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Interesting to see such a representation of Windows. My experience is that the only places where devs are using Windows is when it's mandatory, but when offere

Interesting to see such a representation of Windows. My experience is that the only places where devs are using Windows is when it's mandatory, but when offered a choice, you end up with a 50/50 split Linux/MacOS +/- 25% depending on the company culture. And even when Windows is mandatory, most devs try to find escape hatches like WSL2 or a VM

cxcorp 5y ago
I'm not sure it's fair to call WSL2 an escape hatch. I use Windows for work because I like the more polished experience of the desktop, but I can just open up a Windows terminal instance and I've got a linux shell (via WSL2). And best of all, I can access the files directly with `explorer.exe .` if I need to.
- executesorder66 5y ago
  WSL2 is literally a whole OS shipped alongside windows. (with nice integration done by the windows devs) Regardless of the implementation, the fact that you have to use it in the first place instead of native windows tools speaks volumes about how useless windows is for development. I can not fathom how anyone can consider it anything other than an "escape hatch".
  - beej71 5y ago
    For the type of work I do, Linux or Mac or WSL works. My preference also falls in that order, but WSL really does make Windows pretty painless for me. Now if they just ditch it all for Linux+WINE, that'd be great. ;-)
  - trhoad 5y ago
    Strictly speaking, it's not a "whole OS shipped alongside windows". It's an interop layer to allow you to interact with GNU based operating systems from Windows. Linux (or Debian etc.) is the OS.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  I use KDE for the more-polished experience on the desktop: https://imgur.com/a/7FOZkdk https://imgur.com/a/7FOZkdk I have the Zsh terminal directly in the file explorer (slightly hidden in the screenshot), and also the KDE text editor (Kate). With the tab completion in Zsh, I often find it faster to navigate with "cd w-a/s/m/r/c/e/as<TAB><ENTER>" to go to "/home/symbiote/Workspace/work-app/src/main/resources/com/example/assets" than by clicking. I also use KDE for the wide range of configuration options. From scratch, it takes me about 5 minutes to go through all the settings to put everything as I like it -- of course, this is only necessary on a completely new system, e.g. at a new job. On the screenshot, I think the only visible change from default is the ^^ and vv buttons next to minimize/maximize, which are "Keep this window above/below" toggles. Invisible things are mostly keyboard shortcuts for moving windows around, mouse behaviour, auto-starting apps etc.
dagw 5y ago
My experience is that the only places where devs are using Windows is when it's mandatory That is a very narrow (dare I say Silicon Valley) view of the world. I know tons of developers who love Visual Studio and cannot imagine programming without it. Plus there is a whole world of developers out there happily writing and shipping software that runs natively only on Windows.
- alfiedotwtf 5y ago
  I've found the opposite - with the companies I've worked for (all Australian) in the past 10 years, there's been a total of 5 developers I know of who ran Windows (and that's including a person who used to work at Microsoft).
- pjc50 5y ago
  Indeed. It depends what you're doing. Web development, yes, I can see why you'd want a UNIXy system for that. But a lot of the enterprise is Windows-first and if you want a desktop app, that's what you'd develop on. If you're doing embedded development you may have a choice of exactly one operating system with the manufacturer's toolchain. Do not underestimate the power of full Visual Studio. It's a bit bloated, and it's even slower with Resharper, but if you're working in C# it will do a lot for you.
- herbst 5y ago
  Swiss here, in my work experience only part of the management used windows. I also know some small shops enforcing it, but I don't know any dev who uses it because he wants to.
- diminish 5y ago
  As an observation, especially in the 3rd world, and "3rd tier business" I think Windows is the dominant operating system.
  - toastal 5y ago
    Which some are still running XP. These are the places that could benefit the most from Linux or BSD to keep that hardware running as long as possible.
0xcoffee 5y ago
C# still has a large mind-share in enterprise. And while it's net core is cross platform these days, Visual Studio (Windows) is still the preferred way of working for many.
kodemager 5y ago
In decades of software development in Danish enterprise and smaller companies I’ve never worked in a place that didn’t use windows. I don’t think I’ve worked in a place where using WSL wouldn’t be more of an administrative hassle than it was worth either. Windows isn’t such a bad place to develop these days, depending on what you’re developing of course, but I’ve never had issue using Python, dotnet (as in the cli, not visual studio) or anything related to typescript or node in general. I don’t particularly like using windows. I can’t tell you why, I used to like it, but I haven’t since I switched from 7 to 10. Which is sort of ironic considering that developing on windows has gotten much better with windows 10, but well, it’s probably just my personal opinion. So I actually often work on things on my personal Mac, which is sort of easy in todays environment if most of your assets live in the cloud which ours do. But I don’t mind using windows, about the only thing that annoys me these days is that you use “cd” instead of “ls” in the non shell terminal.
- cookieswumchorr 5y ago
  something is rotten in the state of Denmark /s
- mrweasel 5y ago
  Danmark is very much still Windows first country for developers. Macs are showing up more and more and a few can use Linux. The thing is, those companies I know who allow their developer to use Linux, provides their employees with two computers, a Linux developer workstation, and a Windows machine for "other stuff". I have the same issue with defining exactly why I don't like Windows. Part of the issue is my hand cramps up when I use it, but I don't know why. Windows seems sluggish, but people who measure these things says that it's not.
- japanuspus 5y ago
  Re. everything is Windows in Denmark, my understanding (backed by a few acquaintances as MS) is that Denmark is being actively pursued as a test-marked by Microsoft: It is a sufficiently advanced market that they can get everything tested, and sufficiently small that they can sell at loss without large expenses. My experience working in a large Danish Corp. is that you need a really good reason before you can get a non-Windows machine, and if you do you still need a Windows machine on the side. Still, coming from a decade of OS X and GNU/Linux, Windows was actually surprisingly workable as a development environment.
chupasaurus 5y ago
WSL2 is a Hyper-V VM.
mastazi 5y ago
I've heard that the situation you describe is common in Silicon Valley. Based on my personal experience in Sydney, Australia, the distribution is about a 40/40/10% Win/Mac/Linux. I've seen about the same amount of companies giving either Mac or Windows as the default, and almost always people can request a different OS if there is a specific need. In all other countries where I've worked (Italy, Thailand, Indonesia, Brazil) it's more like 80% Windows. I'm basing this on my direct experience in companies I've worked at, I don't have statistical data.
d--b 5y ago
Windows has a market share of 75%. A vast majority of companies use Windows as OS, cause the computers are cheaper, and most people are used to it. Why would windows be not used by developers? The .net environment is _really_ good these days, and Visual Studio is a top notch IDE. Even within SV, lots of companies are running Windows desktops. I actually find it surprising that Linux and MacOs are so well represented.
- pooper 5y ago
  Visual Studio Professional is more expensive than Jetbrains Rider which was surprising for me to learn.
MMAesawy 5y ago
I willingly use Windows. It's what I'm most familiar with, and I prefer the much nicer desktop environment where things "just work" a lot more. Anything I absolutely need to do in Linux will usually have a workaround in Windows (especially with WSL).
dobin 5y ago
Just need a UI to start Chrome and Visual Studio Code. Have WSL for SSH into Linux servers.
- pooper 5y ago
  I've played with visual studio code ssh remote development with angular and it is relatively painless to set up for debugging with Firefox. Give it a shot if you'd like.
mrweasel 5y ago
Really? I'm more surprised that so many are on Linux. I think that says a lot about who's on HN, as in "corporate developers" aren't on HN.
- JustinGarrison 5y ago
  I’m a developer at Amazon and was at Disney before (both very corporate environments). In both companies I run Linux on my laptop/desktop as my primary development machine.
wongarsu 5y ago
We give everyone free choice and see more of a 60/30/10 split between Windows/Linux/MacOS. We're in Europe.
GlennS 5y ago
I think tech culture is just very segregated. By contrast I'd never seen a developer use a Mac until a few years ago except maybe a few people at conferences. Then the past few jobs I've had have all been Mac-dominant.
ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
I suspect that it’s mandatory, quite frequently. I’d bet it would be a majority, in other communities. I’m not surprised to see Linux so well-represented (in this crowd). I’m wondering if Unix folks pick that, too, or just don’t participate.
flohofwoe 5y ago
Game development is happening pretty much exclusively on Windows.
spdionis 5y ago
Just as an anecdote, I'm forced to use macOS but I wish I could use Windows. edit: with wsl of course
amelius 5y ago
As Apple execs have an agenda of turning developers into low wage gig-workers, I'd run to Windows.

cxcorp 5y ago

I'm not sure it's fair to call WSL2 an escape hatch. I use Windows for work because I like the more polished experience of the desktop, but I can just open up a Windows terminal instance and I've got a linux shell (via WSL2). And best of all, I can access the files directly with `explorer.exe .` if I need to.

executesorder66 5y ago
WSL2 is literally a whole OS shipped alongside windows. (with nice integration done by the windows devs) Regardless of the implementation, the fact that you have to use it in the first place instead of native windows tools speaks volumes about how useless windows is for development. I can not fathom how anyone can consider it anything other than an "escape hatch".
- beej71 5y ago
  For the type of work I do, Linux or Mac or WSL works. My preference also falls in that order, but WSL really does make Windows pretty painless for me. Now if they just ditch it all for Linux+WINE, that'd be great. ;-)
- trhoad 5y ago
  Strictly speaking, it's not a "whole OS shipped alongside windows". It's an interop layer to allow you to interact with GNU based operating systems from Windows. Linux (or Debian etc.) is the OS.
Symbiote 5y ago
I use KDE for the more-polished experience on the desktop: https://imgur.com/a/7FOZkdk https://imgur.com/a/7FOZkdk I have the Zsh terminal directly in the file explorer (slightly hidden in the screenshot), and also the KDE text editor (Kate). With the tab completion in Zsh, I often find it faster to navigate with "cd w-a/s/m/r/c/e/as<TAB><ENTER>" to go to "/home/symbiote/Workspace/work-app/src/main/resources/com/example/assets" than by clicking. I also use KDE for the wide range of configuration options. From scratch, it takes me about 5 minutes to go through all the settings to put everything as I like it -- of course, this is only necessary on a completely new system, e.g. at a new job. On the screenshot, I think the only visible change from default is the ^^ and vv buttons next to minimize/maximize, which are "Keep this window above/below" toggles. Invisible things are mostly keyboard shortcuts for moving windows around, mouse behaviour, auto-starting apps etc.

dagw 5y ago

My experience is that the only places where devs are using Windows is when it's mandatory That is a very narrow (dare I say Silicon Valley) view of the world. I know tons of developers who love Visual Studio and cannot imagine programming without it. Plus there is a whole world of developers out there happily writing and shipping software that runs natively only on Windows.

alfiedotwtf 5y ago
I've found the opposite - with the companies I've worked for (all Australian) in the past 10 years, there's been a total of 5 developers I know of who ran Windows (and that's including a person who used to work at Microsoft).
pjc50 5y ago
Indeed. It depends what you're doing. Web development, yes, I can see why you'd want a UNIXy system for that. But a lot of the enterprise is Windows-first and if you want a desktop app, that's what you'd develop on. If you're doing embedded development you may have a choice of exactly one operating system with the manufacturer's toolchain. Do not underestimate the power of full Visual Studio. It's a bit bloated, and it's even slower with Resharper, but if you're working in C# it will do a lot for you.
herbst 5y ago
Swiss here, in my work experience only part of the management used windows. I also know some small shops enforcing it, but I don't know any dev who uses it because he wants to.
diminish 5y ago
As an observation, especially in the 3rd world, and "3rd tier business" I think Windows is the dominant operating system.
- toastal 5y ago
  Which some are still running XP. These are the places that could benefit the most from Linux or BSD to keep that hardware running as long as possible.

0xcoffee 5y ago

C# still has a large mind-share in enterprise. And while it's net core is cross platform these days, Visual Studio (Windows) is still the preferred way of working for many.

kodemager 5y ago

In decades of software development in Danish enterprise and smaller companies I’ve never worked in a place that didn’t use windows. I don’t think I’ve worked in a place where using WSL wouldn’t be more of an administrative hassle than it was worth either. Windows isn’t such a bad place to develop these days, depending on what you’re developing of course, but I’ve never had issue using Python, dotnet (as in the cli, not visual studio) or anything related to typescript or node in general. I don’t particularly like using windows. I can’t tell you why, I used to like it, but I haven’t since I switched from 7 to 10. Which is sort of ironic considering that developing on windows has gotten much better with windows 10, but well, it’s probably just my personal opinion. So I actually often work on things on my personal Mac, which is sort of easy in todays environment if most of your assets live in the cloud which ours do. But I don’t mind using windows, about the only thing that annoys me these days is that you use “cd” instead of “ls” in the non shell terminal.

cookieswumchorr 5y ago
something is rotten in the state of Denmark /s
mrweasel 5y ago
Danmark is very much still Windows first country for developers. Macs are showing up more and more and a few can use Linux. The thing is, those companies I know who allow their developer to use Linux, provides their employees with two computers, a Linux developer workstation, and a Windows machine for "other stuff". I have the same issue with defining exactly why I don't like Windows. Part of the issue is my hand cramps up when I use it, but I don't know why. Windows seems sluggish, but people who measure these things says that it's not.
japanuspus 5y ago
Re. everything is Windows in Denmark, my understanding (backed by a few acquaintances as MS) is that Denmark is being actively pursued as a test-marked by Microsoft: It is a sufficiently advanced market that they can get everything tested, and sufficiently small that they can sell at loss without large expenses. My experience working in a large Danish Corp. is that you need a really good reason before you can get a non-Windows machine, and if you do you still need a Windows machine on the side. Still, coming from a decade of OS X and GNU/Linux, Windows was actually surprisingly workable as a development environment.

chupasaurus 5y ago

WSL2 is a Hyper-V VM.

mastazi 5y ago

I've heard that the situation you describe is common in Silicon Valley. Based on my personal experience in Sydney, Australia, the distribution is about a 40/40/10% Win/Mac/Linux. I've seen about the same amount of companies giving either Mac or Windows as the default, and almost always people can request a different OS if there is a specific need. In all other countries where I've worked (Italy, Thailand, Indonesia, Brazil) it's more like 80% Windows. I'm basing this on my direct experience in companies I've worked at, I don't have statistical data.

d--b 5y ago

Windows has a market share of 75%. A vast majority of companies use Windows as OS, cause the computers are cheaper, and most people are used to it. Why would windows be not used by developers? The .net environment is _really_ good these days, and Visual Studio is a top notch IDE. Even within SV, lots of companies are running Windows desktops. I actually find it surprising that Linux and MacOs are so well represented.

pooper 5y ago
Visual Studio Professional is more expensive than Jetbrains Rider which was surprising for me to learn.

MMAesawy 5y ago

I willingly use Windows. It's what I'm most familiar with, and I prefer the much nicer desktop environment where things "just work" a lot more. Anything I absolutely need to do in Linux will usually have a workaround in Windows (especially with WSL).

dobin 5y ago

Just need a UI to start Chrome and Visual Studio Code. Have WSL for SSH into Linux servers.

pooper 5y ago
I've played with visual studio code ssh remote development with angular and it is relatively painless to set up for debugging with Firefox. Give it a shot if you'd like.

mrweasel 5y ago

Really? I'm more surprised that so many are on Linux. I think that says a lot about who's on HN, as in "corporate developers" aren't on HN.

JustinGarrison 5y ago
I’m a developer at Amazon and was at Disney before (both very corporate environments). In both companies I run Linux on my laptop/desktop as my primary development machine.

wongarsu 5y ago

We give everyone free choice and see more of a 60/30/10 split between Windows/Linux/MacOS. We're in Europe.

GlennS 5y ago

I think tech culture is just very segregated. By contrast I'd never seen a developer use a Mac until a few years ago except maybe a few people at conferences. Then the past few jobs I've had have all been Mac-dominant.

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago

I suspect that it’s mandatory, quite frequently. I’d bet it would be a majority, in other communities. I’m not surprised to see Linux so well-represented (in this crowd). I’m wondering if Unix folks pick that, too, or just don’t participate.

flohofwoe 5y ago

Game development is happening pretty much exclusively on Windows.

spdionis 5y ago

Just as an anecdote, I'm forced to use macOS but I wish I could use Windows. edit: with wsl of course

amelius 5y ago

As Apple execs have an agenda of turning developers into low wage gig-workers, I'd run to Windows.