "really" part of FANG in my head What do you thought the "N" stood for or you thought it was a placeholder so that acronym is not offensive.
  - iso1631 5y ago
    He made a GAAF, no need to read anything into it. Big Tech stocks have changed since FANG/FAANG was coined, the term doesn't necessarily relate to what was big and heading for explosive growth back then. "FAANG" is a noun that doesn't necessarily mean "Facebook Amazon Apple Netflix Google" any more
    - aaron695 5y ago
      > He made a GAAF, no need to read anything into it. But did not say they were wrong and Netflix was actually the same as Bitcoin. They edited it to another group to prove their point. Which to be honest confirms the original implication, they are picking and choosing for politics. OP point is clear to me, everyone can trash talk Bitcoin from twitter rote, but no one is actually thinking. How does it relate to the US equity market? The top comments are currently very uninspiring.
      - iso1631 5y ago
        Certainly is clear, big tech stocks are falling, not as much as crypto, and that probably has something to do with big tech stocks have fundamental value.
  - bla3 5y ago
    Well sure, the N literally stands for netflix. But semantically, it's often used as "the big tech companies". At least that what it means in my head. And that's Apple, Microsoft, (gap), Google, Amazon, (gap), Telsa, Facebook, at least by market cap. Netflix isn't anywhere close.
kmeisthax 5y ago
The dirty secret of "FAANG" is that Netflix is not a FAANG company anymore despite literally being the N of the acronym. The idea behind FAANG was to create a catchy acronym for "high-growth, big-cap tech stock". At the time, maybe it made sense to stick Netflix in the acronym - but their business model was also radically different than it is now. It also wasn't really sustainable: Facebook, Apple, Amazon, and Google all own their "moats[0]", Netflix is just a middle-man that licenses content. The FAANG business model is all about creating your own sovereign territory on the Internet through capex and licensing. You spend a lot of money building out the best tech platform possible, and then license that out to as many people as possible so you can take 30%[1] off of the top of every transaction ever. This also implies being "cynically inclusive": trying to onboard anyone and everyone, regardless of their absolute economic value as a customer or the company's ability to support them. 30% of pennies adds up across billions of individual publishers. Netflix does not do this, never have, and never will. They only license premium video content, which means they're exclusively working with people who actually have negotiating leverage. Furthermore, the people selling that content are better-capitalized than Netflix and can afford to just DIY/self-host their own streaming service. Thus, their business model is less like YouTube, and more like Comcast. The amount of profit Netflix can make off of premium content is far lower than FAANG companies make off of the "30% of pennies" model. That's also why they moved into content production - owning the shows is more valuable than owning the screens they are showed on. Counting Netflix as a FAANG makes absolutely no sense and we should just pretend the N stands for, oh... I dunno. Does Alphabet own an "N" company yet? Is there any other platform owner out there that has an "n" somewhere in their name? [0] A tech company euphemism for a monopoly. Amazon likes to call it a "flywheel". Other companies use the phrase "stickiness". [1] A lot has been made of "the 30%", especially in the context of Epic v. Apple. In my opinion, the problem is not the fact that the cut is 30%, or even that it exists at all; it's just a convenient shorthand for market power gained from owning the platform.
- jcranmer 5y ago
  > Counting Netflix as a FAANG makes absolutely no sense and we should just pretend the N stands for, oh... I dunno. I always mentally treat the 'N' as standing for Microsoft. The letter isn't right, but FAAMG isn't as easy to pronounce as FAANG...

bpodgursky 5y ago

Yeah but then look over the past year.

neogodless 5y ago

Yup - there are other factors that affect what investors think of tech stocks and crypto, but they are also on the riskier end of the spectrum, so when the general market sentiment swings, they swing too, and to a greater degree.