15 ms·

Buy things, not experiences

• draw_down 5y ago
• goda90 5y ago
  I think the author misses the point. We live in a culture where people frequently buy things and then never use them. Those are the things people mean when saying "buy experiences, not things". Putting money into tools for a hobby you already do is buying experiences.
  • cableshaft 5y ago
    > Putting money into tools for a hobby you already do is buying experiences. That is true. Like I have a board game hobby, and each one of those I buy is to buy a new experience, a new set of mechanisms, art, theme, etc. Now unfortunately a lot of what I buy ends up just sitting on shelves, because I have way too much of these to ever play more than a handful more than once every couple of years now, but at least at the time of purchase it was so I could have a game experience that I don't have access to yet (used to be I could count on some friends to get some games and experience it that way, but I've seen them a lot less since the pandemic, and a lot of what I buy can be played solo now).
• globular-toast 5y ago
  Buy assets, minimise expenditure and maintain happiness through tiny incremental upgrades. But maybe these takes are assuming that nobody can afford to buy assets any more unless they already have them. Most people I know consider everything they buy to be an expense.
• dusted 5y ago
  "Buy experiences, not things" have always bothered me as irrational. Sure, one-off experiences are valuable, but I think they're overrated. Maybe it's because I don't have a good memory, but, to me, an experience is orders of magnitude more valuable in that moment, while it's happening, than the memory of it, which will fade, and eventually disappear entirely. Buying experiences are short term value propositions for me, they're great while they last, but they tend to fade, and the absolutely best of them, those that fade slowly or not at all, those cannot be bought anyway. Things on the other hand, are an investment in the future, it I buy an item, I will have many opportunities to derive value from it, at least as long as I can remember that I own it.
  • saberience 5y ago
    A thing can't kiss you on the beach while watching the sunset.
    • dusted 5y ago
      Indeed, and you can't buy that experience either (well, I supposed you could, but I'm going to argue it's not going to be as good as the real thing).
    • can16358p 5y ago
      If you're "buying" the kiss I'd really argue whether it's a good thing. I don't think the argument applies to things like love, kiss, or any non-quantitative things.
    • justsomehnguy 5y ago
      I've had the experiences, including kisses and much, much more. Now it's only a sorrow memories, while 1TB Transcend StoreJet still holds them well [in .jpg and .mov form] and serves well to occasionally transfer files > 30Gb. And I still have a couple t-shirts from that time, though relegated to in-house wear only, of course.
      • darkwater 5y ago
        So, should you have bought 2x 1TB disks instead of going on that holiday?
        • justsomehnguy 5y ago
          There were two disks, actually. The other one (although a 640Gb one) was left to her with a copy of those jpegs and movs. Now guess, how often do I look at them?
  • basisword 5y ago
    I don’t think the point is that you can sit on your couch and remember the experience and derive value from that. It’s more that you undertake experiences with other people and then when you see those people you reminisce about those experiences. When my friends and I hang out we talk about holidays we went on 15 years ago. We relive it, laugh, different people remember different parts. We can repeat this every time we see each other and it never gets old.
• siva7 5y ago
  Have to disagree. For every thing you buy, you should have time to use it. I can’t count how often i bought expensive things just to use it once. On the other hand, experiences are already the time you buy, not a material thing.
• Pamar 5y ago
  The sectors of the economy that are becoming more expensive every year – which are preventing people from building durable wealth – include real estate and education, both items that are sold by the promise of irreplaceable “experiences.” Healthcare, too, is a modern experience that is best avoided. As a percent of GDP, these are the growing expenditures that are eating up people’s wallets, not durable goods. I don't find this type of reasoning very persuasive. First of all, "experiences" like live music or tourism seem to be conspicuously absent ("education" is an experience?! healthcare? People want to pay for the experience to be in a hospital?). This, in turn, makes me wonder what the author has in mind when he talks of "durable goods". A laptop? A camera? a fridge?
  • gonzo41 5y ago
    A bike, a good tent, a decent sleeping bag, a comfortable pack. Own those thing and go find your own experiences. All of what I listed may not be durable forever, but for the cost they go a good while. When I'm 80, I don't want to spend 80% of my wealth on living another year.
    • SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
      I’m nowhere near 80 but I have health conditions which necessitates regular medical intervention and prescribed medication to keep me alive. By this logic I should just lay down and die instead of trying to get better??
      • gonzo41 5y ago
        I shattered my collar bone into about 5 big chunks from mountain biking in my twenties. It would have been fatal (after a long infection) a 100 years ago. I'm glad I got it fixed. I was speaking in the general case about the point of medical care that doesn't balance out economically. I'm not so nihilistic to say that people shouldn't live they life they have, but it's pretty well known the most expensive health care people get is usually right at the end of their lives. Chronic conditions aside of course.
• simonbarker87 5y ago
  As with all things there is a balance. I’ve removed many physical things (whole categories of things in some cases) from my life, but at the same time I have a full home gym, more tools than I really need and more bikes than my wife thinks I need. In some areas I would be considered Spartan and in others indulgent. The key is paying attention to what things/experiences make you happy and spend your time and money there, regardless of what other people think. Getting rid of your stuff should only be a priority if it brings you some quality of life improvement - otherwise buy all the stuff you want.
• udp 5y ago
  > A well-appointed kitchen [..] A toolbox [..] A hunting rifle ... one of these things is not like the others
  • kroltan 5y ago
    Yes, a well-appointed kitchen is orders of magnitude more expensive.
• teeray 5y ago
  Buy things that repeatedly generate experiences :)
  • pm90 5y ago
    Rimworld/ Crusader Kings/ Civ comes to mind
• skilled 5y ago
  In my 20s I spent more than 6 figures to travel world. I cannot imagine a single "thing" that will ever come close to giving me a similar experience. It completely altered my life, consciousness even. If a Lambo can replicate that, I will gladly save money to buy one down the road.
  • sockpuppet69 5y ago
    • darkwater 5y ago
      Is this supposed to be /s ?
      • sockpuppet69 5y ago
  • dbs 5y ago
    To buy and *maintain it*. Maintaining it is quite an expensive experience.
    • Kon-Peki 5y ago
      No idea about the Lambo, but the Ferrari programs seem designed to encourage driving the hell out of the car. Everything is X years with unlimited miles. When you buy the car, you can opt to purchase a 15-year long "you pay for gas and tires, we cover everything else including car washes" package. I'm sure the cost is insane, but then again so is the car.
  • andi999 5y ago
    Personally I believe travelling the world on a much smaller budget (like lower 5 figures, depending on how many years you travel of course) is more interesting. Instead of big hotels you stay in small guesthouses, more contact to fellow travellers (of that age-group) and contact to the locals.
• elil17 5y ago
  This feels like a straw man argument. Who was saying you should not own a set of tools, nice kitchen wares, or exercise equipment? Some people, I’m sure, but not the economists (or psychologists or whatever) who found the “experiences produce more happiness than things” effect, nor most of the people who use this principle to guide their purchases. The idea is that a vacation does more for you than buying a new car instead of a used one (i.e., that this applies to purchases made with disposable income/for fun), not that you should eschew pots and pans in favor of purchasing restaurant experiences. Further, I think most people who generally prefer experiences to things acknowledge that acquiring thoughtfully chosen objects can be a very good idea.
  • calvinv 5y ago
    You would be surprised with the kinds of people out there. I used to flat share in a large city with a friend and I had bought most of the kitchen wares since the flat was unfurnished and I had a preference to cook at home. He would constantly tell me how I only cared for things and I should be a minimalist like him. When I was packing to move out on my own he was complaining that I was taking everything and it would be unfair to not leave most of my things behind and I should by new things when I move into the new place. I would hesitate to generalise that people want experiences over things or actually understand what minimalism is
• durnygbur 5y ago
  Can afford neither, sorry.
• atarian 5y ago
  Anyone else noticing this trend of telling people what to do in the headline?
  • schrijver 5y ago
    Have been reading Hacker News for many years, and feel like this kind of headline is quite common from the HN/SV bubble. Paul Graham writes like this too. It’s the language of a software tutorial for novices, applied to life. It’s this shift that makes it feel so pretentious! As a reader it’s fine to accept being a novice reading expert advice, when the subject is a computer program. When the subject is life choices, a writer would normally adopt a more humble tone, since most readers would need to be convinced that someone had all that more expertise than themselves. At the same time, I find it slightly endearing in its naivety, because these subjects being too complicated to capture in simple rules doesn’t stop the authors from trying.
• psyc 5y ago
• baxuz 5y ago
  > Healthcare, too, is a modern experience that is best avoided This is a joke, right?
  • Eddy_Viscosity2 5y ago
    It is best avoided. Avoid meaning to alter your course in advance, i.e.: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, or the best way to stay healthy is not to get sick.
    • SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
      > the best way to stay healthy is not to get sick This is a pretty “duh” statement. Of course people don’t want to get sick. But many illnesses are genetic, even illnesses that we presumably have some control over (like blood cholesterol levels or addiction). Many illnesses are caused by exposures and traumas in our childhoods where we had very little control in our life. Even lifestyle illnesses can be pointed to as coming from a place where one may not have been enabled to live a healthy lifestyle, due to ignorant raising.
      • globular-toast 5y ago
        Well, I think so, but around 65% of adults are overweight in my country, less than 30% eat enough dietary fibre and 82% of adults consume alcohol. Of course there are things out of our control, but a lot of people act like they don't care about getting sick.
      • Eddy_Viscosity2 5y ago
        Those would be cases then where it couldn't be avoided, so you end up seeking health care. There is a difference between 'avoiding' and 'not using under any circumstances'.
    • baxuz 5y ago
      I mean, I completely agree. This is why I also don't write unit tests and why I avoid debugging my code. The best way to have a correct program is not to write buggy code in the first place. /s
• II2II 5y ago
  One of the things I encourage kids to do is make up their own games, may that involve a creative take on tag or putting together a checkers board with a piece of paper and painted rocks. The reason is simple: we put too much value on attaching happiness to money. I certainly don't want to see their happiness evaporate simply because they cannot afford it.
• jasode 5y ago
  The "things" in the charitable reading of "buy experiences not things" are about the throwaway consumerism stuff that ends up in landfills. Stuff like fast fashion or kids toys that children get immediately bored of the day after Christmas. A minimalist can get rid of all the unworn clothes cluttering up the closet while also buying a sewing machine to make clothes the wearer truly loves. The advice to "buy experiences not things" shouldn't mean sacrificing the sewing machine and only use that money for a trip to see a Paris fashion show. I think reasonable people already know that many hobbies require buying things.
  • wyattpeak 5y ago
    I think you're right, but in another sense I think the consumerist junk reading is just one segment of the population looking down their nose at another. I'm not sure that a game I quickly become bored with is substantially different from a weekend holiday. They're both things that occupied me for little time, but which I enjoyed for that little time and form positive, if rarely reviewed, memories. I don't go much for fashionable clothing, but I suspect the same is true there. There are other arguments against disposable goods, but I don't know if they're strictly worse than the experiences that the maxim seeks to replace them with. It's a lot easier to replace a pound of cotton than it is to take a flight's worth of CO2 out of the air. Edit: rephrased a line.
• aaron_oxenrider 5y ago
  Its almost like there isn't an easy either/or scenario here. Life can't be broken down into such an easy phrase. Most of the things I own are to enable experiences. I enjoy kayaking and backpacking. Is my kayak a thing or is my kayaking an experience. I'd say it fits both.
• can16358p 5y ago
  This! When people "buy experiences" and travel/visit etc, I just don't really find it interesting. I buy things because I enjoy doing stuff with them. I buy a camera and a drone because I like taking shots. I buy a new computer because I like coding/design/video editing and it does it faster. On the other hand, I've never found traveling an enjoyable activity of any kind. It's just extra stress for me (unless there's some specific reason that excites me that justifies it all). I buy tools that enable me to create more stuff, and I'd always pick it over many experiences that I'd buy. Good to see that I'm not really alone.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • JSavageOne 5y ago
    I think the strawman here is assuming that an experience needs to be "bought". What kind of photos/videos do you take with your camera/drone if you don't like traveling/visiting places? In any case, the author makes the distinction between experience-like things. A camera is a perfect example of an experience-enabling thing. Photography and videography are experiences. I don't think anyone in the "buy experiences not things" crowd would discourage buying a camera, or something like say a surfboard, snowboard, basketball, woodworking tools, raspberry pi, etc since those enable experiences. On the topic of travel - personally I think it's extremely valuable from a cultural/educational perspective to venture outside of one's city and/or country at least once in one's lifetime. I've spent the last 4 years traveling and living abroad, and while I wouldn't necessary recommend going that hard, I certainly wouldn't trade the experience for anything. Also, experience is more than just buying plane/train tickets and hotel rooms, nor do experiences necessitate travel.
    • JKCalhoun 5y ago
      Very good. While the OP may disagree, I suspect, years from now, it will be certain experiences taking photos with the camera/drone that will still linger in their mind. I know for myself that a couple decades ago I excitedly rode the digital camera revolution and photographed/video'd family vacations (yeah, not very original of me). The photos now recall to my mind the heat and wind of Death Valley, the girls jumping on the beds in the hotel ... not the particular gear I was using.
• mro_name 5y ago
  why buy if you can make!
• cableshaft 5y ago
  Buying things can be equally problematic, speaking as someone with a bit of an impulse control problem who has probably 200 more board games than I have proper storage for and are spilling out all over the place (some in the garage, some in the sitting room, dining room, living room, basement, my office, the crawlspace, a walk-in closet, just laying on the ground in some circumstances). There comes a point where getting more of a thing isn't really useful anymore. Also, it really should be "buy neither". I'm trying to stop my bad buying habits this year, in part, because it's helping contribute negatively to climate change. Those games (or any good) have to be manufactured and transported, and use up precious resources we have on his planet. But experiences (at least the ones most people think of when they say this, like long-distance travel) also contributes badly to climate change. Which is another thing I'm struggling with, because I've never really traveled outside the US (except a week in Canada, once), and I've been mostly stuck within a three state radius for the past two years. I've always valued other cultures and seeing the world, just didn't feel like I can afford to before, and now I have to feel guilty for wanting to do that while the climate change specter looms. I may still let myself make a big trip or two at some point, as just watching other people do it on streams or whatever isn't quite the same, but my bucket list for travel was pretty long and it no longer really feels super ethical to burn a bunch of jet emissions just so I can see in person what the Angkor Wat ruins look like in Cambodia, as an example of what was on there. There's probably lots to see closer them that people ignore because everyone keeps being encouraged to think big and grand with experiences. State parks can have some beauty in them as well, even if they're smaller and simpler, you don't always have to go to national parks or other countries to see nature. My wife and I did quite a few of those near us the past two years and there's still quite a few more we could explore within a two hour drive of us.
• RamenJunkie_ 5y ago
  While I do think minimalism is overrated, and probably a side effect of the overpriced housing market the post mentions, experiences are definitely a better investment, if it's something you WANT to experience, and not just experience for the sake of experience. People just need a balance mostly.
• bikamonki 5y ago
  One should not buy things that one does not needed. Money spent in education and travel (which is just a form of education) is the best investment. Convince me that I am wrong.
  • dagw 5y ago
    One should not buy things that one does not need I love to travel and I have taken many a fun and interesting course to further educate myself post university. And while I certainly don't regret any of it for second, I needed none of them and from a purely utilitarian point of view they where pretty terrible investments.
• lui8906 5y ago
  > So I would, if anything, reverse the maxim: “Buy things, not experiences!” Sure, the Lambo might still be a waste of money, but thoughtfully chosen material goods can enable new activities can enrich your life, extend your capabilities, and deepen your understanding of the world. certain goods can "enable new activities". It seems like the author is still prioritizing experiences, just acknowledging that some experiences require things. Camping is a good example. I think the author misunderstands the original point though. Overconsumption generally leads to having a big collection of stuff, ever larger houses to store it. Having a reasonable collection of items that the user can leverage to have higher quality experiences, that are built to last where possible makes absolute sense. What is reasonable? That's for everyone to decide themselves. I don't find "buy things, not experiences" to add much to the discussion though.
  • evrydayhustling 5y ago
    Maybe a more flexible maxim would be "buy what lasts". A memory can last, but overpaying for an insta photo op is a fleeting status bump. The skis that let you take spontaneous adventures in with friends might last, but yet another single-use kitchen appliance probably won't. Disposable goods and services attract the most exploitative business models.
    • eru 5y ago
      > Disposable goods and services attract the most exploitative business models. Not sure that's true. Most people aren't particularly exploited by the toilet paper industry, are they? Whether some industry is 'exploitative' is more of a function of whether its customers and workers have outside options available. Competition provides discipline.
      • screenbreakout 5y ago
        Funny you mention toilet paper, cutting trees to clean your ass , and not very well at that, double layer, triple layer, scented...how many kinds of toilet paper, companies, people producing, managing, transporting, selling it...and it all ends up not very recyclable... all that because ? the bidet never took off?
• AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Or, don't buy things. Chances are you are getting by just fine with what you have and the only reason you think you need to buy something else is because someone who sells that thing paid professional manipulators to convince you that you need it. It's the same with experiences, really. Most of the reason you think you need to travel is because other people have travel blogs and talk about how amazing it is while taking staged photos that don't show off all the annoying parts and bills.
  • ct0 5y ago
• pm90 5y ago
  > While I appreciate the Stoic-style appraisal of what really brings happiness, economically, this analysis seems precisely backward. It amounts to saying that in an age of industrialization and globalism, when material goods are cheaper than ever, we should avoid partaking of this abundance. Instead, we should consume services afflicted by Baumol’s cost disease, taking long vacations and getting expensive haircuts which are just as hard to produce as ever. This seems like a silly argument. People don’t hear that aphorism and stop shopping. The genesis of that aphorism is people buying into the lifestyle that modern advertising sells to you and feeling unsatisfied. Like something is missing. Turns out, having a ton of crap that was sold to you as being life changing is seldom so. But take a walk in the park on a good day; meet up with friends to just hang out makes you feel better. That said, I do agree that the economy has “caught up” on that and is now selling experiences too. A vacation experience. A cruise experience. And so on. The right attitude seems to be skeptical of anything advertised and try to find your own thing. Not to just give in to rampant consumerism. I would also challenge the notion that city dwellers are setting the tone for this conversation. Very few Americans live in apartments willingly; it seems like a temporary thing; the goal is always to get a house. I doubt the apartment dwelling Americans are significant enough to set the cultural mores.
• sunrad 5y ago
  I was kind of listening until they intimated education and healthcare are not worthwhile.
• freemanon 5y ago
  The author's conclusion comes full circle: buy things that enable experiences. Thus, buy experiences.
  • zajio1am 5y ago
    Well, that is exactly the difference - buy things that enable you to get experience for free many times, instead of buying experience-as-a-service.
    • papito 5y ago
      Traveling is an experience, probably one of the most impressive we can have. To travel the world, to experience cultures, places, and food. But I have to buy a one-time ticket, not a private jet. Also, the satisfaction ROI on that one thing you bought once drastically caves after a short while.
      • elxr 5y ago
        Really depends on the thing. Surfboards, motorcycles, hell even some nice speakers. Those are things you buy once, yet provide continuous great experiences (at minimal extra cost) for many years to come. Of course, traveling is amazing too, but a lot of people can get just as much satisfaction from "things". Personally, I think both are essential for a fulfilling life, but it's perfectly reasonable if people have different priorities.
    • freemanon 5y ago
      That's true, but we can live with both buying one time experiences and also things that can give experiences multiple times.
  • jjav 5y ago
    Ultimately it's all experiences! But I agree with the author that the current trend of renting everything is difficult to understand. I can rent a kayaking experience for $70 a pop, or just buy a kayak for ~$1K. I've certainly used my kayak more than 15 times so I'm already ahead. And eventually I'll sell it for a reasonable percentage of purchase price. And meanwhile I can use it without restrictions which is a much more enjoyable experience (at the rental place need to return it before they close, can't use it at night, can't go to some areas, etc.) For anything I expect to use more than once, I'd rather buy it to enjoy freely.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• evancoop 5y ago
  The next iteration will be "buy information, not experiences." Industry creates and purchases data. We purchase books (read on Kindles), online courses, and in extreme cases, credentials. Isn't an NFT just 0s and 1s? Aren't we ultimately just converting material wealth to digital wealth?
• for_i_in_range 5y ago
  I have a Lamborghini. I don’t drive it to show off. It’s simply been on my vision board since age fifteen. It brings me a great experience every day.
  • ct0 5y ago
    Similarly, I bought a expensive espresso machine, also from Italy (lambo is VW now though). It brings me enjoyment and caffeine. While others are impressed by it, the purchase wasn't to impress. Functionally its amazing with every piece doing something very specific. Its function defines the form and perception of form gets confused with fancy, even by my smartest friends. Lamborghini are just well formed cars, not fancy by any means.
• 3pt14159 5y ago
  When you own things, your benefit from them comes from your experience of them when they are in use. As you increase the number of things in your life, the average utility of them decreases. There are a few counter examples[0], but for most people spending their own private money it follows that rule. Note that this is not the case with average degree of quality, but usually quality costs hit diminishing returns pretty fast (a couple of doublings). Ok so really what the original argument was saying wasn't the straw man of living like a stoic vs buying a better car or toaster. The original argument was taking time to experience the world is worth the cost compared to the alternative. That it's better to have a Honda instead of a Porsche if it means you had time to travel Europe and Africa for half a year instead. And I mostly agree with that. I don't mind shelling out the dollars for stuff that really matters like my primary dev machine, or what have you, but I really don't need $500 sweaters, or a luxury car, even though I can afford it. The delta to my own enjoyment just isn't worth it compared to other priorities like travelling or helping someone out. [0] e.g., horse plus cart is better than two horses or two carts.
• altacc 5y ago
  The author proves a weak opinion piece that seems to actually reinforce the idea of enabling experiences. Slogans are short but understanding is long & nuanced. People who debate slogans don't debate the underlying intention & meaning behind them. "Buy experiences, not things" doesn't mean only spending money on experiences that leave no material effects, it means spending money enabling experiences rather than spending money that doesn't. There is no such thing as "thing-like experiences", there are experiences enabled by purchases. Merely purchasing amazing camping gear doesn't provide you an experience, but using it does and that's an experience you've spent money on, not a "thing-like experience". On the other hand, upgrading your phone one version is unlikely to enable the same increase in experiences.
  • jonathanstrange 5y ago
    Many people seem to like the experience of buying things and trying them out, though. Otherwise it would be hard to explain the current "pro" audio plugin market, for example. Neither hobbyists nor professionals need hundreds of compressor and EQ plugins but companies have figured out that they will nevertheless buy them if the price hits a certain low sweet spot. Unless it becomes an addiction, I doubt this really makes them unhappy. It's mostly just a harmless "waste" of discretionary salary.
• yason 5y ago
  If you buy experiences for the same reason you buy things and that reason is that you just want something new all the time, then you're not going to make any progress either way. Buy things you really need. Buy experiences that you really, really want. But it should all serve the purpose of ideally not having to further buy something (or something similar) again the next week, month or year. Ideally, you're happy with what you have and what you've experienced and you don't need to repurchase that happiness over and over again.
• wccrawford 5y ago
  I always took "buy experiences not things" to mean that you should put your money towards having experiences, whether that's paying for a trip or buying something that enables you to do something you couldn't without it. A kayak is a "thing", but it's the gateway to an experience. If I buy someone a kayak, I don't intend for them to just hang it in their garage and look at it. I expect they'll actually use it. If I buy someone a board game, I expect they'll play it with other people. If I buy someone a food basket, I expect they'll not only eat it, but share it with their family and make a memory around it. If I buy someone a $1 toy from Dollar Store, I expect they'll play with it for a few minutes, and then throw it away. Yes, that was still an experience, but it's a pretty hollow one, and so it's just a "thing", though I suppose there's still a chance it could generate good memories. OTOH, pre-painted figurines... I just don't see how they create an experience. They're literally just there to look at. They might remind you of an experience you already had, but they don't create or enable experiences. And by extension, you could apply this to almost all art. And I definitely don't think people should stop buying (or producing) art. I end up thinking about the advice sometimes, but I don't follow it.
  • twodave 5y ago
    I think it just depends on the receiver of the gift. My daughter LOVES figurines and her and her friends will get together and role play with their different animals. It’s very much an experience. But I’d never buy something like that for my wife :)
  • Loic 5y ago
    For art, you experience it if it resonates with you. So, for me art is first an experience. But going back to the original article, it says: "A well-appointed kitchen allows you to cook healthy meals for yourself rather than ordering delivery night after night." As we discussed with an architect about renovating a house, he asked us our budget for the kitchen. We said that we paid about 2500€ for our current kitchen, so we were ready to spend 5000 to renovate. His answer was: "You, you are really cooking!". His 20 year experience was that the more expensive the kitchen, the less it is used. We are effectively cooking every single day of the week.
• wayoutthere 5y ago
  I buy experiences, not things because all the “things” you gather end up weighing you down. Sure, you could sell those things, but that’s work in and of itself. Do I buy things? Sure I do, but most of the things I buy are in service of some experience I wish to have. But I go to estate sales from time to time, where you see the collected detritus of a person’s life sold at ten cents on the dollar. Kind of puts it into perspective as the whole deal is a bit sad.
• ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  > A spacious living room makes it easy for your friends to come over and catch up on one another’s lives. This one rings true, modern megacities make your overpay for the housing, which is tiny, so then you overpay for bar / pub / whatever
  • dagw 5y ago
    Cities also make it much easier for your friends to actually show up. When I lived in a large city all my friends where either a walk or a short subway ride from a central meeting point. Now when we've all traded that in for larger living rooms we're all spread to the winds and we'd have to collectively spend hours in a car to all get together. Trading an apartment in the city for a larger living room has meant that I see much less of my friends than I used to.
• jonathanstrange 5y ago
  I'm a happy consumerist and love to buy things, whereas experiences are less important to me because I don't like traveling and only want to go out occasionally. So I kind of agree with the author, maybe I'm even a bit more radical. I sometimes even research things I don't really need at all just to find out what's the best one at a reasonable price. For example, I have pretty much the best metal pencil sharpener of the world attached to my table, use a mechanical keyboard, have a very neat monocular in my backback, have the optimal backpack, have a special sports fountain pen and the (for me) best pocket knife in my pocket, etc. Recently, I've bought inflatable solar-powered candle imitations that my girlfriend absolutely loves. I've even bought a printing adding machine, not the best but a fairly good one, and occasionally enjoy using it even though it's definitely the last thing I'd really need. It rattles in a pleasant way. To cut a long story short, it seems obvious that life advice in both directions is somewhat shallow. Some people prefer to spend their money on traveling, others prefer things. Claiming that experiences are better sounds like a marketing ploy by companies who offer "vanity lifestyle products & experiences."
• antisthenes 5y ago
  Buy things that free up your time for experiences.
• cranium 5y ago
  Interesting take on the subject, though I would not be certain that minimalism emerged as co-op mechanism for the lost of purchasing power. Personally, I focus my money on "reducing unhappiness" first, which includes buying things that seem unnecessary like a second chef knife to use when the first is in the dishwasher. Despite that, I feel quite minimalist in my day-to-day life as I try to be mindful of what I buy (change my mind). If I can recommend a book on money and value, "The Geometry of Wealth" by Brian Portnoy is surprisingly deep on the subject of happiness. I thought it was about to how to invest according to your investor profile but it was more about finding what matters to you and aggressively move your money towards that. Also an interesting discussion of the two faces of happiness: hedonistic (instant gratification) and eudaimonistic (life contentment).
  • circlefavshape 5y ago
    ... or hedonistic (joy) and eudaimonistic (smugness)
• Ma8ee 5y ago
  Even the author takes for granted that the experiences are what is important. But instead of buying the experiences directly, like the restaurant meal with friends, the author is making a point that by having bought a large living room and a well equipped kitchen we can use our things to have the experience instead. And I think this is uncontroversial. The slogan "buy experiences, not things" is just a way to point out that the experience is the important part, and that the things, if any, just are means to that.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• koprulusector 5y ago
  As someone who’s moved a lot in the last ten years, I have an intrinsic affinity to minimalism. When you’ve moved three or four times in as many years, you really question each “thing” you’re packing up and loading into a truck for the third or fourth time. Further, the last decade I’ve spent a major part of my recreational time out with friends rather than sitting at home like Golem coveting his precious or Smaug content to be alone with my hoard of material possessions. I guess, sure, if your life’s goal is to own a house in the suburbs and obtain the nuclear family with a spouse and 2.5 kids, where your neighbors measure your status based on your possessions, then this piece makes great points! Otherwise, I call bullshit, because I’ve definitely made memories and stories I can look back at with more than fondness, that were amazing to experience, and just as fun to recount with friends now. I wouldn’t for a second trade those experiences for a new couch, TV, or sound system. IMO, OP is basing a lot of their opinions on relative uneventful life.
  • CoastalCoder 5y ago
    > Further, the last decade I’ve spent a major part of my recreational time out with friends rather than sitting at home like Golem coveting his precious or Smaug content to be alone with my hoard of material possessions So you're not a creature of Hobbit?
• codingdave 5y ago
  > economically, this analysis seems precisely backward. Yes, but that is the point - the economics of your life are not what makes you happy, at least not once you have some wealth. When we are young, poor, or both, most of us are fighting to have enough money to cover our needs, and therefore economics are everything to our happiness. We work to get to the point where we are stable financially. But when we reach that point, happiness is no longer driven by economics. We've surpassed that hurdle. (And should be grateful for having done so, BTW... many people never get there.) Once you are lucky enough to be past that point, your measuring stick should change to something that is not economic. Hence, the advice to buy experiences. This does not mean that investment in things is a bad financial choice. It means that investment doesn't drive happiness. Sure, take care of your nest egg, manage your finances, empower yourself to always stay above that hurdle... but also go out and do things and live a life that satisfies you. Now, if owning more stuff truly satisfies you, fine. But for many people, it does not, especially as we get older and realize that all we truly have at the end of our life is our experiences.
• JSavageOne 5y ago
  > "There are experience-like things; like a basement carpentry workshop or a fine collection of loose-leaf tea. And there are thing-like experiences, like an Instagrammable vacation that collects a bunch of likes but soon fades from memory." I would retitle the article as "Buy Experience-Like Things, Not Thing-Like Experiences". Or maybe "experience-enabling things" is a better way to put it. I don't think anyone would ever discourage buying a piano, basketball, snowboard, camera, Raspberry Pi to tinker with, etc, because these all enable experiences that wouldn't be possible otherwise. Things and experiences aren't inherently good or bad. It depends on the thing and activity. It's true that many experiences do require things (eg. having/renting a car to visit cool places), but many of the best experiences can't just be bought with money (the classic example being romance).
• iamsanteri 5y ago
  After I bought my cross-country skis, I for the first time feel almost addicted and so happy and full of joy when I get to step outside, put on the skis and go on a 10km track that goes right past our house. When I look back, I remember being hesitant as with all things I buy whether I should do spend my money or not (what if I won't ski that much?), but now afterwards I am very much thankful to myself for buying the skis even if they were expensive. As we say, 100% worth it, including the good amount of experiences I've had with them so far.
• papito 5y ago
  When I am on my deathbed, I will think back, to that beautiful time when I bought that tricked out gas stove instead of seeing Italy.
  • kkoncevicius 5y ago
    Is optimization for minimum amount of deathbed regrets a wise way to live your life? You can decide to go to Italy, be back tired and disappointed in 3 days, and then blame yourself for not getting the gas stove instead. Your point of view can change when you are much older, sure, but there is still a gap in the argument for why traveling is more worthwhile compared to buying stuff.
    • circlefavshape 5y ago
      > Is optimization for minimum amount of deathbed regrets a wise way to live your life? This. Dying is unlikely to be a pleasant experience, regardless of the number of your regrets
    • papito 5y ago
      How you would feel about your life if you were on your deathbed right now is in fact an interesting exercise. Right now. What do you regret doing, and most importantly what do you regret NOT doing? Many people, after they retire, feel like they lived a wrong life, full in work, and not experiences. Or, you know, THINGS. What Really Matters at The End of Life: https://www.ted.com/talks/bj_miller_what_really_matters_at_the_end_of_life?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/bj_miller_what_really_matters_at_t...
  • dagw 5y ago
    Or you'll be thinking about all those fantastic meals you made and shared thanks to that stove. While your visit to Italy is nothing but I vague, slightly disappointing, memory.
• cletus 5y ago
  This is kind of a weird post. The author seems to be anti living in "prime" locations, at least that's how I read the tone when talking about the "downtown studio" with no space. I mean even if it is expensive, the whole point of that downtown studio is to enable experiences, either directly by gaining access to them or indirectly by simply giving you more time by reducing your commute (eg when I lived in NYC I quite deliberately lived a 5 minute walk from work). Second, I can't help but think of the Fight Club quote: > “The things you own end up owning you. It's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything.” I think observers miss this point when they see people living more alternative lifestyles (eg tiny homes, on a boat, in a van). All of those things you own require upkeep or even just space to store them. This is a drain on your income and if you want to keep having them it increases how much money you need to support them. The only part I really agree with tangentially is the "overconsuming experiences". Like this is how I feel about people who climb Mount Everest. It's long since lost any achievement value really. I can't help but feel that "experiences" can reach a point of trying to fill a void that'll never be filled.
• low_tech_love 5y ago
  Not sure I agree with much of it, but one thing resonates very well with me: A well-appointed kitchen allows you to cook healthy meals for yourself rather than ordering delivery night after night. Having been born in a third-world country, where eating out is cheap and portions are generous, I never cared about learning how to cook properly. When I moved to Europe, where outside-food is ridiculously expensive and portions are depressingly small, I concur with this with all my heart and soul.
• dougmwne 5y ago
  "Experiences not things" is a reaction against how my parents and other family live their lives. They don't have carefully chosen tools and possessions that maximize their possessions. They have mountains of garbage, huge houses stuffed to the rafters with a lifetime of Walmart shopping. Decaying, worthless, unused trash that can never be thrown away, protected like a dragon's hoard. Minimalism is not a rationalization for urbanism, it's a reaction against our trash-addicted magpie forefathers.
  • tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    Yes, I recently read that the average American home has 300,000 items in it. Having so much stuff isn't helping you experience the world, it is a hindrance to it.
    • cableshaft 5y ago
      If you include every component inside my board game boxes (instead of just counting it as 1 item), I'm sure I've got that beat. Some of them have like 500+ components in a single box.
• throwawaylinux 5y ago
  I find recreational travel to be the height of consumerism. It's massively polluting and wasteful. I do it a bit myself, but I'm not going to pretend I'm better than someone else becausethey wastefully buy different things while I wastefully got to different places.
• glanzwulf 5y ago
  My motto is buy what makes you happy. Some people like going on trips, fancy restaurants, but others like the latest tech, car, etc. Up to you to know what is good for you.
• WhompingWindows 5y ago
  I think this is poorly argued by the author. "Now that even the poor can afford material goods, let’s denigrate goods while highlighting the remaining luxuries that only the affluent can enjoy and show off to their friends." The author turns to classism, claiming that experience-ism is some Rich person's luxury to put down the poor...this sentence comes across as assuming rich people delight in the misfortune of the poor. Further, he casts aside the obvious environmental degradation that the acquisition of things causes, claiming somehow that experiences are all heavily lush and use tons of resources. "The advocates of the new minimalism are, by and large, urban dwellers..." Where is the evidence for this? He's just pulling this out of a hat. Furthermore, he blurs the lines between experiences and things so far to make his entire argument banal. If, as he claims, things lead to experiences, and they're not mutually exclusive, then there's no counter-argument...all experience-ists are actually thing-lovers in disguise, because experiences rely on things to occur. This is like saying "everything is a thing, so experiences are a thing, check-mate". To me, the author decided on the clickbait title, then wrote a few meager, one-sided points which don't hold water.
• mdip 5y ago
  I've thought about this a lot while debating a new purchase that I have a few months to sit on. The author hit the nail on the head with this: > But what this rationalization ignores is the extent to which tools and possessions enable new experiences. The opening paragraph mentions a Lambghini as being a poor buying choice because "it'll fade into the background" after a few weeks. I think back to my first car, a LeBaron Convertable that I bought with cash at seventeen. Considering where I live, owning a car for the first time was something that enabled experiences that I couldn't have had without it. The car, itself, faded into the background, but the experiences it enabled me to have did not. But there are some "things" that are new experiences on their own and don't fade into background if using them is something that brings you joy. About a decade ago, I purchased my first motorcycle. I fall into a little bit of depression when the weather turns to winter, stressing over the fact that it'll be months before I'll be back on it. Back to the purchase I'm thinking about, now. I own a Future Motion OneWheel Pint. I purchased it more than two years ago. Over the last two years, if it's not snowing, I'm riding it every day. I ride almost the exact same route on this thing every time I'm on it. I'm using it for the experience of riding it and because the device offers so much to me as a rider, as I get better at mastering it, I experience new things. It is so much fun to use, in fact, that I'm looking at getting an upgraded version of the same board. I'd like to have longer range and slightly higher speed, but more importantly, I'd like to be able to ride with other members of my family at the same time on the same devices rather than fight with them over "who's taking the bike". For me, I'm using this approach from now on: "prioritize purchasing things that are experiences on their own to use (my OneWheel), followed by things that enable new experiences (my car), followed by things that free up time to do the things I want to do, instead (my lawn care services)"
• BLanen 5y ago
  Pure ideology. Can't even think of actions outside of individual consumerism.
• ravishi 5y ago
  Becoming a parent (and maybe the pandemic?) just flipped this switch for me. I had been getting more and more invested in minimalism and the buy experiences not things vibe when all of a sudden everything changed and now I'm happy with many of the things listed in OP. I'm not going out to bars half of my nights. I can't even remember the last time I went to a bar. I have my beers at home, in the comfort of my living room. All of a sudden I want more space, a bigger house, a backyard. A nicer, bigger, safer car. It's just that my situation has changed.
  • kiliantics 5y ago
    During the pandemic I moved into a <400 sq ft apartment with my partner and we love it. Comme ci comme ca. Also, please don't get a bigger car, they are usually less safe, often for the occupants and definitely for the people outside.
    • ravishi 5y ago
      Don't worry, I'm not getting anything that big.
  • JKCalhoun 5y ago
    As a kid, I treasured the family vacations more than anything else. Don't neglect that.
  • BeFlatXIII 5y ago
    It's cheaper to enjoy beers in your living room than at a bar, too.
  • tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    >All of a sudden I want more space, a bigger house, a backyard. A nicer, bigger, safer car. Which is appealing but they all come with a price. Part of that price might include longer hours, working a job you don't like or an extended commute. None of that is good for your relationship with your kids.
• mcs_ 5y ago
  I decided to buy a motorcycle. I quickly realized I wanted to learn more about how to drive. I went to a top-rated school for motorcycles just to make sure I could take experience from the best. I came back and bought a better motorcycle, I decide to participate in my local championship in which I end up in third place. I sold the Ducati. I decided to buy a company. I quickly realized I want to learn more about how to sell products. ... So, I guess my life is a continuous oscillation between ignorance and satisfaction.
• jplr8922 5y ago
  In my view, 'experiences' (time) are alway related to 'things' (assets) : - The experience of sleep requires a bed - The experience of cooking requires groceries and kitchen tools - The experience of being an elite requires a fancy diploma And if the experience does not requires an asset, it is usually because you are borrowing (lending) the asset of another party - The experience of consulting a psyghologist requires him to have a diploma - The experience of traveling requires the airline business to maintain a fleet - The experience of creating a startup to change the world requires borrowed equity at a given rate I plan to discuss this stuff in my upcoming newsletter about personal finance. People who are all about 'buying experiences not things' are usually priviledged hot heads whose social and professional situation allow them pay high borrowing fees in order to not deal with the logistic of managing their own assets.
• nautilius 5y ago
  Wow, Harold Lee destroys that strawman! A few years back, maybe after reading Marie Kondo, I started the trivial addition of 'do I need this, or do I just want this' whenever I was thinking about buying something. Sounds stupid, but there were surprisingly many things (wow, that jacket?) that I really did not need. I did pass on a signed Elon Musk biography, though, which I regret to this day ;-) That Lambo the author riffs about in the article? Absolutely an experience to be bought, if the money was there.
• Tycho 5y ago
  I remember someone told me they always buy a T-shirt when they're away on a trip somewhere. Something local themed. That way whenever, years later, they pull it out of their wardrobe, it stirs some good memories. Started doing this myself.
• oxplot 5y ago
  Taking this one step further: buy tools to make things that enable experiences.
• hosh 5y ago
  Back when I was solo and practicing minimalism, I didn't buy many things and I didn't buy experiences just to have something to buy. There were experiences, some of which involved monetary exchanges, and many that did not. It's not really about what you buy, but being mindful and present to the experience you are having. So for me, the minimalism helps reveal that by limiting the distraction from the process of buying and consuming things.
• EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago
  We are at the point where we really have enough things and enough "experiences", so we don't know what to want next. Sex used to be an important driving force, but that fades out too ...
• MarkusWandel 5y ago
  There is an event horizon for experiences, at least in my brain. I'm a photo hoarder, and the photos are well organized too. I also hoard old emails and anything else that captures my life's experiences. Something that happened 5 years ago is "recent". Something that happened 10 years ago is getting iffy. 20 years ago is so disconnected from the present that only skeletal memories remain, and even old pictures and writeups don't have the same impact. It is possible to buy things that still give joy after 20 years. They don't have to be fancy. I have a particular Makita handheld electric drill (not the cordless variety!) that was the most pleasant to use electric drill I ever experienced after buying one 25+ years ago. Two others I showed it to immediately got their own. And that thing still works, and still gives me joy.
• vmception 5y ago
  There is almost something thoughtful here, it would be better off without the conclusion. Blog posts are often just comments hiding from a reply mechanism and this is one of them. It is an insightful observation that experiences can be empty and forgetful and thats a great conversation, it is almost insightful that people with prime inner city apartments are the ones doing it because they have no space for consumptive things while ignoring the greater discussion there.
• quixoticaxolotl 5y ago
  "Buy assets, not indulgences" is so much more accurate and catchy, imo.
• dirtyid 5y ago
  As someone with poor episodic memory, but I personally value things but still go out of the way for experiences that involve others who are better at recounting said experiences down the road.
• SergeAx 5y ago
  Not sold, sorry. I have a very good electric drill. Made in Germany, hammer function, Pobedit bits. For the last 3 years I've used it mostly to make holes in leather belts, about once a quarter. Because I don't have a "well stoked toolshed" with leather-hole-punching-tool among others, it seems. Last week I needed to do some small maintainance and found out it wold be better done with a ratchet wrench. I ordered it online and they brought it in an hour. That's what "living in a prime location" means. It also often comes with an ability to earn a prime salary and calling a specialist to do things like hanging paintings, fixing electric sockets and so on, while I may have an experience of walking with a friend in a nearby park. I really prefer that lifestyle. Alas that wrench will collect dust in the closet for the next year at least. But I beleive that with stunts like one hour delivery we (as in "humanity") will eventually come to one hour rentals of things, so we will be able to spend even more on experiences. Can't wait for these times.
• car 5y ago
  If we really want to live a minimalist life, then forget about throwing away boxes of stuff, and focus on downsizing education, real estate, and healthcare. If you have a functional kitchen and a home gym (or tennis rackets or cross-country skis), you might reduce your dependence on healthcare. This part of the thesis is really twisted thinking. It exemplifies how healthcare is just an afterthought in certain places, until people become affected by the desolate condition of the US healthcare system themselves. I gather it's because in general healthy younger people don't think much about the ones that are disabled or have been hit with a health crisis (accident[0], cancer, psychosis). At that point the reflective reaction I see is to appeal to others (e.g. GoFundMe). I'd rather people think about and work towards having a health care system that shares the burden across the whole population. Edit: Adding this for context [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30058108 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30058108
• jaredcwhite 5y ago
  I think both arguments are at extreme ends of a spectrum, and I'm probably somewhat moderate on the point now. I too was once super into the minimalism kick, KonMari method, etc., but I eventually realized that it had simply become its own form of limiting dogma. Perhaps the best way to look at it is: pursue only those experiences *and* things which truly enrich your choice of lifestyle. In other words, don't get the fancy car _or_ go on the fancy spiritual retreat or whatever just because it seems cool/trendy/culturally-significant/etc. Ponder carefully how you want to live overall, and then make sure your current lifestyle matches what you decide to buy/do and where you decide to go/live.
• dontparticipate 5y ago
  I think a more meaningful catchphrase that works on both sides of the things vs experiences spectrum is "buy quality, not quantity." My best vacations have also been some of my less expensive, because I spent a lot of time picking and choosing. Likewise, a good pair of shoes or a quality office chair can change your life while a quick Amazon Prime purchase of the same thing can be thrown away quickly. Drinking coffee is an experience that also requires things. It doesn't always require spending a lot more money or even getting a lot more equipment, but a great cup of coffee always involves focusing on the quality and little improvements you can make. I think you'll find any real minimalism practice is more about minimizing low quality things and experiences to allow the things and experiences that remain to be maximally enjoyable.
• PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  I like to think about my spending in terms of whether or not something is an simply an expense or is a "capital expenditure". The latter is anything that will * enable an activity that I think I want to be able to do * reduce my long term expenses * improve my health * be something that brings me immediate and almost tangible joy Any of the above are enough to move it into the "capital expenditure" realm, and more than one is excellent. Expenses covers spending like food (mostly, though some kinds of cooking and eating fit into the above list), utilities, recurrent spending that I could imagine just doing without (Netflix), most conversations with professionals. It also covers equipment with a defined and relatively short life - a new bike is capital expenditure, but the tires are just expenses. A new water heater is capital expenditure (since presumably the old one has issues), but the energy to run it is an expense. A new pair of gloves that keep my hands toasty at 12k ft (4000m) in winter is a capital expenditure, but the laundry soap to clean them, and the nitrile gloves I use when doing oil changes are just expenses. Obviously, many things fall between the cracks, but in general I find it useful to try to sort spending into these two categories before deciding on its value.
• anotherevan 5y ago
  The reason the happiness from a Lamborghini doesn't last, and the thinking behind experiences generally being superior than possessions has some roots in hedonic adaptation. Basically a tendency for people "to quickly return to a relatively stable level of happiness despite major positive or negative events or life changes." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
• endigma 5y ago
  Perhaps you should buy a thing: Working server
• env123 5y ago
  The correct answer is BUY THINGS AND/OR EXPERIENCES, so long as you can afford